Item 6 on our agenda is the debate on the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee report, 'Teaching Welsh History', and I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion, Bethan Sayed.

Motion NDM7228 Bethan Sayed

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the report of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee on the Teaching of Welsh history laid in the Table Office on 14 November.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Llywydd. First, I'd like to say that this issue has garnered widespread public interest, and while we're not the education committee, having conducted a public poll on what the public thought that we as a committee should investigate as a committee, this matter came to the fore. Over 2,500 people responded to that poll and 44 per cent said that we should look into this matter.

During the inquiry, it was clear that the concerns around the teaching of history were the most immediate. But it is true to say that culture and heritage is an integral part of our history, and therefore any developments for the future would need to look at this in more detail. Clearly, history isn't the only subject where narratives and experiences of Welsh identity are reflected, as we've been reminded, and I hope that we will have time to consider the teaching of Welsh culture through language, literature and the arts in future.

History teaching should not be confined to one particular lesson structure—we agree on that, certainly. Therefore, a wider piece of work from this committee, looking at the possibilities and how the wider school community engages with history, culture and heritage, would be something that we would welcome for the future.

In terms of the challenges of the new curriculum, these concerns were precipitated by the reforms to the Curriculum for Wales 2022. Professionals told us that the teaching of Welsh history will be diluted when it will be taught within the humanities area of learning and experience, alongside religious studies, geography and business studies. Academics and teaching unions told us that this approach would mean that students wouldn't have the chance to develop the rigour of historical analysis they need to study the subject at degree level.

Most importantly, everyone who came to speak to us called for all pupils to learn common themes and events. A typical comment came from Dr Elin Jones, who said that there are certain key periods in Welsh history when there are developments that are central to the formation of an individual identity in Wales. That's why I'm disappointed that the Government has rejected our recommendation to include a common body of knowledge for all pupils studying history in the new curriculum. The evidence we heard was that learning about key events will allow all pupils to have an understanding of how their country has been shaped by local and national events within the wider context.

The Government told us that the Curriculum for Wales 2020:

'is a purpose-led curriculum which moves away from specifying lists of "topics/content" to be taught.'

They also said:

'The flexibility of the new Curriculum will enhance this learning by allowing teachers to deliver lessons in more creative ways better suited to the learners they teach.'

This will means that learners across Wales will have very different experiences of learning about Welsh history. This flexibility is what prompted the concern of practitioners who told us that there were certain elements of our shared history that are too important to omit. Gaynor Legall from the Heritage and Cultural Exchange said, and I quote:

'I want the kids who live in the docks...to know about north Wales...as much as I want the people in Harlech...to know about the docks and about the coal industry...because it's about Wales. This is our country, and we need to know the total of how we got here, and, more importantly, how we're going to move forward. And we can only move forward together.'

Crucially, Race Council Cymru told us that black history should be specified as part of the new curriculum, and it should not be optional. Surely if the new curriculum is supposed to be a vision for Wales, then we should ensure that all learners in Wales have the same chance to understand the events that have shaped us as a nation and built our identity? Giving more flexibility in terms of the teaching of Welsh history wouldn't actually hinder the ability of teachers to be creative within that system. Welsh teachers are talented enough to adapt to such an approach.

In terms of resources, the new curriculum will place a new responsibility on teachers to develop materials that interpret the landscapes, identities, and histories that make up pupils' cynefin. But teaching unions have said that the Government's allocation of an additional £24 million for the whole of the curriculum roll-out is nowhere near enough. Professor Calvin Jones from Cardiff Business School told us that the current funding for schools was pretty dire and another £200 million a year was needed to deliver education fit for the future. He said, and I quote:

'The new curriculum requires much wider areas of learning and it also requires teachers to be more autonomous, to be more flexible and to create more content themselves'.

And that with current funding:

'to ask teachers to do that job, it's just unfair.'

In terms of diversity, I've already touched upon this, but we also heard that we need to reflect the diverse history of Wales. I'm really pleased that the committee did look at this in some detail, which I don't think has happened previously in this Senedd. We are not reassured that it is definitely going to be included under the new curriculum's emphasis on locality. We called for ethnic and religious diversity to be included as a core element of the new curriculum. In response, the Government has said that the new curriculum will be broad, balanced, inclusive and challenging. But if diversity is not prescribed, then how will it ensure that every school teaches the history of our BAME communities? We have heard that it isn't happening sufficiently and we do need to ensure that it can happen if there are to be changes made. 

Again, if the new curriculum allows teachers flexibility to tailor the content they deliver to the extent described already by the Minister and her team, then there’s a risk that the next generation of school leavers will have had totally unique experiences that may not add up to a shared sense of the history that formed our nation and informs our politics. This is especially pertinent in the context of the fact that we still do not recruit enough BME teachers in our schools to be role models and key influencers in relation to the content of the curriculum.

