Item 8 this afternoon is a debate on a Member's legislative proposal: equal opportunities audit. I call on Helen Mary Jones to move the motion—Helen.

Motion NDM7247 Helen Mary Jones

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes a proposal for a Bill to provide an equal opportunities audit for firms in receipt of Welsh Government grants.

2. Notes that the purpose of this Bill would be to:

a) improve and encourage equal opportunities in the private sector in Wales; and

b) build on the findings of Fair Work Wales: Report of the Fair Work Commission.

Motion moved.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. This proposal is intended as a constructive contribution to the debate as to what will happen to equality policy here in Wales after Brexit. On these benches, we believe that equality law should be devolved in all its aspects, but we're realistic enough to understand that, given the current complexion of the Government at the other end of the M4, we're unlikely to get that devolution, as I'm sure many of us would wish, in the short term. We fully support full and unequivocal devolution, but if that isn't going to happen, we need to think about what we can do here in Wales within the powers that are currently devolved. 

I think many of us do believe that we are likely to see big changes in the equality environment at a UK or GB level. There are elements of the current Government in Westminster who are very anti-regulation and by inference, that makes some of them, I believe, anti-equality. I must be clear, Dirprwy Lywydd, that I'm not implying that of the Conservative benches here; we have great champions of equality on the Conservative benches, and I see Suzy Davies and Mark Isherwood here, and there are many others. But there is that tendency at a UK level. That was used, was it not, used as one of the justifications for Brexit—that so-called burdens could be lifted from business in the UK? I'm sure that the Deputy Minister will agree with me that that is not something that we would wish to see, but if it is going to happen, much of the structure of the activity that we take here in Wales around promoting equality is based in the GB equality legislation as it stands now, and if that is lost, we will need to take steps here. We've talked about a number of alternatives—the enshrining in Welsh law of the UN conventions, for example. 

I'm sure I don't need to set out, Dirprwy Lywydd, that we have a problem in equalities and employment in Wales. We know that women are traditionally found to be working in low-paid work, insecure work, part-time work, and I want to pay tribute to the organisation, Chwarae Teg, which I know, is an organisation that is very close to the Deputy Minister's heart, for the work that they've done in showing us what that costs the economy—not only what it costs the individual women, but what it costs the economy. We know, for example, that the access of black and minority ethnic people to high-quality and managerial jobs here in Wales is very poor and that that section of the population is more likely than anyone else to be overqualified for the jobs that they are doing. We know that 46 per cent of disabled people in Wales are in employment as against 78 per cent of the population as a whole, and I'm sure none of us believes that this is a satisfactory state of affairs. 

When Welsh Government is granting contracts or granting grants, we have strong current guidance. The guidance in itself I would acknowledge is good. I do have some questions about how effectively it's used and whether, when commitments are made by a business, that is actually then checked and the commitments on paper are actually checked out to see whether they're actually being delivered. But all of that guidance, or the vast majority of that guidance, though there are elements, for example, that come from the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, falls out of the Equality Act 2010. If the Equality Act is amended and watered down, that guidance will need to be looked at again. 

I believe it would be right to put those requirements onto a legislative footing so that there can be no doubt about what is required. So, this proposed legislation could provide for: equality audits pre-contract; specific binding equality commitments tailored to whichever business it was as part of the contracting process; crucially, equality monitoring during the period of that grant or of that business arrangement; and penalties if those equality commitments are not met without good reason. Sometimes, of course, there will be good reasons why they're not met, but if they're not met without reason, then there should be a penalty. Of course, these requirements would need to be reasonable and proportionate, depending on the scale of investment and the size of the organisation, but they should apply to all, in my view. 

Now, this proposal builds, of course, on the work of the Fair Work Commission, which does, of course, call for the Welsh Government to legislate in some of these areas. I should say, Dirprwy Lywydd, that I don't think I've worded the motion perfectly because, in my view, this legislative approach should extend to all Welsh Government grants, loans and procurement contracts, and the legislation could be extended to include the whole public sector, including the health sector, local government, and so on. The same approach could also be extended to the third sector organisations contracting with or receiving grants from the public sector in Wales. 

