I have accepted an emergency question under Standing Order 12.67, and I call on Janet Finch-Saunders to ask the emergency question.

Will the Minister make a statement on Welsh Government efforts to alleviate the situation facing residents in the Conwy Valley following recent floods? (EAQ0007)

I have today issued a written statement regarding flooding from storm Ciara. The impacts have been felt across Wales, in particular, in Llanrwst and Llanfair Talhaiarn. My sympathies are with those flooded anywhere in Wales, and I thank the local authorities, emergency services and Natural Resources Wales teams, working tirelessly in some appalling conditions to keep us safe. Where there has been flooding, local authorities now need the opportunity to investigate and report their findings. Our investment will continue to support local authorities and NRW to develop further flood alleviation schemes, where they will be effective at preventing future flooding.

Thank you, Minister. Yet again, Aberconwy, from Capel Curig to Deganwy, has been hit hard by flooding as a result of a storm Ciara. However, for my constituency, the shock and devastation is at its worst in Llanrwst, Trefriw and outlying areas. I was there yesterday, and saw first-hand the overwhelming damage that has been caused to many shops, businesses and residential properties, seeing individuals at a loss and feeling totally helpless as they fought to clear sewage and mud from their homes is heartbreaking, and constituents telling me again how distraught and vulnerable they feel, and that this is the worst flooding they have ever experienced, many having lived decades there. But at this point, however, I too would like to put on record my thanks to the emergency services, the local authority, and all residents for the selflessness that they have shown in trying to help each other, and the community, to deal with such devastation. It was remarkable to witness the community spirit that has arisen from such a disaster.

Minister, this is not the first time that I have raised the frequent flooding of the Conwy Valley with you. Just two weeks ago I submitted a written Assembly question asking what steps you were taking to hold an independent review of flood mitigation measures for the Conwy Valley. My reason was the frequency of these flood incidents in these parts. Now, you replied, stating that

'Natural Resources Wales reviewed the Conwy Valley flood alleviation scheme in 2018. The review confirmed communities in the Conwy Valley are benefiting from reduced flood risk as a result of the scheme at this time. There are no plans to carry out any further reviews.'

Now, Minister, it's flooded since 2018. As you well know, it flooded last year about this time. So, I consider that response to be woefully inadequate, and that it now certainly needs a rethink on your part.

So, question 1: can the Minister tell me why the usual flood warnings by NRW were not in place in adequate time, bearing in mind the numerous news bulletins that storm Ciara was on its way? Two: as this has now been considered a significant incident, what funding will be available from the Welsh Government to the local authority to assist with the clean-up, and how will this filter through to the very residents and businesses so badly affected? Very sadly, some of whom have no insurance because of the level of repeat flood incidents. Three: given the shocking state of events in these parts over the weekend, will you now review the advice given to you by NRW, and support the many calls within the community, and from elected Members, for an independent review of the mitigation flood measures in the Conwy Valley?

And, finally, will you come to Aberconwy, and will you visit with me some of those most affected by recent events? Diolch yn fawr. 

Well, I will be visiting later this week. Whether I can attend with you or not depends on diaries, obviously, but I certainly will be visiting later this week myself.

I think you raised several issues that need addressing. So, you're quite right, I did answer you a couple of weeks ago, and, as I said, we did have a modelling review of the Conwy Valley. That was concluded in 2018. Now, I will be expecting, obviously, the local authority and NRW to look into what needs to be done, and they will bring forward recommendations. I'm not going to speculate on the causes. It does appear that many of our river defence schemes did their job. Of course, the river levels were incredibly high, so we need to look at the recommendations that come from both the local authority and NRW.

I think there are a lot of questions to be asked. I too received copies of correspondence from some of your constituents, and I notice you've been copied in as well—concerns around the responses that were taken up, and I think you need to have a look at that and maybe take up those issues with the local authority directly. We have put significant funding, as you know, into flood defences—over £350 million across Wales in this Assembly term. But, of course, whatever recommendations come from the investigations that NRW and the local authority are doing, I will seek to see what we can do to continue to support those areas.

I again thank everyone for their response to this at the weekend. I think you make a very important point about volunteers as well, and the community. And, certainly, watching news reports last night, that was very clear to see. But as I say, I will not speculate. What we need to do is look at what caused this, and have a look at any recommendations that come from the investigation.

Would you agree with me, Minister, that the erosion that there’s been in local authority budgets and Natural Resources Wales is partly responsible for the situation we find ourselves in? Because, of course, it’s things like cleaning rivers and culverts that are cut when human resources and budgets aren’t in place. And this, of course, reminds us of a point that I’ve raised here dozens of times over the past few months, on the unsustainable trajectory that we have at the moment, where local authorities and NRW have an expectation upon them to do more and more—through the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, through the Planning (Wales) Act 2015 and so and so forth—whilst, simultaneously, their budgets are getting smaller and smaller. So, you must recognise that that trajectory is unsustainable, and some of the outcomes, as we’ve perhaps seen over the past few days, are inevitable if we are to continue on that trajectory. May I ask, therefore, what additional resources will you make available to local authorities, particularly those directly affected by the events of the past few days, as well as NRW?

Would you also agree with me that we have to change the narrative? People very often say that it costs too much to invest in flood prevention. We have to change the narrative, because the unnecessary cost is the result of the destruction, so it’s an investment to invest in flood prevention measures in order to save money in not having to deal with the outcomes, ultimately. I want to know what the Government are doing to change that narrative, in order to ensure that the support is out there, so that we can tackle climate change to the extent that we should.

