6. Statement by the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales: Metro Projects in Wales

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:10 pm on 25 February 2020.

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Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru 5:10, 25 February 2020

I'm also very glad to see that the Welsh Government has come around to our side of the argument with regard to Wales getting its fair share out of the HS2 spend. The Minister may or may not remember a Welsh Government spokesperson saying some years ago—and I quote—when we were talking about the Barnett consequential: 'This is embarrassing guff from Plaid Cymru. They've got it totally wrong on HS2. Rather than admit their mistake, Plaid are digging a deeper and deeper hole.' I wasn't there, so I'm not quite sure what hole that was. We were then accused of a lack of humility. I'm sure that the Minister will now want to dissociate himself from that previous statement and to be absolutely ready to say that we were right all along.

If I can turn to some specifics, with regard to the north Wales metro, it's good to see some progress on this. But, in that context, it's quite concerning, and perhaps counter-intuitive, that of the additional £2 billion investment in transport that the Welsh Government intends to make in its budget, which is very welcome, only £20 million of that has been allocated to the north. Would he accept that, as things stand, the north-east plan relies very heavily on improving current services rather than looking at the transformation of services, and does he think that that's good enough?

Unsurprisingly, I disagree with Russell George with regard to the extent of the investment in linking the north of Wales into the north of England. That, of course, is important to do, but there is also a need for us to build stronger links between the north and south of Wales and, indeed, between the north-east of Wales and the north-west of Wales. I think that we need to have a balance, and it would be interesting to hear from the Minister what his understanding is, when he talks about the investment for that link to Liverpool, how much of that investment he expects to be spent in Wales and how much he expects to be spent in England.

Again, I'm very pleased to welcome what he's had to say about the Swansea metro, but I hope that the Minister will agree with me that it's very important that the Swansea metro—well, Swansea and south-west Wales, indeed—doesn't just link east to west along the rail equivalent of the M4 corridor, but also has the north-south links that will enable Valleys communities, further to the question that my colleague Dai Lloyd asked earlier, to make reliable use of those rail, light rail and bus services. Obviously, that's very important for people to be able to get access to good-quality job opportunities.

With regard to the forthcoming bus legislation that the Minister mentions, he will recall that we raised some concerns in the committee about the focus in the legislation on empowering local government, which of course I'm sure we would all very much welcome, but we are concerned, as I'm sure the Minister will remember, about whether or not this legislation provides the right vehicle for national and regional co-ordination. I understand and accept what the Minister said to the committee about regional co-ordination, but I'm still at a loss to see where this legislation will support the national co-ordination that we need if the metro developments are truly to work.

In terms of leadership and strategic direction, in response to Russell George, the Minister did clarify a little bit more about the role of Transport for Wales, but I'm still not clear about where the accountability and leadership is going to sit for this. Obviously, in terms of our scrutiny as Members of this Senedd, we will be scrutinising the Minister, but we also need to know who the Minister is asking questions of in terms of this broader strategic direction. I would be grateful if the Minister could tell us a little bit more about that, and how that accountability is going to balance with the very much more local and regionalised focus on bus services.

I want to briefly abuse my privilege and make a regional point. The Minister mentions in his statement hub locations, Wrexham general hospital—all very welcome. I wonder if the Minister will commit today to allowing his officials to discuss with the Hywel Dda health board the potential for public transport around the proposed new hospital site. Obviously, that proposed new hospital is a very long way off, and I know that the business case hasn't been completed. But, in discussions that we've had on this side of the house with Hywel Dda, they are very keen that, from the beginning, that hub should be a hub that can be supported by really effective public transport, because otherwise that will just increase the pressure on the roads in that area. And I wonder if the Minister will be prepared to commit today to his officials working at this very early stage with Hywel Dda to enable that to be a hub, potentially, as part of the south-west metro.

Finally, the Minister mentions the infrastructure, the Barnett consequential that we expect of £3.7 billion. Are we to take from his statement today that he expects all of that to be spent on transport, or is that a matter for further discussion? Because at the moment, if one reads his statement, that is what one would think.

Just a final comment more than a question: the Minister talks about transforming urban and inter-city connectivity in Wales. We of course have many communities in Wales that have almost no public transport at all, and I'd urge the Minister that, in his focus on the need, and we're not disagreeing with the need for this urban and Valleys and inter-city connectivity, we don't lose sight of those communities—and I'm thinking particularly of some in Gwynedd, some in Pembrokeshire—that have no access to public transport. I'm seeking some reassurance from the Minister that this isn't an either/or.