And in terms of the Estyn review, the committee felt it was crucial to have a sound evidence base on the content and standard of current teaching. We were told by Dr Steve Thompson from Aberystwyth University that most Welsh history has been offered in the context of a British history module where there are tokenistic Welsh history elements added. We heard concerns from Dr Elin Jones that since she chaired a task and finish group on this topic in 2013, there has been a lack of progress in this area. She voiced the frustration of many of our stakeholders when she said that we have no specific evidence of what actually happens in schools at the moment. We should be concerned if there isn't sufficient evidence there. That's why I’m pleased that the education Minister has accepted our recommendation to remit Estyn to review the extent to which schools are teaching Welsh content. I look forward to hearing more details as to when this will happen and a reassurance that Estyn will have sufficient resources to do it thoroughly. We want the widest possible range of schools to be included in the review.

I will finish by saying that we are disappointed that the Government has rejected our recommendations for all students to learn a common body of knowledge about the history that has shaped our nation. As I've said, on the issue of diversity specifically, if we don't have enough teachers teaching from one perspective, then how can a school in Ceredigion, perhaps, which doesn't have enough teachers from diverse backgrounds, going to be able to teach them about the broad history that they need to learn about here in Wales? It doesn't happen at the moment. We've heard that from Race Council Cymru and EYST and we need to expand upon this in order to ensure that young people in Wales leave our schools not only knowing about their cynefin which is very laudable, but also know about Wales on a national level and how Wales has shaped the world internationally, not only from a British perspective, but certainly also from a Welsh perspective, which will enable them to see the world in an entirely different way from the way that they would've seen the world as part of the education system that I was part of, certainly.

So, I look forward to the debate. We have had quite some discussion among the people of Wales on this issue. There's great interest in this area, and I hope that we can all work towards drawing up an education system that is successful and fit for purpose. Thank you.

Martin Luther King said that we are not the makers of history but we are made by history, and it's certainly the case that the history of our communities forges the thinking and the values of our communities, so understanding where we have come from and what we do is fundamentally important. 

This has been a tremendous exercise. It's an area I've written about from time to time, about the lack of knowledge and understanding of our community history and our political and social history, and I do very much hope that it's something that's going to be rectified within our curriculum and within teaching. But I do not underestimate some of the points that Bethan has made and the challenge in terms of the training and preparation of teachers to be able to deliver the curriculum and, in particular, to have the flexibility and understanding to deliver the community part of history and the materials and resources that are required for that.

I'll just give a few examples of the communities I represent, and I've spoken about this when I've visited schools, to try and ascertain what is the level of understanding. And it is an area where there is an enormous amount of work that has to be done. Llantrisant in my community—everyone knows of Dr William Price, a renowned doctor, a Chartist, a neo-druid and an eccentric. A major impact he had on the issue of cremation, which led to the first crematorium, operating crematorium, in Britain in 1924 in Glyntaff. When I did ask about it, in fact, the only thing people seemed to know was that 20,000 people turned up to his funeral and, by midday, 29 pubs in the town had run dry of beer. Yet, in actual fact, his challenge on cremation represented a significant change in terms of the law as regards church law and the secularisation of law—fundamentally important.

The Llantrisant bowmen—the battle of Crécy, the role that was played and what has been inherited by them to this very day through succession through the female line and the importance now of the ongoing rights and privileges and what that represents for the history of the area. Brown Lenox—such an important part it played in the development of Pontypridd and in the industrial revolution, yet all people seem to know is that they built the chains for the Titanic, when, in actual fact, they didn't, they built them for the Queen Mary and the Queen Elizabeth. But it's part of that mythology.

And, importantly, things like the Taff Vale judgment—1901, a major ruling by the court that took away fundamental trade union rights, which led to the Trade Disputes Act 1906, a fundamental step in the democratisation of our society and the empowerment and the recognition of the rights of workers to organise. And, in the Pontypridd area itself, one of the founders of the co-operative retail movement, William Hazell—a movement that actually continued within the retail sector up until 1985, after the miners' strike, when Lady Windsor Colliery actually closed.

Now, all those are things—and there are many, many more of these—but the question is: how are they going to be taught within our schools? Who actually knows about them? Where are the materials? Teachers, when they come to schools, are frequently not from the area that they actually teach in. How do we ensure that there is that training, that there are those materials and so on, for people to actually engage, and then the organisation with the residues of these organisations that often still exist in heritage societies?

So, that, for me, is really the big challenge of this, because I think all the commitments are there in terms of the importance of our communities, of understanding our history, where we come from, the key people within that, within a broader Welsh history and within a broader international history, and it seems to me that there are very major issues with regard to whether we can actually really deliver this and whether we can deliver it consistently and how we can actually deliver it, and I suspect that the same is true, if we all look around, of all our communities around Wales, where we will have our examples of that history and probably have the same concerns as to where that fits.

