Questions now from the party spokespeople. The first question from the Conservative spokesperson, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. This morning, Minister, I met Hope Rescue centre. After meeting them, it highlighted the importance around puppy farming and the regulations around puppy farming. And many of us are aware, obviously, of the BBC programme that shamed, I would suggest, Wales's image around the rest of the UK, and indeed the world, when we saw such images coming out. The Welsh Government have consulted on Lucy's law, and the proposals within Lucy's law that will go some way to tackling some of the abuses in the puppy breeding industry. I understand that the Welsh Government are in the process of considering those consultations. Can you give us an indication today when you might well be coming forward with some proposals? Because we cannot go on periodically seeing such horrendous images on our tv screens, and hearing first-hand accounts, such as I heard this morning, that do shame Wales.

Thank you. I think we were all absolutely horrified by the documentary that was aired last week. And you're quite right, we did consult early this year in relation to Lucy's law. I had—and I do not know if Members will have seen the written statement that I've issued around this issue—a meeting, the next day, with the Chief Veterinary Officer for Wales, to see what we could do immediately. I think there are several things we can do. I think we need to make sure that local authorities are aware of—. Obviously, they're the enforcement group that need to go to these puppy farms to ensure that the licence requirements are being upheld. So, I've asked the chief veterinary officer to meet with all 22 local authorities. I've personally written to the chief executives to ask them if they can put forward a representative to attend the meeting with the chief veterinary officer. I've asked the animal welfare group to look at the regulations, alongside the consultation responses in relation to Lucy's law.

The chief veterinary officer has also asked the Royal Veterinary College to look at the programme, because, obviously, there are implications around veterinary surgeons also. And I think it's up to individuals as well, if they come across one of these farms, if they go to buy a puppy—. Because the need for puppies seems to be increasing. People seem to be acquiring, and wanting to acquire, puppies much more than usual. So, I think we need to understand why that is also. There's a piece of work that will be going on, but I absolutely agree with you—it was horrific.

Thank you for the agreement on the images; I think any sane person would say the same, Minister. And I offer no criticism of the actions you've taken to date, because they seem to be actions that should be taken: engaging with people who will be involved in the enforcement—local authorities—the profession, i.e. veterinary surgeons, and obviously the puppy-breeding sector itself. I think what people are anxious to understand, given the level of consultation that's gone on around Lucy's law and other proposals that the Government have brought forward, is what timeline the Government is working to to actually implement safeguards and enforcement measures that will bring an end to these horrendous practices? Regrettably, there will always be rogues out there who will always try and circumnavigate the regulations, but, clearly, this is on an industrial scale—this is going on—and, in fact, in the presentation I received this morning, the puppy farm industry sector was calibrated to be about £12 million in Wales alone, which is a huge sum of money, and, when you put that money forward, people will try and beat the regulations. So, what we need to try and understand is that, instead of in six months' time watching the same images or new images on tv or through social media, we have taken action and put the remedial work in place to make sure that we can stamp these practices out. So, on those measures you mentioned to me in you first question, have you a timeline of action in place that will say, 'In two months, in four months, in six months we will be in a far better place'?

In relation to the actions I've taken following the documentary, obviously that is urgent, and we will do that over the next month or so. Certainly, the group will look at the breeding regulations for me very quickly—I would hope by the end of the year. 

In relation to the Lucy's law consultation, I didn't want to get any unintended consequences from that, but, again, I've asked the CVO to look at when we can bring that in much quicker than we'd anticipated due to all the other ongoing work we've got, particularly in relation to Brexit. I am aware that the CVO's office is particularly stretched. So, in relation to a timeline for Lucy's law, I think I will have to write to the Member, but I would hope certainly by the spring. 

Thank you for that indicative timeline, and I look forward to receiving the letter, Minister. One thing that is crystal clear is, sadly, enforcement agencies—and I talk of local authorities here—have been hollowed out over many years, especially in trading standards departments, and whilst we might wish to put regulation in place and laws in place to stamp out this practice, unless they're enforced on the ground, they will be meaningless. In the meeting that the chief veterinary officer will be having with local authorities that you indicated in your first response to me, will the capacity issue be addressed? And will there be an overall assessment of what local authorities can achieve, because I've had it highlighted to me where there is good practice in certain local authorities, and in other local authorities there is no practice at all? And surely what we need is a unified approach so we can get the gold standard across the 22 local authorities that we have here in Wales. So, can you confirm that that will be on the agenda when the chief veterinary officer meets local authority representatives and, above all, the Welsh Government will undertake a piece of work to understand what is required on the enforcement side to make sure that these enforcement rules can be implemented in local authority areas? 

