1. Will the Minister provide an update following the announcement by Tata Steel of 1,000 job losses in the UK? 372

Yes, of course. This announcement is extremely disappointing news and this will be a very worrying time for Tata Steel employees and their families. I'm continuing to engage with the company and with trade unions to understand what this means for the business in Wales and the many thousands of loyal people employed across its sites.

I thank the Minister for that answer. Only three weeks ago we heard the news from Tata that they were announcing 3,000 job losses across Europe, and I very much appreciated your written statement on 18 November and your oral statement on 19 November. We're three weeks on and we now get another statement that is as vague, in one sense, as the first statement. In the oral statement on 19 November you actually said the company would work over the next few months, where they would be identifying the job functions, and yet three weeks later we have this announcement that 1,000 will be in the UK. I just wondered whether you were aware of what made them change their minds as to make a further announcement in such a short space of time.

I make no apologies today, Minister, for repeating many of the things we said two, three weeks ago, because they are important issues that Members in this Chamber want answers to, and, more importantly, steelworkers and their families want answers to. As you say, there's uncertainty for steelworkers. In 2016, just after Christmas, we saw announcements from Tata that put steelworkers under threat. Just before Christmas now, in 2019, we see similar announcements, putting steelworkers and their families in uncertainty, with possibilities of job losses in months to come. Do you agree with me that this is a poor way of actually behaving to the workers—as you identified, loyal workers who have been dedicated and given commitment to that industry to ensure that it remains a sustainable, viable industry as best they can?

You've indicated again that you've talked to the trade unions. Have you had a commitment from Tata that the memorandum of understanding that they signed with the trade unions will be honoured so that no compulsory redundancies will be given to workers, because they gave up a commitment in their pension schemes to allow that agreement to be in place?

Have you any more detail as to where those job losses might be? A thousand in the UK. There are 8,000 approximately in Tata UK. The bulk of those, if not nearly all of them, are in Wales. So, this is clearly going to have an implication for Welsh steel jobs. And therefore, it is important that you look at the question as to where these jobs lie and the areas you need to work to to help those communities.

Again, we talked about supply chains, because if jobs go in Tata there's a likelihood that supply chains or contractors and those coming in to do the other jobs are going to be impacted upon. Have you done an analysis and had discussions with Tata about what impact there will be upon its supply chains?

Minister, you also highlighted the fact that there were four areas they picked on in that original letter earlier in November. Employment costs was just one of them. Have you had discussions on the other three, as to how they intend to look at producing a better product mix? How do they intend to reduce procurement costs? What optimisation or production processes will be involved? And will they be looking for help in those areas? Have those discussions yet started?

And do you remain assured that, actually, these job losses will not take place until March 2021, considering that two weeks after the original one we get an update of 1,000 job losses in the UK? When will we have an update as to where those job losses will be? Port Talbot has over half the employees of Tata UK. I cannot see how a large proportion of that 1,000 jobs will not be in Port Talbot. They are constituents of mine, they are friends of mine, they are family of mine.

We need to understand what this means for the community and those workers and their families. Time is going on, they're coming out with these glib comments and large notices of large job losses, but not detail. No-one's telling us where they will lie, no-one's telling us what job functions, what areas, other than 'two-third white collar, one-third blue collar'. That means nothing to many workers. It could be anybody in the works. It is important that we get this detail and it's important now that they communicate with their workforce so they can reassure them as to where it lands.

Can I thank Dai Rees for this topical question? Much of what he's impressed upon us today has been echoed by the European Works Council and the trade unions who are stating very clearly that they wish to have a meaningful consultation with Tata over the coming weeks and months, and that in order to have that meaningful consultation, they need access to as much detail as possible as soon as possible.

Dirprwy Lywydd, after the announcement, there were some comments that I kept hearing about, 'Well, there's a silver lining to this in that two thirds of the jobs are going to be white collar, they're going to be office based.' Look, these are jobs, these are people. Regardless of whether they're working on the shop floor or in an office, these people face losing their livelihoods. And regardless of whether they are white collar or blue collar, we are sympathetic to the position that they're in, and we will stand by them in helping them in whatever way, shape or form we can.