It is a big challenge, but I do think that it is a challenge that we have to rise to. I think this has been an excellent report, a really important and historic report for this Assembly, and I hope that very, very serious consideration will be given to those aspects of it that are so important for our future education system and our future children and citizens. Thank you.

The philosopher Michael Oakeshott said that beyond bare facts, 1066 and all that—perhaps I should say 1282—history is an act of making—it was interesting how Mick started—or at least apprehension, a seeking for understanding. And each generation does that, and it requires great skill. Our great-great grandparents would have put the battle of Bosworth as one of the main items that forged Welsh identity. I don't suppose—. Well, only a fraction of children would now learn about that, but we had great pageants in Cardiff castle re-enacting it and just how that demonstrated the return of Arthur in the form of the Tudors, if you want to be really, really fancy about it. But it's just layer on layer of how different generations approach things.

I'm not quite sure if it was Dr John Davies or R. Davies—it was a 'Davies' historian of massive stature—who said that medieval Welsh society was the medieval equivalent, really, of the Gurkhas, and that martial society committed to the most ferocious type of warfare—that's what was the great speciality and what kept many men in employment, not just all around Britain but Europe.

Well, now, we would be taught, quite rightly, much more about our nineteenth-century tradition of seeking peace and harmony, and in the twentieth century as well, and the goodwill message that children send through the Urdd and these things. Wales at the Reformation was highly Catholic—probably with East Anglia and Lancashire the strongest areas to hold out. Protestantism was rejected with a passion amongst the people, who very much liked their faith tradition and their folk religion, with its colour and all its ceremonies. But, then, in the eighteenth century, the turn to nonconformity was absolutely massive, and had such an important influence, really, on making modern Wales.

So, there are all sorts of threads there that require deep understanding. I suppose the art of history is to do that without imposing our preferences on those former generations of Welsh men and women, because they lived real lives. Those values were really important to them, and they're radically different, many of them, from the way we think today.

I do notice in this whole area that it's been contentious for some time—I think Leighton Andrews was the first Minister to say that we needed to look at the history curriculum, and then commissioned Dr Elin Jones to write a report, which we found very, very useful as a base to our study.

Can I say that I welcome broadly the Government's response to our report? But, it's unfortunate that recommendation 2, which is that some sort of guidance needs to be given about the thread that students should be getting, in terms of what the significant events are and then how they may be interpreted—I think that is very useful in a national story. I do notice that, despite rejecting recommendation 2, you are committed to developing new resources, and that, I think, is hugely welcome.

I do think that the historical understanding of our culture is really important, because if we don't do it, then I don't think those outside Wales are really going to be convinced of a need to look at us, and to look at the unique experience we have in terms of the emergence of Wales and its place in Britain and, indeed, the wider world.

I do think that the public understanding of Welsh history and culture throughout the UK is something that we should look at—it was one of the suggestions I made at one point in the committee—because the history of Wales is of British and European importance. Some institutions around the rest of Britain, in London or—. I went to the National Museum of Scotland, and I asked for some materials on the kingdom of Strathclyde, that great repository of Welsh culture, in terms of its literature—many of our texts were found there. I had very blank looks, I have to say, because it's not really part of the national Scottish story, so why was I asking that? But actually, we have five national stories in these islands—the four home nations and Britain. I think the way we try to apprehend and understand them today is really, really important for our cultural integrity and, indeed, the way we make use of the very rich resources that have come in our heritage, but also, then, how we fashion them today. Thank you.

Can I commend what I also think is a tremendous report from the committee on the importance of Welsh history? Obviously, the genesis of this report was by popular demand, as the Chair outlined in her excellent opening remarks. I too am a bit disappointed that recommendation 2 has been rejected. It seems to dilute the centrality of the need for people in Wales to know their history, not just of Wales but internationally as well.

Can I also commend the other contributions? Mick Antoniw, David Melding, excellent, because we all come at this from different backgrounds, if you like, but it's all there to celebrate the richness and diversity of the people of Wales today, because people in Wales need to know where we've all collectively come from as a diverse population, what has happened to us on the way, to inform what we are doing now collectively and where we are going in the future. Just one aspect.

