Item 6 on the agenda this afternoon is a statement by the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs on the Welsh national marine plan, and I call on the Minister for or Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs, Lesley Griffiths.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I am pleased to announce the publication and adoption of the first Welsh national marine plan, setting out a 20-year vision for clean, healthy and productive Welsh waters. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the members of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee, whose recommendations have helped to inform the plan, and the many interested stakeholders and partners who have contributed their time, expertise and ideas.

The publication of this Welsh national marine plan is our opportunity to develop a distinctively Welsh approach to the management of our seas, in line with the goals and ways of working enshrined in the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. The plan we are publishing today shows the proactive approach we are taking as a Welsh Government to preserve the immense value of healthy seas to Wales's environment, economy and society. If we manage our seas wisely, they can play a vital role in regulating the impacts of climate change, and protecting our most precious species. Economic activity in our seas contributes millions of pounds and thousands of jobs, which benefit our coastal communities and our economy as a whole. Our iconic coastline is fundamental to our cultural heritage and identity.

This plan is published at a time when our seas and coastal communities are under immense pressure, and action is needed to preserve the value of our seas for future generations. The plan puts into place more robust requirements on developers and public authorities, giving Welsh Government a stronger basis for determining and licensing activities in accordance with our values. The foremost threat to our seas is that of climate change and species extinction. It is vital that we take the signs seriously, and we take action before it is too late. The impact of climate change is already upon us, with Welsh communities experiencing the impacts of intensifying patterns of flooding, coastal erosion and extreme storms. The plan strengthens the requirements for all developments to demonstrate they are resilient in the face of the flooding and coastal erosion we expect as a result of climate change.

The plan sets out our intention to expand the network of marine protected areas, and strengthen the protections that apply to other designated areas. Stronger requirements have been introduced, to enable firm action against marine litter and other forms of pollution arising from activities in our seas. Taking a planned approach to the management of our seas provides opportunities for sustainable economic development, enabling the creation of jobs in a way that contributes to the protection of the marine environment. Our plan, therefore, sets out the ways in which our policies will encourage a wide range of economic activities, from fishing and aquaculture to tourism and shipping. Central to both our environmental and our economic agenda is the role our seas can play in supporting the transition to a low-carbon energy system.

We already have in Wales some of the most substantial marine energy infrastructure of any country in the world, including large-scale offshore wind developments, and marine energy demonstration zones, in which Welsh businesses and academics are creating the technologies for the future. I hope we in this Assembly can all agree that the development of a vibrant marine energy sector has to be one of our most important long-term strategic goals for the Welsh economy.

The plan also includes references to UK Government policy where matters are reserved to UK Government. Inevitably, there are areas in which there is a contrast between Welsh Government and UK Government policy. One such area is in relation to the extraction of oil and gas. Welsh Government policy is designed to avoid further extraction and consumption of fossil fuels within all areas for which we have responsibility. We completely oppose any extraction of fossil fuels in the seas surrounding Wales. In the plan, we have gone further than this to say that where offshore fossil fuel extraction has land-based elements—that is, any elements that would fall into the responsibility of Welsh Government—we will apply our policy to avoid continued extraction of fossil fuels, using all powers available to us.

In our plan, we've also included details of the UK Government policy, insofar as it applies to the seas surrounding Wales. Their policy is to maximise fossil fuel extraction in the offshore areas surrounding Wales. The contrast between the policy of Welsh Government and UK Government could not be more stark. For the avoidance of any doubt, I would like to place on record the view of Welsh Government that any policy to encourage the continued extraction of fossil fuels is a policy we would emphatically reject.

Now that we have published and adopted the Welsh national marine plan, our efforts will focus on implementation. A marine planning decision makers group has been formed and detailed supplementary guidance is being finalised in collaboration with stakeholders. We have now released an updated version of our Wales marine planning portal, providing freely accessible and interactive online evidence maps.

