So, we now move to spokespeople's questions. The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Llyr Gruffydd.

Thank you very much, Llywydd.

Minister, the national development framework clearly is primarily the responsibility of the Minister for Housing and Local Government. But you've explained to us here previously how you've worked closely with her in developing many aspects relevant to your portfolio, and it will clearly have a huge bearing on your and the Government's ability to deliver on your aspirations in relation to biodiversity, carbon reduction, renewable energy, et cetera.

And I'd like to start with renewable energy, if I may. There are 11 energy priority areas designated for onshore wind development in the NDF—the draft NDF. But there have been huge concerns from many in the sector, and beyond actually, that the Arup assessment used to underpin the proposal is fundamentally flawed, and that those areas, as a result, are largely unusable for onshore wind. Arup have applied, I'm told, inappropriate constraints, onerous buffers around designations, they failed to include separation distances from residential properties, which developers apply as standard to mitigate against the impacts of noise, visual amenity, or shadow flicker impacts. Now, that means that less than 10 per cent of the priority areas are actually suitable for wind, and only 5 per cent is available once, of course, existing windfarms have been excluded. Now, furthermore, available areas are only likely to be suitable for projects of less than 10 MW. That won't, then, fall under the development of national significance system and will therefore not be assessed against the NDF. So, do you accept that these proposals are flawed and that we should replace the place-based system of energy priority areas with a broader criteria-based approach?

Obviously, the consultation is still live until Thursday, I think. And it's really important that the draft NDF, and then, consequently, the plan itself, does support the Welsh Government's targets for decarbonisation and renewable energy generation, so it's very important that we get that right. I am aware that the evidence that's been used has been commissioned by Arup, but certainly, as you can see, the Minister for Housing and Local Government is in her place and has heard that, and we will continue to have discussions on this following the close of the consultation, and, particularly, I have been contacted about some of the points that you've just raised. 

Well, I am a bit concerned that you're not concerned and, clearly, it needs to be addressed, because it will have a huge impact on your ability to fulfil what I presume are your aspirations in terms of decarbonisation and energy or renewable energy production. Now, the strategic search areas in TAN 8, of course, had a target in terms of proposed energy generation. There's no indication of what levels of energy your energy priority areas in the NDF are expected to contribute. So, is that something that you intend to provide? And if not, then how do we know how significantly, or otherwise, these specific areas will contribute to our energy needs? Indeed, what demand assumption have you made for the period of this NDF up to 2040, in terms of energy, in order to ensure that it does actually facilitate the delivery of enough renewable energy to meet our decarbonisation targets over the next 20 years?

Well, I wouldn't want you to think I wasn't concerned. I made very clear, right at the beginning, that it's vital that the draft NDF and then the plan itself does seek to support our targets for decarbonisation, and it's very important that when the consultation is finished—and please remember it's still in consultation—that it does just that. So, those will be the conversations that will be continuing, certainly at an official level and at a ministerial level. There is huge potential for renewable energy in Wales, and you've referred to onshore wind particularly. So, I'm very aware that the policy has caused a lot of media interest. I don't think it would be appropriate to make any further comment on specifics while the consultation is live. 

Well, I'm afraid that you're hiding behind the consultation a little bit, because what I'm asking is what assessment has your Government made in terms of the demand that will be required in terms of energy generation over the next 20 years, because surely you will have to have done that piece of work before, then, you can put forward a national development framework that is supposedly there to facilitate the achievement of those renewable energy targets. So, I really would like you to try and answer that question again, if you would. 

But I'd also like you to address this point, because, within the NDF, policy 8 sets out the strategic framework for biodiversity and economic resilience, something, of course, that you spoke at length about yesterday in a marine context. Now, feedback so far indicates that this needs strengthening, and the policy interestingly only requires that the development 'should enhance biodiversity', not that it must contribute to net biodiversity benefit as is stated, of course, in 'Planning Policy Wales.' Now, that is a clear change in policy from the Government, as the NDF will sit above 'Planning Policy Wales' and will dictate the policies that need to be fulfilled through the strategic and local development plans. So, can you explain to the Assembly why you believe this clear change of policy is justified? 

