I thank John Griffiths for that, Llywydd. It is an authoritative report, absolutely, and I completely agree with him. Far too many people get sent to prison in Wales. We've seen the figures from the Wales Governance Centre, and that is a failure of having a coherent system, but it's also a failure of purpose in the system as well.

I was told recently, from someone who had visited a women's prison, where there were tens of women from Wales in that prison, that more than half of them were there because they had failed to attend to the conditions that their probation officer had placed on them. They hadn't, as far as I could tell, committed a further offence; they'd simply not kept to the conditions of their supervision. Now, if I had managed to succeed all those years ago in getting the probation service into the hands of this National Assembly, I cannot imagine for a moment that we would have contemplated an outcome in which women were taken away from their families, with all the damage we know that had done, for not committing an offence, but for simply not observing the rules that the probation service is currently obliged to operate under.

So, yes, we would have a more joined-up system in a practical sense, but we would have a different sense of purpose for the system as well, and we'd be able to make that part of the purpose of the system right through it so that every aspect of the system was operating in the direction that we would want to see it operate, and the report gives us that opportunity.