As the evidence base develops we will continuously refine the plan and how it applies to specific activities and specific regions of Wales. The publication of the first Welsh national marine plan forms an important part of our response to the climate and ecological emergency as it affects our seas. It is equally a demonstration of our commitment to coastal communities and our support for the industries that we believe will underpin Wales's future prosperity.

This plan sets out our vision for a prosperous and resilient Wales in which our seas are abundant with wildlife, are sustaining a vibrant renewable energy sector, and are enriching the lives of the people of Wales in so many other ways. 

Minister, thank you for your statement this afternoon. Obviously, as a committee, the environment committee, we've looked at this in great detail and I thank you and your officials who've come before us as well. So, I'm grateful to see the conclusion of the work brought forward in the plan and in particular the statement outlining the Government's aspirations for this plan. 

It's a 20-year plan, as it states. One thing is sure, all plans tend to get revised. So, the opening gambit, the opening question is: how durable do you think this plan actually is? We've seen it on many schemes that Welsh Government have brought forward with the best of intentions and with industry and sector-wide support. The woodland scheme is most probably the most obvious one in the field of environmental improvements and protections, where 100,000 hectares was the goal, and precious little progress has been made in that particular area. What confidence can we have that in four, five, six years' time this particular plan will not be subject to a massive revision, because maybe some of the goals you've set or some of the objectives you've put into this plan just aren't attainable, or the capacity isn't there, in particular from NRW, because we know, sadly, that in certain areas their ability to regulate and deliver has been found wanting since its inception? How confident are you that NRW have been at the forefront of delivering this plan with you, so that you haven't put too stretching a goal into it, and actually the structures that are out there to help deliver it just can't work with the Government aspiration in this particular area?

The economic use of the seas is of critical importance, because we're a coastal community. If you look at the population of Wales, predominantly around the coast is where the population exists. And that can be defined into three areas that this plan talks of: tourism, fishing and energy. We know, when it comes to tidal energy, there is huge potential, but much of the technology is very much still in its infancy. How will this plan enable the expansion of tidal power and tidal capture to obviously increase this particular area, because I think that's a very important area to focus on? But tourism as well, because many towns and cities—. Let's not forget that Cardiff is a coastal city. It can be measured very profitably as a city—it's a vibrant city Cardiff is—but then when you go further away from Cardiff, you find many coastal areas struggling and they rely on the tourism sector, which you touched on in your statement, and yet we know that between 2017 and 2018 there was a 12 per cent decline in tourism numbers here in Wales, as opposed to obviously Scotland, which saw a 29 per cent increase in tourism numbers. So, we have a great asset around the shores of this great country of ours. How will this plan enable other departments to use it as an economic promotional tool, so that those communities that do feel they have been left behind can benefit from the expansion of tourism? 

I'd also like to understand how the economic department more generally has been involved in the development of the plan. You touch on shipping and ports in particular. We have huge opportunities to expand those particular areas and especially with so much responsibility now, when we leave the European Union, coming back into the Assembly or to a UK level. What level of engagement has been undertaken with the UK Government in developing this plan, because tides ebb and flow? They don't respect borders or boundaries, they don't, and what maybe is going on in England shouldn't necessarily be adopted here in Wales. That's entirely up to the Government to determine whether it wants to, but there does need to be a collaborative approach to managing our seas, and it would be good to understand exactly the level of engagement, and in particular the development of the plan as it's developed forward that you've worked on with the DEFRA department in London.

I do note, obviously, the extensive referral to fossil fuels. I think it occupies five/six paragraphs in the whole statement, it does. That's a Government position, and I would most probably disagree with it to a point, but I understand why the Government are making that view known.

I understand from one paragraph that it would seem, if you read between the lines, that you would be using the planning system, because you talk about areas that are within your control on the land to develop your policy, even though the fossil fuel extraction could be going on at sea. Could you be more explicit as to what type of measures you might be looking to exercise? As I said, is it as simple as you would be using the planning system and you'd be giving direction to the Planning Inspectorate and to local authorities to refuse such planning applications? Because I think that's important, that people understand the signals that are coming from Government and the use of the planning system to obviously carry out Government policy.

