2. Will the First Minister make a statement on how the Welsh Government promotes a children's rights-based approach when working with non-devolved bodies? OAQ54290

I thank the Member for that question. The Welsh Government encourages all public bodies to take a children’s rights approach to their work. We stand ready to support any non-devolved body through comprehensive information and training.

Diolch. I'm very grateful to the First Minister for his answer. There was a joint meeting last week of the cross-party group on violence against women and girls and the cross-party group on violence against children, looking at the family courts and the work that CAFCASS are doing. It was very encouraging to hear how CAFCASS Cymru are beginning to take a much more child's rights-based approach in how they deal with preparing reports for family courts. However, it was very concerning to hear from women whose families have been through that experience the extent to which the family courts sometimes ignore CAFCASS's advice, don't appear to understand how important the voice of the child is in deciding issues around, for example, custody, with children very often being asked their opinions, their opinions being, from their perspective, disregarded, though, of course, it may be what the child wants is not necessarily always best for the child. There were some real concerns expressed in that room by professionals and by women alike that the family court service does not really understand the impact of domestic violence on children and how children should be encouraged to get their voices effectively heard. Can I ask the First Minister today to do some further work with the Counsel General to try to ensure that the appropriate approach that CAFCASS Wales is beginning to take to the experience of children who go through domestic abuse is also reflected and that the family courts are much more aware of the long-term impact of domestic abuse on children and how they can express their views?

Llywydd, can I thank Helen Mary Jones for those very important points? The operation of the family courts in Wales is something that we rightly take an interest in here. My understanding is that the justice commission, chaired by Lord Thomas, has taken an increasing interest in its work in the operation of the family courts and that we can look to the report, which we expect in the autumn, to give us some advice on the relationship between the Welsh Government and family courts here in Wales. Helen Mary, I know, will be aware of the fact that the UK Government has recently announced a review of the family justice system, and the panel announced by the Ministry of Justice has not had a Welsh representative on it. So, I've written to the Secretary of State, urging him to make good that gap because there are aspects of the devolved settlement that mean that the work of the family courts directly has to rely on matters that are devolved here in Wales, including CAFCASS Cymru, and it's right that that review should be properly informed by all the work that goes on here in Wales. So, I entirely agree with what the Member said. I'm very happy to talk to the Counsel General. I want to provide her with an assurance that there are already actions being taken to make sure that our children's rights approach is fully communicated to non-devolved bodies when they operate here in Wales.

First Minister, 'The Right Way: A Children’s Rights Approach' includes the need to enhance children's capabilities as individuals so they're better able to take advantage of their own rights. This, of course, includes article 3 of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, which states that the best interest of the child must be a top priority in all decisions and actions that affect children. Now, as Members, we've all received an e-mail from the Cross Keys Silver Band about the law requiring a licence for child performers. Locally, this is impacting on local musical bands who've also contacted me, and I've been approached by a number of parents too, very concerned. Now, your Welsh Government response is to liaise with local authorities to identify whether more can be done to make the process more consistent without jeopardising the safety of the child. This is obviously welcome, but it is true that the actual licence requirements would be, actually, quite a barrier to children joining these bands. So, will you consider the impact of the current licence on children's rights and, in doing so, whether organisations such as a brass band, which enhances the life advantages for our younger persons, whether there could be a more common-sense approach but whilst also keeping our children safe?

I thank Janet for that question and for drawing attention to the children's commissioner's 'The Right Way' document. It does, I think, provide a useful framework to support public services to embed children's rights in the way that they go about their responsibilities. I'm alert to the point that she makes about brass bands. I've already had an opportunity to discuss it with the Minister for Education. It's a matter of striking the right balance in just the way that the questioner put it. Of course we want to make sure that children are properly protected, that the right provision is in place, that when children are entrusted to the care of any organisation, parents can be confident that those children will be safe and properly looked after. But it does need to be proportionate to the task in hand.

Brass bands play a really important part in so many communities here in Wales, and children who take part in them get a fantastic experience as a result. Nothing that the Welsh Government wants to do is about putting extra barriers in the path of children's participation. It's why we want to make sure we've learnt from local authorities, and we will definitely be keeping a close look on the arrangements to make sure that they do what we want them to do—to help to keep children safe— and don't do what we don't want them to do, which is to be a barrier to children taking part in such a rich part of Wales's heritage.