Certainly, the idea of meeting with all 22 local authorities was to find out what they perceive as barriers, for instance, to them being able to enforce. Capacity could be an issue. Obviously, local authorities have had to take some very difficult decisions over the last decade of austerity, but I think we do need to understand what the issues are, and then, I think, from that meeting, we will then decide on what action needs to be taken. So, I'm not saying we would have a review straight away, but, depending on what comes out of that meeting—. I can't remember the date of the meeting, but I think it's within the next month, certainly, that the CVO will be meeting all 22 local authorities, because I want to hear from them the difficulties—if there are difficulties—and what we don't want is a postcode lottery. So, as you say, it's absolutely right that we get some parity across those 22 local authorities. 

The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Llyr Gruffydd. 

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Minister, back in 2013, when the former rural affairs Minister, Alun Davies, maxed out on the modulation, if you remember, taking the maximum 15 per cent out of pillar 1 into pillar 2, it was touted at the time as something that would lead to, in his words, 'transformational change'. Has it?      

I think we have seen some change. Is it transformational? I don't think we've perhaps seen the change that we would want in some areas. I don't think you can generalise and say sweepingly—. It's something I'm actually considering whether we take forward, because, post Brexit, I'll certainly be in a position to look at that. But I think it's really important that we work with the farming unions. I know they were unhappy with it back in 2013. It's something that is constantly raised with me and I think we need to look at it in the whole. 

So, five years later, you're not sure; you don't know. Maybe that suggests that somebody needs to do a piece of work looking at the use of that particular money, because farmers were, of course, told, at the time, that the money taken out from their direct payments would actually come back to them through the rural development programme. The reality, of course, is very different, because we've seen how the programme budget reduced significantly in 2016, from £956 million, as a result of amending the rate of domestic co-financing provided by the Welsh Government, to what is now a total budget of £828 million for the programme period, of course, which ends next year.

Now, worse still, as of the end of August this year, you've only spent 41 per cent of the total RDP budget. So, having picked the pockets of Welsh farmers on the premise that that money will be maximised in relation to economic development in rural Wales, can you assure everyone that there will be no further erosion of RDP funds by further reductions of the co-financing rate? And do you acknowledge that there is now, at this late stage, a very real risk that your Government will fail to spend the budget effectively and in full?

Well, I certainly don't want to see that and that's the discussion I've had with officials. I met with the head of Rural Payments Wales last week just to discuss this very issue. As you know, it's a seven-year programme. The proposals for the remaining activity under the current RDP have been agreed, last December. The proposals will require a modification to the programme. So, they are obviously subject to European Commission approval. But the message I give out is that we must max this money as much as possible, and I certainly don't want that to be a failure.

We must max this out as much as possible—that doesn't sound like a categoric assurance to me that that money will be used in full and effectively. And, of course, the worry is that if the money is late being allocated then, of course, as is very often in other spheres, it's going to be a case of that money being pushed out of the door in blind panic at the end just in order to make sure that the money's spent.

Now, I've written today to the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee, asking that they look at the Welsh Government's handling, and the effectiveness, of RDP funding, especially, of course, in light of comments by National Farmers Union Cymru that their members tell them that, and I quote:

'Opportunities to access RDP funds have been limited for farming businesses, application windows have been sporadic and often under-resourced with applicants turned away. The application and claim process has been complex and costly, with many farmers having to resort to paying advisers and consultants to assist.'

Now these implementation issues, of course, are all firmly under your Government's control, and your 'Sustainable Farming and our Land' proposals are based on quite similar adviser-led approaches. So, will you, as they ask, and as I'm now asking you today, to do—will you urgently commission an independent review of the rural development programme in Wales so that we can learn lessons and have confidence in any new schemes that the Government wish to pursue?

I think it's not the right time to have a review. As you know, we are out to consultation at the moment on 'Sustainable Farming and our Land' and I think people's views around the RDP are something that they can put forward in that consultation, particularly, as you say, when the scheme that we are proposing will use advisers in the way you suggest.

Question 3, Llyr Gruffydd.

I do apologise, Llywydd.

Gathering my thoughts—.