But, on the whole, it is vital that we do maintain a balance between what we look at as an economic asset and an environmental asset, and the conservation levers that we have around our magnificent coastline here in Wales are something that do need protecting and do need enhancing. I look forward to this plan being exercised by the Government with the new powers that will be coming back from the European Union. For the first time for many decades now, you will have direct say over many areas that, historically, have been made from outside this building.

I thank the Member for that series of questions. I do think it's a durable plan. As you say, it's our vision for the next 20 years. It's been a long time coming. I've been working on this, along with officials, since I first came into post three years ago, and I think it was important to get it right. It was something that I thought was very necessary, for us to have our own marine plan, particularly with, as you say, the new powers that will be coming forward. Will it need refining at times? I guess we have to be flexible in relation to that, but I certainly would not want to see a wholesale look again or another consultation in this area over the next 20 years.

You asked about NRW and their regulation capacity and capabilities, and I met this morning with the chair of NRW and other officials from NRW, where regulation is often a standing item, as I'm sure you can imagine, but we specifically spoke about regulation and the importance of their ability to be able to regulate new policies and plans that we're bringing forward, along with the current ones. Certainly, I am assured that that is the case.

You asked a series of questions, one being around involvement with the UK Government, and you're quite right about cross-border arrangements, if you like, in relation to the sea. So, we have engaged with all our neighbouring marine planning authorities to support the development of effective cross-border planning, because I think that's very important within this plan. Certainly, my department has had close and regular liaison with the Marine Management Organisation on marine planning matters to ensure we do have that joined-up approach. We've also engaged with Scotland, with Northern Ireland, with the Republic of Ireland and the Isle of Man, and we've also put in place a ways-of-working agreement with the Marine Management Organisation around collaboration.

There is an economic focus to the plan, and I think it's about balance in relation to—you mentioned tourism and ports and shipping, and, certainly, officials have engaged right across Government. But there are clearly many jobs already in relation to our coastal communities and our marine life. Obviously, I've worked closely with Ministers in relation to bringing forward this plan. We are absolutely committed to making Wales a more prosperous, sustainable and equal society, so the seas play a crucial role in our economy and particularly the economies of our coastal communities, and as I said in my opening statement, they're under immense pressure at the moment. So, I think it's really important that we recognise the wealth of assets our seas offer and the need to plan for them in a sustainable way.

You also mentioned renewable energy, and, clearly, a lot of the technologies coming forward are novel. I attended the marine energy conference in Dublin last month, or maybe the month before, and some of the technology that was on show there—there were many developers for floating wind, for instance. Clearly, over the coming years, that's going to be an important part. So, again, it's really important that we work very closely with developers, with our consenting organisations and with our regulators too, to make sure that we are able to take the opportunities that these new technologies are coming forward with.

You specifically mentioned fossil fuels, and I thought that it was really important to have that in the plan. I hope I made my views very clear in our opening statement alongside—the differing fossil fuel policies that we have between the UK Government and the Welsh Government.

I am very clear that our land planning policy can be used. That should be able to avoid the continued extraction and consumption of fossil fuels on land, and that must be applied in any considerations related to shore-based infrastructure associated with offshore oil and gas activity.

May I thank the Minister for her statement this afternoon? Clearly, we will need some time to digest the substantial document before coming to a final conclusion on my views on it. But, certainly, there are a few points arising that I need to ask some questions on.

I’m pleased that you’ve acknowledged the impacts that we’re already seeing in terms of the climate emergency, and the impact that that’s having on our communities. You make reference to flooding and coastal erosion, for example, and we are aware that there are communities across Wales facing that very real challenge today. I want to ask, therefore, what the Government’s intention is in terms of creating a system or creating a specific process—proactively, perhaps— a statutory process, in order to ensure that all the stakeholders who are going to have to be part of that process, of perhaps relocating communities, even, who face the greatest level of threat, can come together.

