7. What actions is the Welsh Government taking to ensure high welfare standards in breeding establishments in Wales? OAQ55004

Thank you. Officials are working with local authorities to explore opportunities to ensure consistent treatment of all licensed breeding establishments across Wales. This work, to look at ways of combining resources and expertise and improving training for local authority officers, will help target enforcement more consistently and effectively.

Thank you for that answer. But there was a recent report from Carmarthenshire County Council into dog breeding in the county, and there are 85 licensed dog breeders in Carmarthenshire. That is one of the highest numbers in Wales and England, and about 10 of those breeders have over 100 dogs. And what struck me particularly in the report is that, in some cases, officers were only carrying out checks every two years instead of annual establishment inspections, and I don't think that that is in any way at all acceptable. It does raise some serious questions as to why the council is continuing to give out licences when they don't have an adequate number of staff to carry out annual inspections, and the workload is clearly too high for two officers who are employed.

The other issue that is fairly obvious when we look at the standards of breeding establishments is at the moment, it is perfectly acceptable to put down anything, it seems to me—a shed that isn't necessarily heated and there isn't water available—just to breed animals. And part of this report mentioned that farmers need to diversify. I don't think that they are giving adequate information to farmers who do want to diversify if they're not widening the opportunities and information available and are going down this single trajectory. 

I need a question from you now, Joyce Watson.

So my question is: will you consider reviewing the number of licences a local authority can issue according to the ratio of inspectors that they currently have?

I know that Joyce Watson was in the Chamber to hear my earlier answers around dog breeding, and this is clearly one of the areas that the chief veterinary officer, in her discussions with local authorities, has encountered. So, we need to look at those barriers again, making sure that the legislation we currently have is being enforced, and explore opportunities to maximise the use of existing resources. So, as I said in an earlier answer, it's about making sure that we've got that spread across Wales where we have local authorities who only have a single figure. As I say, Torfaen, I think, has one, and you've got areas such as those you referred to in Carmarthenshire that has got multiple licences.

I think the ratio of breeding premises across local authorities is absolutely disproportionate, and it means that some local authorities are really struggling to cope with demands. So, this work is to look at a way of sharing that resource and expertise, and I think that really will target enforcement much more effectively.

Minister, I recently met with my constituents David and Elaine Williams and their dog Cindy, who herself was saved from a puppy farm, to learn more about how to stop the cruel practice through Lucy's law. I know that this is something that has gathered cross-party support, and it's crucial now that as Lucy's law comes into force in England in April, Wales isn't, of course, left behind.

However, in the meantime, and following on from Joyce Watson's question, what discussions have you and your officials had with local authorities about ways in which they can better enforce the licensing of puppy farms in Wales, and how is the Welsh Government proactively encouraging dog lovers to actually buy from reputable breeders?

I'm sorry, Presiding Officer, I don't think Paul Davies was in the Chamber before to hear my earlier answers about the work we're doing around Lucy's law. I mentioned that the chief veterinary officer has met with all—well, apart from one local authority, 21 local authorities around this particular issue, to ensure that we understand what the barriers are to the enforcement of the current legislation. Just bringing in Lucy's law would not, I don't think, rid us of the illegal puppy farming that we all want to see gone.

You make a really important point at the end, though, about individuals. It really is up to the person who is purchasing a dog that they buy it from a reputable breeder—we had a campaign in the run-up to Christmas to encourage that—and for individuals to ask questions and perhaps to ask, if they're shown into a kitchen, maybe, to see the puppies, to see other parts of the breeder's property. So, it is about bringing it all together. We've already had those conversations that have started with local authorities. I will be making a statement after the February recess.