8. Statement by the Counsel General and Brexit Minister: Legislation related to leaving the EU

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 6:03 pm on 25 February 2020.

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Photo of David Lloyd David Lloyd Plaid Cymru 6:03, 25 February 2020

(Translated)

May I thank the Counsel General and Brexit Minister for his statement on legislation related to leaving the EU? May I thank him specifically for his detailed analysis of the complex and difficult legislative position that we find ourselves in in exiting the European Union? Now, you mentioned common frameworks, and common frameworks, as you've mentioned on a number of occasions in this Chamber, do mean shared governance, and, of course, require respect between different Governments. It shouldn't be a matter of the Westminster Parliament deciding and every other Parliament on these isles following slavishly in their wake, although, having said that, the outlook isn't particularly promising, as you've set out in this statement of the recent history.

This Parliament refused to give its legislative consent to the EU withdrawal agreement Act, just as did the Scottish Parliament and Northern Ireland, but yet the Westminster Parliament proceeded with the withdrawal Act, entirely ignoring all other Parliaments on these isles. Now, that doesn't sound like shared governance to me, and it doesn't sound like the views of other Parliaments on these isles are being respected either, but I do see from your statement that you have already moved on.

You have agreed with members of the Westminster Government that that was an exceptional or a unique position in terms of ignoring the views of the devolved Parliaments. But on what basis have you come to that position? Why would we believe that this couldn't happen again in future, or in all future occasions where we see powers being lost or powers being threatened, or that we will be ignored again, as you have admitted you have been ignored over the past three years, at some point in the future when we again complain, that the definition of a singular, specific and exceptional case will not be used again? What assurance can we have that this will not happen time and time again and every time that this Parliament is ignored that it will be a singular, specific, exceptional case? What assurance have you received on that point?

Now, of course, there's a great deal of legislation that will need to be passed, as you've mentioned, much of it in devolved areas, such as fisheries, agriculture, environment—all devolved to this place for 20 years. So, what influence do you have, or will you have, on the legislative process from this point onwards in these devolved fields? In leaving the European Union, we don't want to lose any powers that we have traditionally held in this Chamber and have done so over 20 years. Yes, of course, originally under the auspices of the European Union, and now under the auspices of the UK, but we don't want to see any powers lost from this place in those areas that have been devolved for 20 years.

And, finally, you also discuss secondary legislation that emerges from these processes, and you've already said that it's difficult to predict exactly how much of that will be required, but how can you ensure that there is improved scrutiny from this Senedd in terms of your work within Government as secondary legislation is passed—statutory instrument consent motions and so on and so forth? Because we've had some difficulty as a legislature in scrutinising what is happening with a broad range of SICMs and so on. So, will the system still be reliant on ordinary backbench Members in this place to push for debates on SICMs, on these secondary legislative consent motions, or will the Welsh Government be more willing and more proactive from here on in than they have been to date in facilitating debates on issues of secondary legislation without using that age-old excuse that time is short or that the burden of work is too great? Thank you very much.