We can talk about what needs to be done to safeguard those communities, but, at the end of the day, there will be some communities that will have to relocate, and people are looking to Government, I think, to give leadership in this area. We may be talking about one or two over the next decade, but after that there will be more. So, we need some sort of process in place and a clear regime in order to have that discussion and then to take action when necessary. So, I’d be eager to hear your comments on that.

The fact that I’m asking this question perhaps leads me to my next question, namely, of course: we have a national development framework, and we have this marine plan, and they overlap, don’t they? That is, the issue that I’ve just discussed could fall into one or the other, or both, as it perhaps should. Renewable energy likewise: it is included in both documents. Why, therefore, not have a marine and terrestrial plan merged in a co-ordinated way that is dovetailed properly? Why have two different documents?

In expanding the network of the marine protected areas, the MPAs, how will you ensure that all of the voices are heard and are listened to, of course, in that discussion? We all remember the efforts of the last Assembly in expanding the number of marine conservation zones, and I do think that it was a problem in jointly developing those proposals with a broad enough range of stakeholders that led to the conflict that emerged as a result of that. It’s important that everyone comes on that journey together. So, where will those voices be heard, and how will you ensure that everyone can participate in that discussion?

I want to expand on marine energy, of course. I agree with you that this is certainly one of the most important long-term strategic aims for Wales. I would argue that, in order to achieve that to its full potential, we need further devolution—for example, Crown Estate responsibilities, which they already have in Scotland. I would ask you whether you agree, for example, that developing Crown Estate powers for this place would support us in delivering that potential, as it is, as you say, one of our most important strategic long-term aims?

I’m pleased to see the reference to the extraction of fossil fuels from our seas. I’ve raised this with you previously, of course. Plaid Cymru opposes that, and I’m pleased to see a statement making your view on that issue clear. The challenge now, of course, is to ensure that this plan is implemented and that it is used by regulators, developers, and the users of our marine environment, and that it doesn’t just gather dust on a shelf. And the key question in that regard is: will this plan be given the necessary resource and investment? Because there is a feeling, I think, that the marine policy has been a poor relation for far too long, and therefore, perhaps as a result of this plan, the time has now come to invest to the necessary levels in order to ensure that change does occur.

Thank you very much, Llyr Huws Gruffydd, for those series of questions and comments. I hope you agree I've been very unequivocal in relation to the fossil fuel extraction. I thought it was really important to set that out in the statement and also in the national marine plan.

For the first time, we've got a statutory strategic policy framework in place to help guide marine decision making, and I think it's really important that we have that there to support all those who wish to use our marine environment, for whatever reason, to ensure that we have the resilience of our marine ecosystems and that we are able to protect the very rich and varied maritime heritage, as I'm sure you will agree. I think the main thrust in relation to development, and to renewable energy development in particular, is that the right developments are encouraged in the first place, and that they come forward in the first place, and that unnecessary conflict is avoided, which I don't think has happened previously. I think there have also been delays when there are applications for consent in the first place. So, I think it's really important that the plan assists in that way.

I think you can see that sustainable development is absolutely at the core of this plan. So, it includes policies to confirm the need to protect our environment, as well as setting out the strategic framework that I think will be needed as we bring forward more renewable energy.

One point I would want to make is that this plan doesn't reduce existing environmental checks and balances. I think it actually goes further, and it does provide that policy encouragement for actions to protect and restore and enhance our marine ecosystems.

You mentioned the national development framework, and, obviously, this plan and the NDF will work alongside each other. I thought it was very important to bring forward this marine plan in its own right. You'll be aware from when I've been in front of committee that it is later than I planned it to be, but that little thing called Brexit I think got in the way. I'm not making an excuse, but you will appreciate this was a significant piece of work that I was absolutely determined we would get right, and I think it's a really important day. The launch of this plan is something that I think is very important for Wales.