When I speak Welsh sometimes or address a meeting that would otherwise be entirely in English, there are some individuals who may complain, particularly online later: 'Oh Dai, leave it go, lighten up, always banging on in Welsh, you can speak English.' But in evaluating our history as a nation and the history of the Welsh language, which encompasses centuries of oppression and bloodletting, such as the wars fought, the Act of Union 1536 that banned the use of the Welsh language in any public post for over four centuries, the Merthyr rising, the Chartists and the Rebecca riots in Victorian times, all co-ordinated and arranged through the medium of Welsh. That led to brad y llyfrau gleision, the treachery of the blue books, and abolished the use of the Welsh language from Welsh schools entirely, facing the Welsh Not and the threat of the use of the cane. My own grandfather and his generation suffered the cane for insisting on using the Welsh language in school over a century ago. He would be proud, I'm sure, to hear his grandson's generation addressing his nation's Parliament in that very same language today without facing corporal punishment. So, let it go? No, I don't think so. 

And 562,000 people can speak Welsh in the last census, 19 per cent of the population. That is a cause for absolute celebration and wonder that Welsh has defied all attempts at obliteration over the centuries.

Now, bloodthirsty histories are not unique. Our particular bloodthirsty history here in Wales has, though, fuelled our absolute desire that our language will survive, that Wales will survive against all odds. Yma o hyd, yn wir. It's not to be taken lightly at all; otherwise, we betray the sufferings and commitments of previous generations that insisted on being Welsh and speaking Welsh despite punishment. But, as I said, that's just one aspect of Wales's history. 

I've got no time, really, to dwell on Tryweryn—that's why I'm looking to the school history lessons—dwell on Tryweryn or the exploitations of the coal industry—Mick touched on them—or Aberfan, all of that. So many injustices, so little time. And there's a load of inspiring people. We've heard about them. Can I just add a few more? Robert Recorde invented the equals sign. He was from Tenby. William Grove from Swansea invented the photovoltaic cell, forerunner of the battery, in 1843. It's in NASA spaceships today. All those American presidents with Welsh roots. David Lloyd George, yes; Aneurin Bevan; Frank Lloyd Wright, internationally renowned architect, who grew up in a Welsh-speaking family with Welsh-speaking neighbours, not in rural Ceredigion but in rural Wisconsin in the United States in the 1860s.

So, our history reminds us that Wales and its people have accomplished stunning achievements in many fields. Wales has been independent in the past. It has had over 1 million Welsh speakers in the past, so let our history inspire our future. Diolch yn fawr. 

I do think this is a very worthwhile and significant report that we're discussing today, because education is so vitally important and because history is such a big part and must be such a big part of education. Obviously, all of us need to have as good an understanding as we can arrive at in terms of the history of the world, our local history, our national history, if we're really going to understand the past and, of course, its relevance to the present and the future. It's also very important, I believe, for our sense of place and sense of identity, which is really important in terms of having a base from which to sally forth into the world, that we have that sense of history, and particularly, I think, that sense of local and national history.

What I'd like to emphasise today, Dirprwy Lywydd, is that I do believe that in many respects teaching history should begin with local history before building up to regional and national history, and from there European and international, because I think it's easier to engage children and people generally in history if you use their local surroundings, place names, names of areas, industrial history, and, indeed, the history of diverse communities.

Growing up in Newport, and going to a primary school in a multi-ethnic area, it's disappointing, I think—I know it was a long time ago—but disappointing to look back and reflect on the lack of any of that in my education at the time. There was very little that I remember about local history even though we had the industrial history of the docks, the industrial history of coal and steel coming through those docks, the chartist uprising in Newport, which was so significant in terms of the fight for democracy much further afield than Newport itself, and, of course, the diversity where we had waves of inward migration, such as my own mother coming to Newport as part of the Irish emigration and immigration, and, of course, West Indian and Asian.

None of that was reflected very much, if at all, as I recall in my education in primary school. And in terms of the Welsh language, as I recall, I don't think we even learned the national anthem in Welsh. So, so much was lacking, and I know we've made a lot of progress since then, but I do believe there is still quite a lot of work yet to do and I think this report encapsulates much of that and sets it out in a very concise and focused way, and I do believe the recommendations are very important and I welcome the response from Welsh Government to many of those recommendations, though not all.

I think it is important in terms of diversity that we reflect on the evidence that the committee received, Dirprwy Lywydd, and that we do involve Ethnic Youth Support Team and Race Council Cymru in helping tell that history of the inward migration and the experience of those ethnic minority populations to our children today, not just in the most diverse schools, but in schools generally.

I also think that we can make cross-reference here to another report that the culture committee has carried out on 'Count me in!' and using the arts and culture to address social exclusion. Because our museums, I think, are obviously very relevant, and our cultural and arts organisations more generally, in that effort to educate our children and that should be very much the case in terms of history. So, we should be getting the children out into the museums as much as we possibly can and to other organisations' bases, and, indeed, getting those organisations into our schools. So, I think we need to make those what I think are fairly obvious connections in how we take all of this forward.

So, for me, Dirprwy Lywydd, it really should start with local history, I think, in terms of the progress that we need to make because I think it is much easier to engage our children and young people on that basis and we can then develop the stories from that point.