It will be an extremely difficult period for many, many people who will be questioning whether they'll have a job come March 2021 in Tata. The latest announcement adds little more to the announcement from 18 November. Essentially, it confirms the speculation that was taking place back in the middle of November, when the company announced that there would be up to 3,000 job losses across Europe. And at that point, there was a lot of speculation emerging that around 1,600 could be in the Netherlands and a further 350 elsewhere. So, people were then assuming that it would be around about 1,000 here in the UK. The announcement, essentially, confirms that, but it adds no more detail about the jobs or the location of the jobs that could be affected. We have been told again that the work that will take place between now and the new year will be on a role-by-role basis so that by February of next year, we will know not just what jobs face being lost, but also the location of those jobs.

We are keeping open the option of a taskforce to assist. If there is a concentration of jobs lost at any one site, then certainly a taskforce would be a sensible means of supporting those affected workers, and so we are going to keep that as a live option.

In terms of supply chain implications, we're working through this right now. I've previously informed Members that there will be a special manufacturing summit taking place in the new year. The supply chain for the steel industry will of course be a key concern at that summit. By the time of the summit taking place, we hope to have been able to conduct a thorough analysis of the implications of this particular announcement for those locations in and around the existing Tata sites in Wales. I have spoken briefly to Tata steel regarding the other areas where they are seeking to achieve cost savings, including the development of a better product mix and the reduction in procurement costs and the costs of goods and services through more effective and efficient procurement regimes.

I should just say that the date of March 2021 is the end date by which the implementation of this transformation programme concerning employees will have been completed. My concern in 2020 will be in ensuring that there is a seamless transition for anybody who could be out of work by 2021 into other high-quality well-paid employment in the region.

And I'd finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, congratulate Dai Rees on representing the steel sector, and in particular those workers at Port Talbot, with such energy over many years. We have had numerous conversations, we have stood side by side on many occasions in demanding a better deal for the steel sector in Wales, and it's only right that we now once again call on the UK Government to do so and to agree to a steel sector deal that could be transformational for the sector, and to ensure that it deals, once and for all, with making sure that those uncompetitive energy prices are resolved.

Thank you for those answers, Minister. I wonder if I can just sort of push you a little bit further on some of the questions you had from David Rees. I just want to start with your last comments though, about March 2021 being the end date for this transformation programme. It's very convenient, isn't it, that that's basically at the end of the five-year guarantee on jobs that we've been given by Tata, and potentially the end of the taskforce and the £60 million offer that you've made to Tata as well? I'm wondering whether you've had any indication from Tata themselves that one of the reasons perhaps they're not doing this more quickly is because of the offer that Welsh Government has made to them over the years, or whether it's something slightly more cynical than that, that they're getting the best out of us that they can before they actually just cut and run.

I'd be grateful as well if you could give us some indication of exactly how much you've known and at what times during the last three weeks or so. As you know, I've written to you a few times and been told, 'Well, you know, the information is coming, but we don't know what.' I think, to be fair, I've had something from you today that says that further information will be available in February 2020 from Tata. 

But, I'll go back to David Rees's questions about where the analysis of what types of jobs are going and where is in all this, because it's easy enough to make these announcements, but without telling us how they concluded which types of jobs are to go, then we should be asking why you're making these announcements at all. Because if you're talking about—. I think you said employment costs were the reason for the announcement being made. We should have some idea which jobs they're actually talking about. And I'm very conscious of course that, back in 2016, some of the jobs that went in the big set of losses there were themselves white-collar workers. There probably aren't that many left in Port Talbot Tata. 

Then finally, I just wanted to ask you, it's not so long ago you told us that you were going to meet Tata about your climate emergency announcement. Have you had any indication from Tata at all whether that has influenced what is likely to be some bad news for Wales? And if they have given you an indication of whether that was a factor, what have you done in order to reassure Tata that that shouldn't be something that they take into account in their commitment to Wales in the future? Thank you.

Can I thank Suzy Davies for her questions? The declaration of a climate emergency has not been a factor in their decision making. Tata themselves recognise that they need to respond to the climate emergency, that they need to make savings in terms of energy costs, and that they need to ensure that they're decarbonising their footprint. We've been working with them, as the Member is aware, on the offer of £8 million of investment in Port Talbot's power plant and also on £666,000 for research and development into new product development. Now, we were making very good progress in these talks in terms of making sure that the conditions were adequate, particularly those concerning the protection of jobs. We were, in turn, very close to reaching an agreement on conditions earlier this year. But, since then, we know what's happened.