In relation to marine protected areas, the plan does contain policies confirming protection for the MPA network of sites. An extensive habitats regulation assessment has been undertaken so that we could understand and manage any potential effects of policies in relation to that within this plan. It's vital that we keep stakeholders involved, and I mentioned two groups, I think, in my original statement who will assist us in relation to the implementation of the plan, because, as you say, it's really important that it's not put on a shelf gathering dust. Certainly, the focus of this will now move to implementation, and guidance is just being finalised and will be going out to interested parties.

I had a meeting last week or the week before with the Crown Estate, and, certainly, my officials are working very closely with them to see what more we can do to support the development of offshore wind industry in appropriate locations. I personally haven't had a conversation about the devolution of further powers, but what I think is really important is that we do work closely with the Crown Estate. All the officials I met with the Crown Estate, interestingly, had all worked on Gwynt y Môr, probably 10 or 15 years ago, and they certainly recognised the opportunities that we do have in Wales in relation to offshore wind.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

I very much welcome the statement by the Minister, and the plan. We have to look at it all against a background of global warming and rising sea levels, and, unless we act quickly, further global warming and further rising sea levels. It's important that Welsh seas are clean, healthy, safe, productive and biologically diverse. I welcome that the Welsh Government recognises the economic potential associated with our marine resources, as well as the role our seas play in supporting well-being. Through an ecosystem approach, natural resources are sustainably managed, and our seas are healthy and resilient, supporting a sustainable and thriving economy. I note that this plan will be supported by supplementary planning documents and related planning tools. When are they likely to be produced?

I welcome low-carbon objective 1 to contribute significantly to the decarbonisation of our economy and to our prosperity, by increasing the amount of marine renewable energy generated.

I support further commercial deployment of offshore wind technology at scale over the lifetime of the plan. In the NDF, it is suggested that areas are designated as suitable for wind energy generation. Is it intended to designate areas at sea, or have I missed it in my quick glance through the document?

Supporting the development and demonstration of wave energy and tidal stream technologies in the short to medium term is something I very much welcome, and I'm amongst those across parties who represent the Swansea bay region who are absolutely and utterly disappointed that the Swansea bay tidal lagoon has not been given the go-ahead.

Finally, we have the Welsh national marine plan and a national development framework. Whilst I agree with what Llyr Gruffydd said—they should be in one document—if they're not going to be in one document, can they cross-reference each other in such a way that people can move between the two? Because the sea comes into land, and anything that happens on land, such as nitrates going into rivers, ends up in the sea. So, you can't treat one as dealing with one area, and one dealing with the other—they're all about our environment.

Thank you, Mike Hedges, who, obviously, is the Chair of the climate change committee. In relation to cross-referencing, it's certainly something that I can look at and speak to the Minister for local government about, because, obviously, the NDF hasn't been brought forward yet, but I think that would be, obviously, very helpful for people to be able to access both of those documents in the way that you suggest. So, I'm very happy to speak to her and look at that.

I should have probably said in my answer to Llyr that we've had a new consenting strategic advisory group. What that does is provide a forum for open and honest discussion, I think, about key consenting challenges, for instance. That's not unique to Wales, but I think, again, that will help in relation to the points that Mike Hedges raised.

I too share your disappointment about the tidal lagoon. Clearly, it was something that the UK Government chose not to take forward. But I do think there are many opportunities for renewable energy in our seas around Wales.

I also didn't answer the question to Llyr around coastal communities and, clearly, I'm aware of which community you are discussing. This is something that's going to have to be looked at very carefully over the coming years, and you'll be aware, for instance, that we supported Gwynedd Council with funding to undertake research. It's a discussion that the UK Government are also having, because, as we see, the effects of climate change—it's clearly a very sensitive discussion that needs to take place. But I think in the first instance, it's really important that our local authorities discuss it with the local population.