It's on occasions like this that I'm sorry I'm no longer on the culture committee. I'm a bit disappointed, Dai, that you didn't mention the fantastic Richard Price of Llangeinor, who is, of course, our regional hero. I must admit, I do worry about the place of Welsh history—[Interruption.] [Laughter.] Oh, he's top of the dramatis personae—come on. I already worry about the place of Welsh history, not just, actually, on our curriculum, but on the curricula of the other nations of the UK as a source of knowledge, understanding and challenge, but also in our lives generally, I think, and having our own sense of who we are, where we are and when we are, really.

The recommendations on diversity in the report, which are entirely justified, and I'm very glad that the Minister's accepted those, have a wider resonance about where we fit into our own lives as well as our place in the universe, if you like—questions that are reflected in religions all round the world. But even in a secular environment such as ours, I'm sure we'll all have spent a minute or two in recent times asking those questions about, 'Am I Welsh? Am I British? Am I European?'

I think it's also fair to say that school is not the be-all and end-all for our understanding of history. It really is the epitome of lifelong learning, and we can even give a bit of a hat tip to all those film and tv producers and writers of historic fiction, including those in Wales, who recognise the high drama of our stories, be they local or global, and who capture our attention—critical to learning—and keep us interested. Never mind the accuracy, make it relatable, show the agency of human beings.

I don't think Macmillan was quite right when he complained of, 'Events, dear boy, events.' I think history is built on decisions; usually the decisions of others and, very often of course, the decisions of men. But we can have another debate about that.

This new curriculum has the potential to treat the study of history as a means of understanding and examining human nature in every bit as good a way as the study of literature. I don't think Welsh history should be confined to discrete lessons, either. But history isn't just a source of material for humanities left to teachers to extract interesting events from Welsh history just to illustrate other anthropological points. I think we already hear that too many of our schools are relying on teachers who teach classes outside their specialism, and we've agreed that this isn't the best experience for our pupils to have. Now we're asking our teachers to embrace an expanse of knowledge and experience to express the curriculum through lessons that may still be called history or maths and ensure that pupils still get enough subject knowledge to demonstrate some depth and expertise in order to pursue further study, training or work in particular fields.

Young people are still going to want qualifications at the end of compulsory education, and those exams or other assessments will still have to be quality assured and comparable with our nearest equivalents inside and outside the UK. With exams comes the issue of specification, and that implies a need for some element of prescription—that silver thread that David was talking about—to ensure that specifications are met.

This is not an exhortation to teach to the exam. I recognise and understand why the Minister has rejected recommendation 2, but I ask her and the committee, even, to consider this illustration of the challenge. This is going to be a bit of a mam brag, so apologies for that and the likely outcome of this being completely hands-off. So, my son, right? He is a recent modern history graduate with a first from a Russell Group university. That's my proud mam face. But he did his compulsory education through the medium of Welsh in a school in the town that is the home of the Owain Glyndŵr parliament, and he loved his history teacher. He studied barely any Welsh history, or even a Welsh dimension to the British history that he did do, because there was no requirement to demonstrate knowledge and understanding of Welsh history in his compulsory education. And that is very different from my own schooldays, incidentally, although even now I ask myself what I did actually learn about my cynefin.

The Minister will say that the Estyn review and the new curriculum will meet that challenge, but with the current workforce familiar with the existing, very narrow history curriculum that has squeezed out Welsh history, how can we guard against three risks?

The first is this: who would blame the current workforce, who may have little experience of teaching Welsh history, let alone in this radically different pedagogical environment, for seeking the easiest route possible to reach an acceptable minimum but no more? There is little point in having resources, as per recommendation 6, if teachers have no time to make the most of those resources, however talented and adaptable they may be.

The second is that our new teachers will have acquired these pedagogic skills that are more cross-cutting to achieve the aims that we are reminded of in the Minister's response to recommendation 7, but who are less specialist in the area of knowledge, despite her hopes to the contrary set out in that same response. You can only fit so much into one year's PGCE study, after all.

Third and finally, Dirprwy Lywydd. The third is that Welsh history could be seen as a fix for this local identity of the curriculum, and will find itself expressed in coursework and experiential learning rather than also being considered as an appropriate subject for the academic testing element, which must be a component of GCSEs or their successors, which will still matter for the reasons I gave earlier, and I don't think any of us would want that. Thank you.

I thank the committee for this important report. I would like to take the opportunity this afternoon to question the Minister on some of the issues arising from her responses to the committee report—firstly, the thematic review that Estyn is going to be doing, looking at the arrangements for teaching Welsh history at schools. Have the terms of reference been agreed and what is the timetable for publishing that work? This needs to happen quickly. I presume that the report will confirm what we already know, namely that there are pockets of very good practice, but that a lack of consistency is the most obvious feature, with some schools failing to present anything to their pupils about the history of Wales. We do need that evidence—I agree that that needs to happen quickly.

