1. What action is the Welsh Government taking to promote human rights through its international relations strategy? OAQ54866

The international strategy is underpinned by clear values and principles, including an emphasis on support for human rights. We have a long and proud tradition of being a welcoming nation to people of all cultures and countries and a commitment also to the United Nations sustainability goals.

Can I applaud the commitment shown by the Welsh Government and indeed the UK Government on human rights and championing those rights around the world? Having said that, I am a little concerned that the Welsh Government has been cosying up to the communist Vietnamese Government in recent years, particularly through the Wales-Vietnam education link. Now, indeed—[Interruption.] Indeed, the Welsh Government rolled out the red carpet for a visit by the Vietnamese education Minister last year, less than 12 months ago. As you will be aware, Minister, the Vietnamese regime is a police state, which is regularly accused of human rights violations, not least in relation to the minority Christian community there. [Interruption.] I think the education Minister should be educated in related to the rights of Christians in Vietnam, which are being violated on a regular basis. According to the charity Open Doors, Vietnam is one of the top 50 persecutors of Christians in the world, with those from ethnic minorities particularly hard hit, facing violent attacks, harassment, the tearing down of their places of worship and imprisonment. Can I ask, as the international relations Minister, what discussions you've had with Vietnam on its human rights record, particularly in relation to the Christian community there? And what action are you taking cross-Government to ensure that there's a joined-up approach in addressing these human rights issues with Ministers, such as the Vietnamese education Minister, when they visit in the future?

Thank you, Darren. I'm disappointed, because I think we should be very proud of the fact that we are developing a very strong education relationship with Vietnam. The fact that we are helping them to improve their education systems, that we're encouraging more people from that country to come and study in Wales, that this is an up-and-coming country and that there are opportunities for us, therefore, to help to influence the—

Are you challenging them on their human rights record?

—direction of the country, I think is a really important strategic partnership for us—

Are you challenging them on their human rights record?

—to consider.

Can I just—? Darren, you have asked your question and you must give the Minister the opportunity to respond to the question. Minister.

I think it is worth underlining that it's not just us that have a relationship with Vietnam, but also UK Government. The Tory UK Government have a very close relationship as well. I do think we have to acknowledge that international relations in the area of human rights is always potentially quite difficult, but you have to make some decisions that are difficult sometimes, and we have made in this instance a decision that it is in our constructive and our partnership interest to make sure that we work with Vietnam to help them in developing their education system.

Where I would agree with Darren is that all Governments—this Government, the UK Government, the European Union, all Governments—should, as appropriate, make sure that they are raising issues of human rights with any nation—any and all nations. But it's as appropriate, and part of that, I have to say, has to be to do with developing links where you can have those conversations as well.

What I would like to ask—it's an issue I've raised before, but I haven’t quite yet had the clarity that I'm seeking—is on, in future, wider international affairs, and particularly in future trade deals, where I do have a worry that we are going to see watered-down commitments, Darren, to human rights, because, in effect we've seen it, indeed, in the Vietnam agreements, where what was legally binding under the European Union's legally binding and legally enforceable human rights obligations are now parked into a form of words alongside it. So, could I seek clarification that the voice of the Welsh Government through the Minister will be made clear that we want to see binding human rights obligations on any future trade deals, whether with the USA, whether with Vietnam, whether with anybody? And that will need an understanding from the UK Government that they will force that issue.

Thank you, and I think it's probably worth underlining that, in the past, the Conservative manifesto wanted to update the Human Rights Act—they previously wanted to scrap it altogether and to replace it with a British bill of rights. I've got to tell you that I've got more confidence in the system that we have at the moment than any other system that they are likely to introduce, because I think that international benchmarking is really, really important. And if he wants to be in the situation where the kind of people that he is mixing with—. If he wants to walk away from the Human Rights Act, the people he will be mixing with, the only people in the European Council, are Belarus and Kazakhstan, and that's potentially the route that we are going down. That was certainly the perspective of the Conservative manifesto. So, let's be clear about who is the party that is looking to downgrade human rights.

Now, coming on to your question, I think first of all it's worth saying that human rights is commonly not something that is substantively provided for within trade agreements. What happens is they are referred, they are referenced, on to broader framework agreements, and what we in the Welsh Government would want to see is clearly a reference to those broader framework agreements that would cover human rights to make sure that there is a link between the trade policies and those broader human rights situations. I think it's also worth noting, however, that the UN sustainability goals have suggested that human rights are a prerequisite for sustainable development. So, to think that you can divorce them completely would probably also be wrong.