May I thank the Minister for this statement? I think it is important that we now have a marine plan for Wales, although, as one who has been pushing for some time for some kind of Welsh plan that corresponded to the 'Harnessing our Ocean Wealth' Irish plan, which has been published for some years now, I do note, of course, that Welsh Government had to produce this plan, and that was as a result of Westminster legislation. But, of course, it’s a good thing that there is some kind of an outline of this Government’s intention as regards the seas.

I will refer to something I’ve alluded to many times in the Assembly, namely the continuous need to get a better understanding of the seas around us, and the role that the oceanography department in Bangor University, in my constituency, has in that work of understanding how to map the seas. I’m pleased that there was an affirmative response to the debate to the debate that I tabled some time ago, about the need for the Government to come to an agreement on the use of the Prince Madog as a research vessel. I’m very pleased about the way in which the Minister responded to that concern that was expressed to her by myself that possibly there was an uncertain future facing that vessel, and I’m looking forward to seeing a strengthening of the agreements as regards the use of the Prince Madog.

But, if I could talk specifically about the plans in relation to marine energy, of course, there are exciting schemes around the coastline of Anglesey as regards tidal energy—the Morlais scheme, the Minesto scheme. And also there are schemes that have been mentioned for many years and are now coming back on to the agenda to produce more wind energy. But I have to say that I am concerned about the lack of collaboration, so it appears, between what needs to happen and what could happen in the seas and what needs to happen, and what doesn’t need to happen too in some areas, on land.

We have had an outline through the draft plan, the national framework plan, as regards the intention of the Government on terrestrial wind energy. It’s a great concern to me to see these 15 areas, corresponding to 20 per cent of the surface of Wales, being identified as priority areas for the production of solar and wind energy. The idea of having such a huge area of Ynys Môn identified as an area ready for turbines of 250 ft high, which is higher than any land on Ynys Môn, makes me feel that not enough thought has gone into this, and the Campaign for the Protection of Rural Wales says that what we have in the NDF is not fit for purpose.

But another thing that struck me with the NDF, of course, is that there’s no reference to what could be done in the sea. You can’t plan for the future of marine energy without thinking of the land, and vice versa. So, I’d like to hear from the Minister about what intention she has to assimilate both elements, and why the Government decided to split their plans for the future of our renewable energy into land and sea, when, surely, we should be thinking in just one unified way.

There are plans—if you tally them up, it corresponds to about 10 times the energy needs of Wales, if you tally them up between both plans. I like being ambitious and planning for the production of more electricity than we need, and we could, of course, export it. But something makes me think that the Government has failed to think about the kind of scale that we might need for energy production. And I would like an explanation of why there aren’t any real targets as regards how much energy needs to be produced from the sea and how much we can actually achieve from the sea so that we don’t have to then push for the more unpopular schemes that create more of an impact on the environment and so on on the land.

And, finally, I don’t think you answered Llyr’s question on the resources that the Government is willing to invest, in financial terms and in human resources, in order to be able to succeed in delivering these plans.

Diolch, Rhun ap Iorwerth, for those questions. Just in relation to the Prince Madog, I remember when you—I think it was a short debate that you had around the Prince Madog, and that's when I looked into that for the first time in the level of detail that was needed. I think it was quite right to ensure that we secured the future for the vessel. And the First Minister and I visited—. I'm not sure if you're aware that the First Minister and I visited it after the Anglesey agricultural show, on a very wet day, to see for ourselves the work, world-leading work, that is being undertaken on the vessel. So, I'm very pleased that, between us all, we managed to secure that. 

In relation to the NDF, obviously—I think I'm right in saying that it's still out to consultation; I think it finishes this week. Clearly, it's something that we can look at in detail around the targets, for instance. I think I was the Minister that started the NDF process, as well as doing the marine plan. Obviously, it now sits within the portfolio of the Minister for local government. But I was very keen to bring forward this document, because we were playing catch-up. I think we were desperately in need of a marine plan. I wanted it to be very ambitious and I think it is a major step forward in the way that we're going to manage our seas and secure their sustainable future. And, certainly, I think the publication of this plan today gives a very clear message that we are planning for a much more prosperous and resilient Wales and our natural resources do need to be sustainably managed in the way that we've outlined. But it's certainly something that I can look at with the Minister to make sure there is more—. I think the cross-referencing suggestion from Mike Hedges is certainly something we can look at. 