As others have mentioned, the response to recommendation 2 is extremely disappointing. The recommendation asks for guidance setting out a common body of information for all pupils studying history. As I said yesterday, when discussing first aid, I do understand the vision and concept of the new curriculum, and I welcome the flexibility it will give teachers, but I think that some issues, including Welsh history, deserve greater clarity and certainty. As things stand, the certainty that every child will be taught fully about our country's history is absent, and the new curriculum will not improve the situation without clear guidance. Without that, there is a risk that things will be made worse, and that's what I'm concerned about. I have suggested changing 'history', under the humanities heading, to 'Welsh history and the world', so that at least a Welsh perspective will be given to the learning. Is that something the Minister is willing to consider?

I'm very pleased that you in your response to the committee's report are commissioning new resources. That’s very good news. What are the details of that, please, and what is the timetable for their publication? I see from your response to the report that you say that this will be driven by the Estyn inspection, which is another very good reason for having a tight timetable and an early publication of that inspection. Having a body of dedicated resources referring to key events and topics in the history of Wales and the world is vital. Many have already been published, of course, and I know that they're available on Hwb and so forth, but how do you intend to bring all this together, and how will the resources ensure that our young people come to learn about the basic elements of our long history and not just unconnected chunks of it?

While talking a long journey over Christmas, I had the opportunity to listen to one of the Welsh history podcasts of the entertainer Tudur Owen. I listened to an episode entitled 'Who was Owain Glyndŵr?', with the historians Rhun Emlyn and Eurig Salisbury taking us through one of the great dramatic periods of our history. I hung on their every word and learned a wealth of interesting new information, and, indeed, I was completely captivated by the experience of listening to these young historians talking so intelligently and passionately about their subject. The trip was over in no time.

Our history is full of excitement, but at the moment most of us are being deprived of it. Plaid Cymru in Government would rectify that. In the meantime, I urge the current Government to ensure that every child and young person in Wales can learn about the history of Wales and the world in every school across our country.

I wasn't going to speak in this debate—I only put the request in when I heard the Chair's opening comments. I very much welcome the committee's work and recommendations to promote local and Welsh history. And it was only on Saturday that I was being lobbied by constituents specifically to ask the education Minister to include the teaching of our local heroes in schools. And it was on Saturday because it was 100 years to the day that we were commemorating the hundredth anniversary of the death of Pryce Jones, who was born and died in Newtown and changed the world. He was the founder of mail order, and he was the forerunner of Amazon. But, sadly, if you asked schoolchildren in Newtown, the chances are they would not know that fact. And the heritage hub for Newtown, promoting the event, was intending to ask the education Minister to consider what your report is outlining today.

But in Montgomeryshire, and in Newtown specifically, we have a number of local heroes. In fact, we've just named four new roundabouts after them on the Newtown bypass: Robert Owen, Pryce Jones, Laura Ashley and David Davies of Llandinam. But I know the education Minister can expect a letter—because I've seen a draft of the letter this morning and is on its way to her—from the heritage hub for mid Wales, asking for our local heroes to be included in the school curriculum. And the letter sets out also that on 14 May next year we will be celebrating a very special anniversary of the legacy of Robert Owen. And I should say, in 1816, Robert Owen opened the first free infant school in the UK.

This is perhaps where I disagree with David Melding who said, in his contribution, 'If we don't shout about our local heroes here in Wales, then nobody else will.' But, in fact, the—

New Lanark.

Yes, New Lanark points out, of course, there that—they've capitalised on Robert Owen. So, if other parts of the country can shout and talk about our local Welsh heroes, then surely that's what we should be doing in Wales and in our schools.

Can I call the Minister for Education, Kirsty Williams?

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer, for the opportunity to respond on behalf of the Government to the committee's report on the teaching of Welsh history, heritage and culture. As has already been noted during the debate, we have accepted all of the recommendations in full or in principle bar one. I can confirm that Estyn will undertake a review of the teaching of Welsh history, and this review will take place over the coming months, and its terms of reference will be informed by the committee's recommendations.

I will now turn to wider issues—those raised in the report and in this afternoon's debate. Clearly, this is a subject that stirs strong passions, perspectives and interpretations. And let me be clear, Deputy Presiding Officer, I am fully committed to the new curriculum's innovative approach to the theme of cynefin as the starting point for study. It will run through each of the areas of learning and experience. Learners will be grounded in an understanding of the identities, landscapes and histories that come together to form their cynefin.