Yes, that is not the case, and those are discussions that I am continuing to have with the Minister. The NDF falls in her portfolio. Obviously, from a renewable energy point of view, we've had a great deal of discussion, but whilst the consultation is live I cannot comment on specific projects and assessments, but, believe me, the assessments have been done and they will come forward once the NDF has been published. 

The Conservative spokesperson, Andrew R.T. Davies. 

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Minister, we're in the middle of a general election campaign, just in case no-one had noticed. Obviously, environmental policy will be closely co-ordinated across the UK, but you have responsibility here in Wales. Your party, at a UK level, says that if it was to become the Government on 13 December they would move to a net zero target by 2030. Your policy is 2050 here in Wales, something we all subscribe to. Do you believe it is credible to move to net zero by 2030? And if you do believe it is credible, will you as a Government be doing that as well? 

So, this Welsh Government took the advice from our advisory body, the UK Climate Change Committee. They advised us that the target that we should reach for here in Wales, because this is the Welsh Government that you're questioning now, should be 95 per cent. I've asked the committee to go back and see if we can go further to net zero by 2050. They're the people who advise us and that's the advice I take. What the UK Labour Government comes forward with on the evidence that they've gathered for, obviously, the UK—. This is devolved to Wales, please bear in mind, but we are part of the UK when it comes to our climate change targets. I'd be very interested to see that evidence and then we could look at it further.

I accept that, because that's the point I made in my opening remarks—that you were responsible for policy here in Wales, but environmental policy is co-ordinated across the UK, as well, to make that overall gain. I assume from your answer—and if you could just clarify, because I think it is really important, because there are many comments that say it would be devastating to move to net zero by 2030—. The GMB union, for example, says it would be completely devastating to whole swathes of communities the length and breadth of the United Kingdom, and here in Wales. But I take it that your policy stays the same—it is 2050 and you cannot see a credible route to move to net zero by 2030 in your capacity as Minister and with the evidence that you have before you at the moment.

We're a long way from 2050, aren't we? At the moment, the UK Committee on Climate Change, which advises us, tells me that we should be aiming for a 95 per cent target. I, of course, want to reach net zero and I, of course, want to reach net zero earlier, and if the UKCCC comes back to me with advice that that's possible, I will look to it. Presumably, the UK Labour Government that hopefully will be in place after 12 December will also go to the UKCCC for advice and they will be able to then take that forward.

Well, I think, as you said, the advice that the climate change committee have given is that it is completely impractical to move to net zero by 2030, and so, hopefully, the Labour Party will bear that in mind when they're bringing their policy forward, rather than devastating communities here in Wales and across the rest of the United Kingdom. 

But if I could ask you another question around the basic payment for farmers, a window for which will be opening in the first week of December, and I declare an interest in this as an active farmer—. The Government brought forward news that was very welcome in that they were making a loan facility available to farmers should their basic payment application be held up through concerns around Brexit and obviously staffing alignment to make sure that claims were processed. As I understand it—and I look forward to this being corrected, because I have tried to find this information over the last month—if you've claimed that loan in the last 12 months, which was the last payment window, you would be excluded from doing the same this time around. Now you did, a week or two ago, say that you'd come back to me and write to me. I'm hopeful that you might have more of an up-to-date position, given that we're only two weeks away from that window, and, as we saw with the dairy in north Wales going bankrupt and going into administration, there are many farmers who have a real problem with cash flow at the moment, and any delay in the basic payment hitting bank accounts will cause huge problems. So, can you confirm that all farms will be eligible to receive that loan facility if they wish to, or is there an exclusion for farms that have exercised that option in the last 12 months?

I thought I had signed off a letter to you actually, so I do apologise if you haven't received that, and the answer was, yes, all farms can apply for that loan scheme. I thought it was really important to bring that loan scheme forward, because certainly the loan scheme we had last year—it's a support scheme we're having this year—was very well taken up and I've done all I can to publicise it to farmers to make sure that they do apply. But the answer to your specific question is that my understanding is that everyone can apply.