You're quite right, there are lots of opportunities, and, clearly, you represent a constituency that is completely surrounded by our seas and all the benefits that that brings. And I've visited Morlais, for instance. I've had discussions with developers. I mentioned the conference I went to in Dublin—there were a lot of people interested in that stretch from Ynys Môn right across the north Wales coast. I think collaboration is very important and it is there. I mentioned new advisory groups we've brought in. There has been a huge amount of stakeholder engagement as well, but we recognise the importance of marine renewables. Again, it's about recognising the key consenting challenges that there have been, and I think this plan will go a long way to addressing those. 

With apologies, if I can just quote the words of John F. Kennedy:

'all of us have, in our veins the exact same percentage of salt...that exists in the ocean...we have salt in our blood, in our sweat, in our tears. We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea...we are going back...whence we came.'

Not only are those words quoted here today in this Chamber, but actually 10 years ago, with Hilary Benn, my boss at the time, as we introduced the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009 in Westminster. A few months later, in October, I was introducing the final stages of the 320-clause Bill and, on 12 November 2009, 10 years ago to this day, we introduced the legislation that underpins now what the Minister is proudly and rightly bringing forward in terms of Welsh planning in our marine environment. It is a landmark moment, I have to say. And I welcome this and the scrutiny of the committee as well. 

Could I ask just a few questions? First of all, what is the Minister's view on the ongoing campaign by the Marine Conservation Society and others for highly protected marine conservation areas, as a sort of gold standard zone? It's being explored currently in England and Northern Ireland. Is the Minister open to looking at this and at whether there's any potential within Welsh waters for those gold standard zones, or not? How does this plan today contribute to the reality around the whole of the UK, to this ecologically coherent network of marine conservation areas, especially in light of accelerating warming of the oceans, when species migrate but also even habitats can have soft and fluid edges? Could she reiterate, put on record again, that decisions going forward, particularly on implementation, balancing the economic and social activities and conservation, will always—always—be based on the most sound evidence, including the very best environmental baseline analysis?

And, in respect of fossil fuels—and I welcome the clarity given here very much in this statement here—can I ask what are those powers that Welsh Government has at its disposal to reject fossil fuel extraction in these precious waters, but not least in the offshore waters? Powers over, for example, onshore and near-shore facilities used to support and service extraction—we could use those— powers to influence the Westminster Government in line with the overarching Marine and Coastal Access Act, which has duties upon the four Governments and administrations of the UK to talk together and plan together properly. What is the Irish Government's position on fossil fuels, and can we work with them? What does the marine Act enable Welsh Government to do in having a say in these offshore waters? And, at this present moment in time, what's the EU's position in terms of the extraction of fossil fuels there?

And, finally, noting the establishment of the marine planning decision makers group, which I really welcome, to take forward implementation, can I ask how the Minister will ensure that all stakeholders are fully involved in the implementation, including, yes, fisheries, renewable energy, transport, ports and all those other stakeholders, but also expert environmental and ecological organisations, because they also have to be an integral part of the way forward?

But this is a landmark day. I welcome the statement, and now it's getting on with it and balancing, as it was originally 10 years ago, those interests on the living seas that we have around our shores. 

Thank you very much. That's the second time I've heard that quote today; it's obviously the quote of the day. As the Member said, it's 10 years since the UK Labour Government brought forward their legislation, and I did say—I held my hands up—we are playing catch-up and that's why it was so important, I think, that we have brought forward this Welsh national marine plan. I do think it's a landmark day, certainly for my officials, who've worked on it for a long time. They see this as a really important step for the future of our seas. 