And finally, one of the rivers in the Conwy Valley that flooded was Afon Cae Person, and that river, of course, did have an impact on Ysgol Dyffryn Conwy. The school was closed yesterday; the maths and technology block is still closed today for the clean-up and decontamination. This is a private finance initiative school. Now, the council therefore has refused to take responsibility for the clean-up, and, from my understanding, Sodexo, the company that would be responsible, didn’t turn up yesterday, and, as a result, it was the school caretakers who had to deal with the initial clean-up attempts. So, can you give me an assurance that companies such as Sodexo are entirely clear on their responsibilities, and are going to be responding appropriately? What assurance can you give me that there are other PFI buildings in Wales that aren’t going to find themselves under the same disadvantage in future?

Well it's certainly not the Welsh Government narrative. As I said in my earlier answer to Janet Finch-Saunders, we have put significant funding into flood alleviation schemes right across Wales, so it's certainly not our narrative. And in relation to NRW, which I fund, they have had significant funding to address flooding issues. One of the issues NRW do have at the moment is making sure they have their full quota of staff in relation to this, and my officials have been working very closely to ensure that that happens. I mentioned in my earlier answer too about what needs to be done, and what funding needs to be done. We will wait for flood and water experts to inform us of what may be required. And, certainly, I will look to see what funding we have available when those recommendations come through.

In relation to, I think you said Dyffryn Conwy school—I wasn't aware of that, but I will ask the Minister for Education to take that issue up.

Minister, flooding is obviously very devastating, and having lived through the Towyn floods—the anniversary of which will be the thirtieth anniversary, just later this month—I can testify to the huge impact that it has and the lasting legacy that it has on any families, homes and businesses that have been affected.

The people of Llanfair Talhaiarn, in my constituency, have been affected by flooding for the third time in eight years, and that's in spite of a programme of improvement, which is already under way in that particular village. And, of course, over the weekend, we saw properties, not just in Llanfair T. H., in my constituency, but also in Llangernyw, Llansannan and in Colwyn Bay affected by flooding. I think it is a concern when we are told that properties are protected to a one in 75-year standard, which is what people were told in respect of Llanfair T. H., to find themselves flooded three times in eight years.

And I know that phase 2 of an improvement project is supposed to be under way. It was supposed to be scheduled, I think, to start this spring, but hasn't actually started, and I would question whether there needs now to be a rapid review of that particular project to make sure that it is going to be fit for purpose. As I understand it, there was a problem with the maintenance of the clearing of the Nant Barrog, which overflowed and flooded those homes in Llanfair T. H., and I think people will be looking as to why that maintenance regime has been insufficient to protect them this time around.

Now, clearly, you've already alluded to the fact that there will be investigations undertaken by the local authority and indeed Natural Resources Wales, but having seen a flooding event last year in April take place in Pensarn, in my constituency, we're still yet to see a copy of the investigation report arising from that particular event. So, how long will people have to wait before they understand why the flooding has occurred and whether there was mitigation that could have been undertaken in advance of these flooding events?

You've already been questioned on the emergency financial assistance scheme. I note that, in England, the UK Government has made available the Bellwin funding for local authorities that have been affected there by storm Ciara. Can I ask that you trigger the emergency financial assistance scheme, particularly for Conwy, given that it's experienced over the weekend the worst flooding since the Towyn floods thirty years ago? And can I also ask, in the wake of this, what discussions the Welsh Government might have with the Association of British Insurers in order to make sure that there are affordable premiums in place? Now, I know that there's a UK-wide programme called Flood Re, which tries to make the insurance premium affordable in areas of flood risk, but clearly that's reliant on a partnership between Governments and the insurance industry and an understanding as to the investment that might take place. So, I would like to know what direct discussions you're having with them, because some people are telling me that they're having problems now accessing affordable insurance, and that is a great concern to them.

So, will you release investment to assist local authorities through the emergency financial assistance scheme? What work are you doing with NRW to make sure that their modelling is accurate and not inaccurate, because that's what we've seen recently? And will you have those discussions with the Association of British Insurers to make sure that these reviews and investigations that are now undertaken are rapid and don't take too long?

So, I think we all have to accept that we will see these sorts of events more frequently. This is clearly due to climate change, and I absolutely recognise the point that you make in relation to that. I've already asked officials to do a rapid review of any schemes—and we have many—in the pipeline to see what will need to be brought forward and we will do that alongside the investigation reports and the recommendations we receive.

You make a very pertinent point about insurance, and I do welcome that Flood Re is now operating right across the UK, and over 90 per cent of insurance companies do offer it for homes at high flood risk. But, of course, small businesses are not protected in that scheme, and legislation on financial services does remain a reserved matter and any costs associated with the fair delivery of that scheme rests with the UK Government. So, I will be taking that issue up also with the UK Government. 

Flood problems aren't limited to the Conwy Valley or Llanrwst. We have problems with flooding throughout north Wales. In some cases, the flood problems are exacerbated by the actions of local authorities. So, how will you be working with local authorities to make sure that the things they do with the environment, such as tree felling, for instance, in the vicinity of roads and in areas that are prone to flooding—? How are you working with local authorities to make sure that their actions in the local environment actually help prevent flooding rather than exacerbate it?

Local authorities are a very important partner in all that we do to alleviate flood risk, and those sorts of conversations will take place, for instance, when we're looking at putting forward a flood-alleviation scheme. I know those discussions have taken place already. I think it's also really important to recognise the work that local authorities do at a time such as we've seen at the weekend; to ensure that sand bags, for instance, are brought forward. I know that some of the correspondence I've received from Janet Finch-Saunders's constituents has raised that issue. So, that's an ongoing discussion with officials. 

Thank you, Minister.