Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:03 pm on 17 September 2019.
I hope the selectors of the Clwyd West Conservative Party found that more informative than the rest of us in this Chamber did. The Member talks about a 'no deal' Brexit with a kind of equanimity that I think most of us on these benches find really very disturbing. He purports to care about the statistics in relation to access to Government-funded services and the contributions that we've made to resilience. I don't believe for a second that that is a genuine set of enquiries, but I'm happy to answer some of the questions.
He talks about honouring the referendum. What about honouring the promises that were made to people in 2016? Let's start with that. Let's start with the promises that trade deals would be a walk in the park and yet we're now in a position where we've normalised the idea of walking away from a trade network, which would cripple parts of our economy, and parts of this Chamber regard that as perfectly acceptable. It's a disgrace.
He talks about an attempt to create panic. The Government that he supports in Westminster has revealed their planning assumptions. That is a Government that's content to proceed to a 'no deal' Brexit despite the stark illustration in that document of the damage that would be caused—[Interruption.] He mutters from a sedentary position that that is a worst-case scenario—[Interruption.] If he listens, he'll get the replies. That is a document that shows what a reasonable person's assessment is of how bad things can get.
If not all of that happens, what is he prepared to tolerate going wrong in that list of things? Is it electricity prices going up? Is it civil unrest? Is it low-income groups being disproportionately affected by price rises? Is it delays to medicine supplies? What of that is he prepared to tolerate as he describes with complete calmness the prospect of a 'no deal' Brexit? We are taking steps that are proportionate in the face of that kind of threat to mitigate, as best we can, the damage on Wales. But let's be absolutely categorical: no amount of preparation, however effective, however collaborative, can begin to touch some of the damage that is described in that document, and he should focus on that rather than the synthetic anger that he's demonstrated today.
And just to be clear, we do believe the UK Government should pay its debts. We do believe the UK Government should pay its debts. These are contributions to current programmes, to current commitments to the European Union, and he treads a very dangerous path indeed if, in a world where he thinks we should be negotiating new trade deals, he's prepared to trash the UK's reputation by walking away from its obligations.