Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

1. Questions to the Minister for Education – in the Senedd at 1:38 pm on 23 October 2019.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:38, 23 October 2019

(Translated)

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Bethan Sayed.

Photo of Bethan Sayed Bethan Sayed Plaid Cymru

Diolch. Minister, the £2 million your Government announced earlier this year for mental health initiatives in university was much needed and welcomed. And you told me in July that this funding was to develop a whole-school approach that would support staff as well as students. But, at the same time, I believe you gave ColegauCymru just £175,000 for the same purpose, with regard to implementing this in further education colleges, despite there being more students in further education than higher education in Wales. How are you ensuring that students who are accessing further education are able to get the same level of support with regard to this particular mental health initiative?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:39, 23 October 2019

The Member is absolutely right—what we're trying to develop in Welsh Government is a whole-system approach to well-being and mental health. In answer to the first questions, you've heard about work we are undertaking in schools. But, obviously, we need to continue that support as individuals make their journey through the education system. Despite constraints on the budget, I am pleased that we were able to make an allocation, both to the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales and to ColegauCymru. Last week, I met with members of ColegauCymru to discuss the need for ongoing support for mental health for FE students, and those discussions also are taking place within Government.

Photo of Bethan Sayed Bethan Sayed Plaid Cymru 1:40, 23 October 2019

Okay, and thank you for that update. When you do have more information, it would be useful to share that, because, of course, I know that the same challenges face FE students and their staff, as they do in HE.

Obviously, one of the reasons universities put forward or campaigned for money for mental health initiatives was due to the work that the National Union of Students did in part of that process, working with the Government on it. And I believe student unions are integral to the life of a university. I'm a former sabbatical officer myself at Aberystwyth University, so I know and I saw and I implemented those particular policies. But many in FE are still not experiencing that student voice or are not able to access that student voice as much as their higher education peers. And while we are going to be reducing the vote to 16—we agree on this—they will need to have access to student support services just as people who are in higher education do. So, could you tell me a bit more about what you potentially could do to ensure that there is more parity of esteem where there can be an enhancement of the student voice in further education institutions? 

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:41, 23 October 2019

Student voice is important at all levels of education, and what we seek to do is increase the ability for students to shape their institutions, whether that be at schools, universities or FE. I'm not so pessimistic as the Member is about the contribution that the NUS members are making to our FE. I was recently at the Graig campus at Coleg Sir Gâr in Llanelli, where we had a very productive meeting with the members of the students' union there, who are very much working in partnership with the senior management team of that college to address matters of concern to the student body in that college, and where, for instance, a very effective campaign on mental health and well-being and a very effective campaign on period poverty and period dignity within the entirety of the campuses that make up that college—. Clearly, we will want to take the opportunity of the post-compulsory education and training Bill to reinforce the importance of student voice in all aspects of post-compulsory education and training. 

Photo of Bethan Sayed Bethan Sayed Plaid Cymru 1:42, 23 October 2019

Thank you for that. Just to clarify, I wasn't saying that they weren't doing their jobs effectively; I was saying they've approached me actually, saying, 'Look, we know we're doing work in further education, but we are struggling because of the patchiness of that', and so it's about how they can be helped to be more effective when they go into those institutions, not to say that they're not trying where they are having access to progressive general managers who want to try and help them. 

My final question is with regard to another matter in relation to—. I raised with you institutional racism in higher education back in July, and I recently met with Cardiff University—this week—and it was a really constructive discussion, about you assuring me that there would be strategic equality plans setting out how they would be able to ensure opportunity for students with protected characteristics and these plans would make changes in terms of how people can take individual incidents of racial harassment or bullying through those institutions.

Today, you may have seen that the Equality and Human Rights Commission report has revealed that 13 per cent of students questioned had experienced racial harassment, rising to 24 per cent—almost a quarter—of students from minority ethnic backgrounds. But universities are often unaware of the true extent of the problem on these campuses, and there are huge discrepancies between the proportion of students experiencing incidents, according to the report, and the number recorded by the universities. What assurances can you give me today that those strategic plans that the universities are expected to do are going to change this? What are you doing to work with the sector to ensure that those voices are heard and that they feel that they're being listened to in any structure? They may not get to a point of reporting it formally, but they want to get to a point where they are believed and they are heard and where they can be engaged in a constructive process for the future of the university system. 

