5. What assessment has the Counsel General made of the impact that Brexit will have on the availability of legal aid? OAQ54209

Legal aid provision is the responsibility of the UK Government and has been subject to substantial cuts since the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 was introduced. We are concerned that the economic damage of Brexit may result in further cuts, which would further impede access to justice.

I thank you for that. But since that introduction of legal aid cuts by the Westminster Government over six years ago, the number of parents having to represent themselves now in child custody cases has more than doubled. Many families simply cannot afford to pay for legal representation, and are having to navigate complex issues alone without any understanding of that law. This, of course, is putting tremendous pressure on families and campaigners have said, and I quote,

'children's best interests are being "obscured"'.

Brexit has the potential to affect every aspect of life in the UK, including the UK's legal framework. Therefore, Counsel General, what discussions have you had with the UK Government about how Brexit will impact families who currently qualify for legal aid in the family court?

I thank the Member for throwing light on what is a very, very difficult issue. I think she's absolutely right to identify the serious risk, in my view, that the range of consequences of Brexit will put pressure on families across Wales. I think from a legal aid perspective, we are concerned that, particularly with the economic impact of a 'no deal' Brexit, that would put even further pressure on public resources to fund legal aid. Clearly, we know how significant the cuts have been to date, and even further pressure on those budgets would be a disaster.

But there's also the issue of the pressure that those cuts are placing on public services that are themselves under pressure, and that could certainly intensify in the context of Brexit. She talks about the family courts in particular, and I think we need to recognise that the pressures on families of the uncertainty caused by Brexit even now, together with the possible loss of employment and so on, is going, I think, to become a serious issue. It's one of the things we are considering at the moment in Government: how we can address some of those pressures outside the context of legal aid.

I would also say to the Member, though, that if we were to leave the European Union with no deal, that would put the question of civil judicial co-operation within the EU under serious pressure, and the Law Society and others have been advising lawyers about steps they can take in that particular context. We recognise the pressure that organisations are under to provide advice to individuals in this sort of situation, and she will know, of course, that we have provided funding for a number of organisations, and in particular in the context of Brexit to give legal advice around immigration status, so that EU citizens are able to take full advantage of their rights and apply for EU settled status here in Wales.

Minister, Brexit tends to generate far more heat than light these days, with rumours and claims and counter-claims swirling around, and I think it behoves us all to try to learn the realities that are there on the ground. Our parliamentary colleagues in Westminster—there's a group called the Young Legal Aid Lawyers who have taken some 45 Members with them, out shadowing them, out on the ground doing legal aid, really understanding what the issues are that are facing them, and the challenges ahead with Brexit and for families, no matter what the outcome may be. Members of that group include, for example, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State with responsibility for legal aid and the shadow Secretary of State for Wales. Would you consider supporting this group and perhaps trying to bring just such an initiative here to Wales so that we may also go out and learn that reality?

I thank the Member for that question and for the way in which she presented it, if I may say, and I share the sentiment that she started the question with. I would be very happy to look at the work of that group and see how I can support their work or get engaged with what they are doing. I'd be very happy to look into that, and I thank her for making that suggestion.