6. Statement by the Chair of the Committee on Assembly Electoral Reform: An update on the work of the Committee

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:25 pm on 8 January 2020.

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Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour 4:25, 8 January 2020

Yes, thank you, Huw, I'll take that in reverse order. The final point that you made about the implications on our performance, I think, from the limited evidence that we have taken so far, the evidence that we have taken was consistent and was very clear in terms of the implications for us. If we come to a point where we are unable to expand the size of this Assembly, then I think that it is clear to everyone that we have spoken to so far that the way in which this Assembly works will have to change dramatically. And there will probably have to be some recommendations that many Members of this place would find unpalatable.

And if I say to you that one of the things that was even suggested to us, which would be hugely unpalatable to me and to most Members in this room, was that we may have to put a pause on devolution itself if we are not in a position to carry out our functions effectively. What those people were talking about was that we would have to say, in terms of further powers, that if we are unable to take on further powers more effectively, then we may have to say that we can't and we may have to look at the powers that we already have and say that we can no longer carry through those powers unless we can do them effectively. Now, I am not saying that that is something that the committee agreed with, I'm not saying that that would necessarily be one of our recommendations; what I am saying to you is that that was one of the suggestions that was coming forward from people who engage with us and were saying that we would need to seriously consider.

Other aspects of our work that we would have to look at are our working week, how many days a week this Assembly sits, how long our days may be, how many committees meet, whether we need to merge some of our committees, whether we can send people home on a Thursday or whether people have to stay here five days a week, and all of these kinds of things. If we are serious about being a law-making body that is serious about scrutinising the work of this Government, then unless we expand the capacity then we will have to take some very, very difficult and unpalatable decisions. 

In terms of the timescales, the timescale that we're working on at the moment is to produce the committee's recommendations in advance of summer recess this year with a view to coming back to the Assembly for a debate in the autumn session—so, before the autumn recess in October. That is the kind of timescale that we're working to. That may or may not slip. I don't know how much latitude the committee would be given to slip its timescale because that decision has been taken by this Assembly in terms of, you know, this is a time-limited task and finish group. I think we need to work to that timescale. The committee clerks, I have to say—. Can I offer my sincere thanks to the committee clerks who've worked very hard on producing a timetable for us, setting out very clearly the pieces of evidence that we need to take and the groups that we need to speak to during the course of our work?

That will bring me on to the point that you raised, Huw, and I touched on in my previous answer, around engagement and the engagement of citizens. What we are proposing around the engagement of citizens is that we establish a citizens assembly. The reason that we have proposed establishing a citizens assembly is that that gives us the best chance of having a very representative sample of the wider electorate in terms of age, gender, location, language—English, Welsh and so on—that we can bring together with various views, various political views, and that can be done quite scientifically, that we get people together in a kind of mini parliament, a mini kind of citizens assembly. But, and this is a big 'but', that is a very costly exercise. We would be looking to do that—. We've discussed with the clerks how we could do that in the most cost-effective way. So, we've looked at the lower end of the scale, but even at the lower end of the scale, it is not an insignificant amount of money that would be involved in running a citizens' assembly. But if we are serious about doing it, and we are serious about wanting to make sure that we have an informed opinion from the general public, then we feel that that would be money well spent. And I understand that the Assembly Commission is going to be looking at that on 27 January to hopefully approve our request for a citizens' assembly. If we don't get a citizens' assembly, then we will have to look at other ways of that public engagement, and that could be focus groups, that could be opinion polling, that could be other ways of engagement. But we're very keen that we move down this road of a very deliberative consultation with people across a wide range of views and so on.

So, the other point I think that you raised, Huw, was about the seat open for the Conservative Party, which, again, I will just reiterate what I said in response to Delyth Jewell: the seat is there for the Conservative Party to join in. I hope that we can continue our conversations with them, that they will be engaging with the work on this committee and that that they will review and reflect on their decision and will come back to us with a more positive position in the future.