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:44, 23 October 2019

I have indeed seen the report. It's an important piece of work, although it is very depressing reading. Once again we have to remind ourselves that Wales is not immune from issues of racism. More than simply seeing the report, I met with the Equality and Human Rights Commission recently, ahead of its publication, to have an early discussion with them about their expectations of what more Welsh Government can do. This morning, I found myself at Cardiff University and took the opportunity of meeting with representatives of HEFCW and the vast majority of Welsh vice-chancellors, who were also at the same meeting to raise this report, and I can assure the Member, and indeed all Members here, that I, Universities Wales and the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales will want to consider very carefully the recommendations of this report and will want to act on them. One way in which I can do that is including reference in my next remit letter of my expectations on universities and HEFCW to address this point, which I intend to do.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:45, 23 October 2019

(Translated)

Conservative spokesperson, Mohammad Asghar.

Photo of Mohammad Asghar Mohammad Asghar Conservative

Thank you, Madam Presiding Officer. Minister, last year, an independent panel claimed that the issue of teachers' workloads would only be addressed by looking at the wider structure of schooling. They pointed out that the way our schools work—their routines, patterns and systems—have more or less been unchanged since schooling for every child began in Victorian times. Minister, have you seen this report, and what is your response to its call for a commission to be set up to look at whether changing the system of school days, terms and holidays would lead to changes that would relieve the pressure on teaching staff?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat

I have to say, Presiding Officer, it would be helpful if the Member could keep up. That commission was established several months ago under the chairmanship of Mick Waters. It includes headteachers from Wales and school governors from Wales as well as independent experts outside the Welsh education system. 

Photo of Mohammad Asghar Mohammad Asghar Conservative 1:46, 23 October 2019

The National Foundation for Educational Research says that there is an unmet demand from secondary teachers or secondary school teachers wanting to reduce or alter their hours. They estimate that one in six teachers would like to reduce their hours and urge secondary school leaders to do more to accommodate teachers who want to work part-time or flexibly. Minister, can I ask what representations you have received on this matter and what guidance you have issued to schools with regard to part-time and flexible working, the lack of which is an important factor in some teachers leaving the profession in Wales?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:47, 23 October 2019

I've not received any representation from the teaching unions about the specifics that the Member mentions around part-time and flexible working, although workload issues in general are a standing item on the agenda every time I meet with the teaching unions. The flexibility that the Member just highlighted is indeed one of the things that the re-imagining the school day commission is actively looking at and to see whether there is a real appetite for change in this regard.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

Carry on, Mohammad Asghar.

Photo of Mohammad Asghar Mohammad Asghar Conservative

Thank you. Data from the annual school census shows that there has been a 7.5 per cent cut to primary-school support staff since 2014 and 2015. There are more than 1,000 fewer standard teaching assistants and 300 special needs support staff working in Welsh primary schools compared to four years ago.

Last week, Wales Online reported that the headteachers were calling on the Welsh Government to provide more cash directly to schools, as the cuts have reached unsustainable levels and schools are at breaking point. Minister, when will you take action to address the crisis in school funding in Wales? As I just read this morning, the real-term funding cuts from 2010 to 2018 are nearly an 8 per cent reduction in funding for primary schools, which is totally not giving the service to schools and the teachers at the same time.

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:48, 23 October 2019

My ability to respond positively to those issues, of course, would be helped immensely if we were to see an end to austerity originating out of the Member's own party and their Government in Westminster. Later on this afternoon, we will be able to have an extended debate on the work of the Children, Young People and Education Committee around the issue of school funding. I am determined, in the constraints of the money available to this Welsh Government, to do all I can to get as much money to the front line as possible.