Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:12 pm on 11 March 2020.
Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. This proposal is intended as a constructive contribution to the debate as to what will happen to equality policy here in Wales after Brexit. On these benches, we believe that equality law should be devolved in all its aspects, but we're realistic enough to understand that, given the current complexion of the Government at the other end of the M4, we're unlikely to get that devolution, as I'm sure many of us would wish, in the short term. We fully support full and unequivocal devolution, but if that isn't going to happen, we need to think about what we can do here in Wales within the powers that are currently devolved.
I think many of us do believe that we are likely to see big changes in the equality environment at a UK or GB level. There are elements of the current Government in Westminster who are very anti-regulation and by inference, that makes some of them, I believe, anti-equality. I must be clear, Dirprwy Lywydd, that I'm not implying that of the Conservative benches here; we have great champions of equality on the Conservative benches, and I see Suzy Davies and Mark Isherwood here, and there are many others. But there is that tendency at a UK level. That was used, was it not, used as one of the justifications for Brexit—that so-called burdens could be lifted from business in the UK? I'm sure that the Deputy Minister will agree with me that that is not something that we would wish to see, but if it is going to happen, much of the structure of the activity that we take here in Wales around promoting equality is based in the GB equality legislation as it stands now, and if that is lost, we will need to take steps here. We've talked about a number of alternatives—the enshrining in Welsh law of the UN conventions, for example.
I'm sure I don't need to set out, Dirprwy Lywydd, that we have a problem in equalities and employment in Wales. We know that women are traditionally found to be working in low-paid work, insecure work, part-time work, and I want to pay tribute to the organisation, Chwarae Teg, which I know, is an organisation that is very close to the Deputy Minister's heart, for the work that they've done in showing us what that costs the economy—not only what it costs the individual women, but what it costs the economy. We know, for example, that the access of black and minority ethnic people to high-quality and managerial jobs here in Wales is very poor and that that section of the population is more likely than anyone else to be overqualified for the jobs that they are doing. We know that 46 per cent of disabled people in Wales are in employment as against 78 per cent of the population as a whole, and I'm sure none of us believes that this is a satisfactory state of affairs.
When Welsh Government is granting contracts or granting grants, we have strong current guidance. The guidance in itself I would acknowledge is good. I do have some questions about how effectively it's used and whether, when commitments are made by a business, that is actually then checked and the commitments on paper are actually checked out to see whether they're actually being delivered. But all of that guidance, or the vast majority of that guidance, though there are elements, for example, that come from the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, falls out of the Equality Act 2010. If the Equality Act is amended and watered down, that guidance will need to be looked at again.
I believe it would be right to put those requirements onto a legislative footing so that there can be no doubt about what is required. So, this proposed legislation could provide for: equality audits pre-contract; specific binding equality commitments tailored to whichever business it was as part of the contracting process; crucially, equality monitoring during the period of that grant or of that business arrangement; and penalties if those equality commitments are not met without good reason. Sometimes, of course, there will be good reasons why they're not met, but if they're not met without reason, then there should be a penalty. Of course, these requirements would need to be reasonable and proportionate, depending on the scale of investment and the size of the organisation, but they should apply to all, in my view.
Now, this proposal builds, of course, on the work of the Fair Work Commission, which does, of course, call for the Welsh Government to legislate in some of these areas. I should say, Dirprwy Lywydd, that I don't think I've worded the motion perfectly because, in my view, this legislative approach should extend to all Welsh Government grants, loans and procurement contracts, and the legislation could be extended to include the whole public sector, including the health sector, local government, and so on. The same approach could also be extended to the third sector organisations contracting with or receiving grants from the public sector in Wales.
I wouldn't want to give the impression, Dirprwy Lywydd, that we want to put disproportionate burdens, but I'm sure that while we can all be pleased that fewer of our fellow citizens now are out of work, we should all be concerned that so much of the quality of that work is poor. It's low-paid, it's zero-hour contracts, it's insecure. I know that the Welsh Government will agree with us on these benches that that isn't good enough, neither are the limitations on the access of those who get opportunities to better opportunities. We were discussing on the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee just last week the great imbalance between males and females in taking up degree apprenticeships, for example, and how that might be tackled. I hope, Dirprwy Lywydd, that we can all agree that the Welsh public pound should not be spent in ways that perpetuate injustice or inequality, and I would ask Members to support this proposal today to allow for further exploration. I look forward to Members' contributions to the debate and to responding.