In writing about the ongoing contemporary influence of Christian thought, the historian Tom Holland recently wrote that it was like dust particles—so fine as to be invisible, breathed in equally by everyone. Analysing, understanding and questioning the histories and stories of Wales, our communities and our neighbours should not and cannot be limited to a history lesson—it will be breathed in by everyone across the curriculum. Therefore, it's interesting to note that, although the committee was looking into the teaching of Welsh history, heritage and culture, I couldn't find a single reference to literature, sport, film or drama. And that's a real shame, as it gives the impression that history—or more accurately, histories—is only a matter for one lesson and one subject.

It is my expectation that in the new curriculum, the histories of Wales will be unlocked, discovered and analysed, as learners are encouraged to, for instance, explore Shakespeare or R.S. Thomas and Mererid Hopwood, scrutinise the role of sport as an expression of national identity, or perhaps contrast and compare the histories portrayed in Pride with those in House of America. Now, this is not to dismiss history as a discipline—I'm a student of it myself—but as Sarah Morse, from the Learned Society of Wales has put it:

'History isn't the only subject where narratives and experiences of Wales are reflected'.

And it's unfortunate that the committee didn't have enough time to get this full breadth and depth.

If I can, then, turn to the one recommendation that we rejected—that of listing key events and topics to be studied by all learners. Now, I have some sympathy with the rationale of the committee in making this recommendation, however, at the very heart of the new curriculum is the principle that learners benefit when their teachers are allowed the flexibility to tailor the content of lessons to their needs and to their local context. In order to deliver this flexibility, we need to ensure that the curriculum is not structured as a tick-box list of content to be studied.

And my goodness me, Deputy Presiding Officer, we only have to listen to the contributions from around the room this afternoon to understand what a process it would be to list those very subjects. And can I say, Russell George, there is nothing to stop the primary schools of Newtown talking about your local heroes, and they certainly don't need permission from me to do so. I will give you an example from my own constituency, where the Ystradgynlais History Society has created a number of booklets about people from that community, with financial help from the Welsh Government, actually, which have been distributed to schools. So, they certainly don't need permission in Newtown from the education Minister to engage in those lessons.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

It wasn't meant to be a criticism, it was just an observation. But I think, more importantly, the wider point I was making was that some of these local heroes can be talked about not just in Newtown but right across Wales in our schools. That was the wider point that I was making.

Indeed they can. And, again, there is nothing in the proposals for our new curriculum that would prevent that from happening. 

We will be working with practitioners to commission new resources that do refer to key events and topics in the histories of Wales and the world. And it is my expectation that these will provide a very real foundation as we move forward in the next two and a half years before the curriculum is rolled out. We are currently working with a number of bodies to assess what will be needed, although in the context, again, of Welsh history, the Learned Society for Wales said that a lack of resources isn't necessarily an issue. 

Now, within the context of learning that moves and looks outwards from one's own cynefin, I would expect that there are basics of our history that will be key to fulfilling the curriculum's purpose of becoming an informed citizen. For instance, in building on the extensive resources that are already available, we can look forward to analysis of key events and topics such as the world wars of the last century, the race riots 100 years ago, Wales's constitutional journey, the story of Cymraeg, Dai, and the development of the welfare state. Now, these and other topics will be studied and interpreted from a local perspective and then drawing links to the national and the international. 

So, on the history of the language, for example, in my patch the context may very well be the Epynt clearances, which actually removed Welsh-speaking families from that part of Breconshire and moved the line where Welsh was spoken within the community. But further north in Powys, in Russell George's patch, perhaps we could have conversations about Bishop William Morgan's Bible and the absolute influence of his work in Llanrhaeadr-ym-Mochnant with regard to the language, or explore the connections between place names further afield, as to why there is a Trelew in Argentina; why is there a Brynmawr in Pennsylvania? And we must remember that diversity of perspective and analysis is important as we move forward. So, let's not forget our role in the slave trade. Let's analyse why so many Welsh teachers and parents acquiesced to the use of the Welsh Not, and let's not forget, just as we are arguably the original colony, we also contributed to building the empire. 

So, make no mistake, studying the history and histories of Wales is important to the fulfilment of the purposes of the new curriculum. To be an engaged, informed and ethical citizen, learners will make sense of their identity and that history, cultures and geography helped shape it. And I'm pleased that this issue remains a priority for so many people here in the Senedd and has led to some of the best debates that we've had. I hope that I have been able to further explain how we are taking these matters forward.

The additional support, professional learning and guidance that is being developed will enable schools to take forward improved, enhanced and expanding studies of our history across the six areas of learning and experience, and I can once again confirm the histories and stories of Wales will be a core aspect of each and every area of learning and experience across the curriculum.

