Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:47 pm on 4 February 2020.
I'm grateful to the Member. It will surprise him, no doubt, that I'm about to agree with him, as somebody who worked in the criminal justice system for a long time. When I was in practice in the early 1990s towards 2000, we used to look at other countries where people had no access to legal advice and be appalled that they would be representing themselves in quite serious matters in court with no legal representation whilst being prosecuted by a professional prosecutor. Does he agree with me that that's exactly now where we are in England and Wales and that we've gone back some 200 years?