Huw Irranca-Davies talked about the marine protected areas, and whether I would consider a gold standard. I certainly haven't had that raised with me that I can remember, but, obviously, we've had significant stakeholder engagement on this plan, and I'm always happy to look at anything that will continue to protect our seas. The plan clearly states that the development of strategic resource areas, for instance, shouldn't hinder the future designation of MPAs, and that certain human activity may not be appropriate within MPAs, for instance. It's really important that we have those protections within this plan, because, as I say, it's there for 20 years, so it's really important that we make the most of our opportunities.

Regarding the fossil fuels and the oil and gas, I did want to be very clear about the differences between the two Governments. However, oil and gas consenting is a reserved matter for the UK Government across most of our Welsh seas, as the Member knows, but we are responsible for nature conservation, we're responsible for environmental protection, and that's why we've put in place a wide range of measures to ensure that those safeguards are in place. I met with the Minister for climate change mitigation in Ireland when I was at the marine energy conference. This was an issue that we discussed generally, but I think we do need to ensure that, all the countries that I spoke to about those cross-border arrangements, we know very clearly where we have the powers and what we are able to do with those powers. As I say, the licensing of offshore petroleum exploitation is a reserved function, but I think the UK Government are in no doubt as to our position.     

The national marine plan is the culmination of a great deal of consultation and collaboration over a number of years, and I think that reflects the importance of our seas both in terms of the number and the range of interests, industries, that they support, and also the national sense of self that is appreciated by anybody who has lived near or alongside a coastal community. So, I do welcome the first national plan to manage and to develop our seas in a sustainable and far-sighted way. 

I want to pick up on the approach to fisheries and habitats. The relevant policies recognise the importance of sustainable capture and the need to sustain fish life cycles and also the ecosystem upon which they depend. We all know that the vast majority—and it's around 90 per cent of our fishing fleet—is made up of smaller vessels that mostly stay inshore. And they mostly use static gear like pots and traps, and do not tend to fish for species that have been allocated a quota. So, for example, they look for shellfish. Now, currently, pot numbers—and you won't be surprised that I'm mentioning this—are not capped but, going forward, Minister, will you continue to consult the marine stakeholders and assess and evaluate the case for quotas on pots and limits on catch, depending on the changing health of those shellfish stocks? 

And again, working with the fishing industry, will you consider the merits of tagging pots and moving to the use of biodegradable materials, as we are now acutely aware these days of what plastic pollution does to the sea? That is particularly created by lost pots and fishing tackle, and it does do significant harm. The other form of harm, of course, by untagged pots and not keeping check of them, is the danger and the threat that they pose by ghost fishing. And I'm sure you know that all the people who are engaged currently in fishing, in that particular type of fishing, would be really receptive to doing these things, because many of them already are doing them.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.

Thank you. Joyce Watson raises some really important points, and one of the things I was very keen to have reflected in this policy was around the small vessels, which, as you say, make up the majority of our Welsh fleet. They're very, very sensitive to displacement, for instance, and I thought it was really important that we safeguarded established activities within this plan.

In relation to continuing to work with stakeholders, obviously I work with stakeholders around this. I've worked with fisheries and marine stakeholders around Brexit—they've very much been around the table—and I will continue to do so. I think the point that you raise around plastic pollution and fishing litter, for want of a better word, we recognise, for instance, that fishing gear that's lost at sea has the potential to then obviously pollute and causes major impacts on the marine environment. So, that's very much a piece of work that we've been doing with the fisheries sector around that.

You'll also see that the plan includes policy provision to protect areas of importance to our fishing industry, and that includes the key habitats and the fishing grounds, as well as encouragement to develop the underpinning evidence base, which is absolutely essential. I think it was Huw Irranca-Davies who mentioned that. That evidence base is so necessary in order to be able to facilitate positive fisheries management decisions.

Thank you very much, Minister.