Now, the approaches here in the Chamber this afternoon have, in some ways, accepted the principles that lie behind the very foundation of our new curriculum, but they have come with a large 'but'. If we are to trust our teachers, the first step is trusting them in the design of this curriculum, because this curriculum has been co-constructed with history specialists, with the teachers who work, day in, day out, with our children. It has been constructed with the expertise from our universities and further education colleges. They have delivered and designed this curriculum. I absolutely back that spirit of co-construction and the approach that they have taken to cynefin and what that will lead to for a rich learning experience for our children. Diolch yn fawr.

I call on Bethan Sayed to reply to the debate.

Diolch. I know I won't have time to reflect on everybody's contributions, but I am grateful as well for the wealth of contributions that we've had and the wealth of interest that we've had in this debate here today. It only goes to show the emphasis we all put on our own histories and our own version of histories, and I guess that's where I think the Minister is saying that putting a line through what are the most important aspects would be difficult. But I think we were trying to be helpful in saying that, in some parts of Wales, for example, you may have a wealth of talent and resource to be able to teach a certain issue, because it is part of the cynefin, because it is part of the local politic of the area, but in another part of Wales that same type of learning may not therefore be able to be transported.

I feel I learnt this most from those who came forward from the black and minority ethnic community, from Race Council Cymru and the Ethnic Minorities and Youth Support Team. I feel sometimes we do talk from a position of privilege, because we can go on about flexibility, but if you haven't got the teachers from that particular community in the classrooms with that background you simply will not, potentially, be taught about the race riots or about how colonialism works. I was never taught about how we have taken part in the destruction of countries across the world as part of the British empire, and why I think having a thread is important is because I want to be certain that schools across Wales will at least have some element of that.

Because we know now that, as amazing as some of these teachers will be, in various different topics they may not be aware or, because they haven't had that lived experience, they may not then be able to transfer that. And teachers say that to me all the time as well: 'I don't feel confident to be able to do that type of history or transfer that type of history to the people that I teach.' But it's not saying that they're not good; it's just acknowledging that they may need more resource or may need more support to get to that point. I stand by the committee's view that we should have more than just that flexibility in our education system, because, at the end of the day, as I think a few of you said, we will need qualifications at the end of this. We will need to know how we can then ensure that all of the students of Wales are leaving with that baseline qualification to go out into the real world and to share that knowledge with others.

I appreciate what has been said with regard to the wider curriculum, but I also said at the beginning that we would like to return to this as a committee to look at literature and other aspects of the curriculum; we were pressed for time in that regard. For example, I know from the area I represent, in Port Talbot, some of the local councillors have funded street art in the area based on the story of Dic Penderyn. Now, that's got nothing to do with the history curriculum in the classroom, but it's got everything to do with how we teach it in a very different way, in a creative way. So, please don't think that we've ignored it; it's just what we've managed to do within the timeline that we had as a committee.

I'm not sure I've got much time left. I know that Mick Antoniw made very strong points in relation to social issues and with regard to the industrial revolution. I know that that's something that we will want to share across Wales and we will want to challenge teachers on in terms of how they project that to the rest of the world. But David Melding made a very good point, when we were in committee, that we shouldn't just be looking at this as an educational system approach, but a public approach. There are adults out there now who may not understand many aspects of their own history. How do we make sure that we can project that public history and that understanding?

Dai Lloyd we would have expected to have been passionate about the areas that he spoke about. But it's true, you know. We don't want to politicise the language now for political purposes, but it has come from a very political place, where the language has been thwarted over the years, and it's something we must remind future generations about, or they won't know the core as to where it's come from.

In relation to John Griffiths, I'm very laid back in relation to whether you should start with localism or whether you should start with international issues. It may be that there's something that the school wants to focus on that isn't necessarily local. But I do get what you're saying, if you start really close to home, then it means something tangible to you, and it means something that you can look at and visit. I think you made a really good point about the poverty report in relation to museums and how we can weave in visits and such into our curriculum much more so, and I hope that the teachers will be doing that. St Fagans is a massive resource already for people to tap into.

Quickly, then, with regard to what Suzy Davies said—and well done to your son, on the mam brag, for the degree, that was very—. I agree with a lot of what you said in terms of specification, and I understand that we need to ensure that we have a local understanding of what we are teaching as well.

Just to finish: Russell George, thank you for taking part in the debate at the last moment. All I would say is perhaps, if you've got roundabouts to be named after people of influence, Laura Ashley's could be decorated with something a bit more interesting than grass and a bit of shrubbery. She is a fashion queen, so we need to have more.

Leanne made a point from a sedentary position: we also have to think about how many women are part of our history. We had a lot of names of men there, didn't we? We have to try to mix this up a bit with how influential women can be key players in our history and how we teach about the history of Wales. That's what I'll finish on. Diolch yn fawr.

The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. The motion is, therefore, agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.