1. Will the Minister make a statement on perinatal mental health services for women in Arfon? OAQ55228

We have reaffirmed our commitment to improve access and quality of perinatal mental health services both in the community and for in-patient care in the 'Together for Mental Health—Delivery Plan: 2019-22', which was published in January.

At a recent meeting of the Children, Young People and Education Committee, a psychiatric consultant and medical director for mental health at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board said that it appears that, 'we probably need about four beds of a mother and baby unit' in north Wales.

He went on to say that the board was willing to pilot a new model of care.

Now, what becomes clear, whatever the figure, and whether you need a unit or not, is that we do need urgent action to develop unique provision for mothers and babies in north Wales. Things have started in south Wales, at last, with a pro tem unit, but there is nothing that seems to be happening in terms of mothers in north Wales, who continue to have to travel a long way from home or are treated on psychiatric wards without their babies, or decide not to seek the necessary assistance at all. Will you, therefore, give directions to the relevant bodies to look into the options for north Wales with the aim of creating unique provision so that mothers in large parts of the country aren't left behind?

Well, I thank Siân Gwenllian very much for that very important question, and, as she says, we are making progress now with south Wales, but we certainly now need to move along with the situation in north Wales.

We have been having discussions with providers in England to discuss options for a joint provision, but those proposals are now on hold, because the English service is actually looking at developing its own provision. It is going to resume talks later on this year, but we're not sure when that will actually come. But, I know that Betsi Cadwaladr has said that it is interested in developing its own unique type of service. It has also mentioned a service for women who don't actually want to go into any beds at all. So, I think that's certainly something that we could look at, because it's very important that we do recognise that, at such a crucial time, women should feel able to have treatment and should be able to get it near home. So, we certainly will follow up those points.

Well, reference was made to the Children, Young People and Education Committee and, of course, their 2017 report 'Perinatal mental health in Wales' noted that

'north Wales alone does not have the necessary birth rates to sustain a specialist MBU, we call on the Welsh Government to engage proactively with providers in England to discuss options for the creation of an MBU in north east Wales that could serve the populations of both sides of the border.'

The Minister accepted their recommendation that the Welsh Government engaged, as a matter of urgency, with NHS England to discuss options for the creation of a centre in north-east Wales that could serve the populations on both sides of the border, saying 'I have asked the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee to work with Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board to consider options in north Wales, including this recommendation.'

Well, by my reckoning, that was 28-29 months ago, when the recommendation was urgent and the Minister said that he had asked then for that work to go forward.

The Betsi Cadwaladr website's only reference to perinatal mental health talks about their mental health service as close to their homes as practicable for mother and baby, but it doesn't refer to that key mental health provision. Only last month—and I'll conclude here—BBC Wales reported that mothers in Wales are suffering due to the lack of a specialist in-patient mental health support unit two years after Welsh Government promised to develop one. Why are we still waiting to hear, and if, as you indicate—I'm sure you do indicate—that, currently, discussions with England are on hold, why can't the developing model in England continue to develop on a cross-border basis, as proposed, rather than on a singular basis, recognising a border that could negate the recommendations in this committee report?

I thank Mark Isherwood for those questions. As I said in response to Siân Gwenllian, the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee has engaged with providers in England to discuss options for the creation of a mother and baby unit in north-east Wales that could serve the population of both sides of the border. And I think, as you've acknowledged, those discussions have now stopped, because the English services, they've got this provider collaborative initiative, which is provision of local services in England, and they want to see how that turns out before they go into any further discussions with us. So, that is the situation at the moment, but certainly, we do intend for those discussions to resume this year, and certainly, we are going to look at anything that Betsi Cadwaladr itself proposes.