There have been a number of announcements, including the collapse of the proposed joint venture with Thyssenkrupp; there's the proposed closure of Orb and now the latest announcement. That has held up the finalisation of an agreement on conditions, but we will not release that money until we are confident that it offers value for money, that investment, and that it will lead to jobs being protected for a good number of years. We are absolutely determined to use our financial resource to guarantee jobs are protected and that investment is protected in Welsh sites.

The Member asks about the time frame for analysing the functions that could be lost as a consequence of the announcement. The detail that we have from Tata is simply that they will be looking at two thirds of the jobs coming from management and office-based roles. We will be meeting with them again very soon, and officials are in very regular contact, in an effort to get a better assessment of precisely what roles could be lost, so that we can begin the process of building support systems for the people most likely to lose their employment.

In terms of the long-term future of Tata, it's been repeatedly said to me by Tata that these measures, the transformation programme, are designed to ensure the long-term survivability of the steel sector, or rather the Tata operations within the steel sector in the UK, and that it will release investment for those sites in Wales and across the border as well. I have no reason not to believe that this is absolutely true. I believe that Tata are acting in good faith when they assure me that this is about investing in the future of those facilities. Nonetheless, I would urge Tata to ensure that they consult meaningfully and engage properly with trade unions in ensuring that every bit of support that can be offered to employees is provided. 

I know that many of the questions have been asked but I know, from my perspective, I don't appreciate the drip, drip of information that is coming about in this way, especially in the lead-up to Christmas. It's not progressive of the company to do this and it's also eroding the confidence of the workforce. As I said last time, it's all been pretty secretive. Many of the people talking to me are not getting any clear information about what is happening. I e-mailed Tata when they sent the press release out to us, asking for the breakdown for Wales. Surely, if they've made a breakdown for the UK, which has emanated from the European job-loss breakdown, they can come up with some form of figure for Wales so that we can actually put heads together and try to understand how this will impact Wales. So, while they may have put a lot of resource into the local area—and without a doubt, they have—I think the trust in the company will erode if they're going to continue to act in this manner. 

I just wanted to say, from the last time, I think you misconstrued my question a tiny bit with regard to the investment. I wasn't saying we shouldn't invest but I'm saying, as has been reflected by what Suzy Davies said, if we are putting investment in, we need to be 100 per cent clear that plans are going to go ahead, as you've said, Minister, for the future retention of those plants here in Wales. So, my question is: how confident are you that we can get to those agreements so that we can ensure that agreements we've made between Plaid Cymru and the Labour Party, in terms of the power plant and investment that we need, can go ahead in this very precarious environment? Not only are we in the dark, but the people who work there are in the dark as well, and we are not in a good situation to be able to scrutinise effectively in those particular predicaments.

I think most of the questions have been asked already, but I would urge you, with whoever is in existence in the UK Government, whether it's officials or the Prime Minister, to look at how we can reconvene the steel workforce planning on a UK level, so that we can work together on this and make sure that the future of the steel industry is alive and kicking in Wales, as opposed to being eroded time and time again. 

The Member is absolutely right, this is a UK-wide problem. There are many factors that are global, which are, to an extent, out of the UK Government's control, but where the UK Government can have an influence, it must influence the conditions that would provide a more certain future for steel making in the UK. I am not waiting for the end of the general election period to liaise with UK Government. I wrote on 25 November to the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy asking her to urgently reconvene the cancelled UK Steel roundtable that the Member rightly mentioned. It's my view that talks are necessary right now. We can't wait until the new year for discussions to talk place, because the ground that we are standing on is shifting on a daily basis, with announcements such as this creating more and more uncertainty for people employed in the sector.

The announcement was very broad; it was very much a headline figure of up to 3,000, with no detail added to it. And as a consequence, the up to 3,000 jobs demonstrates that that figure of 3,000 is not fixed, and that's why I believe that consultation has to take place in a meaningful and urgent way with trade unions to ascertain whether there are ways of reducing that figure and, in particular, whether we can reduce the figure announced for the UK and specifically here in Wales.

Thank you very much. Thank you, Minister. The second topical question this afternoon will be answered by the Deputy Minister and the Chief Whip. Leanne Wood.