I wouldn't want to give the impression, Dirprwy Lywydd, that we want to put disproportionate burdens, but I'm sure that while we can all be pleased that fewer of our fellow citizens now are out of work, we should all be concerned that so much of the quality of that work is poor. It's low-paid, it's zero-hour contracts, it's insecure. I know that the Welsh Government will agree with us on these benches that that isn't good enough, neither are the limitations on the access of those who get opportunities to better opportunities. We were discussing on the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee just last week the great imbalance between males and females in taking up degree apprenticeships, for example, and how that might be tackled. I hope, Dirprwy Lywydd, that we can all agree that the Welsh public pound should not be spent in ways that perpetuate injustice or inequality, and I would ask Members to support this proposal today to allow for further exploration. I look forward to Members' contributions to the debate and to responding. 

Thank you. I don't have any speakers for the debate, so I'm going to go straight to the Deputy Minister and Chief Whip, Jane Hutt.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I do thank Helen Mary Jones for tabling this motion and also say that I welcome this debate on how we can improve and encourage equal opportunities, particularly addressing the private sector as well as the public sectors, which we so often focus on, because this is clearly linked to our wider approach to tackling inequality. We know that better, fairer opportunities for everyone, right across the Welsh economy—. You referred, of course, to the Fair Work Commission, and we are acting on the recommendations. Delivering fair work is a cornerstone of our policy programme. We know, of course, that a fairer society where diversity is valued and respected and where people can participate, flourish and fulfil their potential, is the society and economy that we want. 

So, equality and inclusion are integrated and mainstreamed through all six characteristics of fair work, but different approaches—and you've acknowledged this, Helen Mary—would have to be taken into account considering sector context and, for example, size of employers and how they could engage. But I do absolutely understand Helen Mary Jones's call to look at and to consider legislation regarding how we ensure that firms in receipt of Welsh Government grants could then move forward by, helpfully for them and constructively for them, providing an equal opportunities audit.

We will, and we will always, consider legislation where we have the powers to do so, but I think it's right that you focused as well on the fact that we do have other levers. We have procurement levers and non-legislative grants, which can, actually, drive change. We try to drive that change through working in partnership with business, but also with trade unions and with public bodies, to ensure that Government policy is working so that everyone benefits. 

We know that simpler, stronger social partnership arrangements do actually deliver that ambition for better, consistent outcomes, and they do ensure that Welsh workers across all sectors in the economy share in economic growth, but most importantly in fairness in the workplace.

Actually, trade unions, of course, through collective bargaining, have been critical to advancing many workplace equalities. There are employers who also recognise these benefits of a diverse and engaged workforce that is fairly rewarded. So, part of our implementation work of 'Fair Work Wales' involves scoping how, for example, we might be able to include conditions on fair work and equality in funding agreements. 

We already have the scope to attach a range of additional conditions to grants and other forms of financial assistance. We have to strike balances, of course, in terms of what this would mean. It's about developing an approach where employers embrace that change to deliver fair work and greater equality outcomes. That's where we have to, as the Government, manage this process.

So, we've accepted the six priority recommendations in 'Fair Work Wales', we've accepted others in principle and we've begun our journey to becoming a fair work nation. But, I also want to just mention today that this is alongside the commencement of the socioeconomic duty that underscores our commitment to a fairer society, with diversity valued and respected.

This morning, I issued a written statement to Members. I'm glad to have the opportunity to say to Members to look at the statement, because it regards the socioeconomic duty commencement date. We have to ensure that all our public bodies are fully prepared for this, and they are going to be engaged with partners in developing the guidance. We've had good consultation. The duty will now be enacted on 29 September of this year.

Just finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, I think it's important that we're looking across the equality strands. So, last September, I published 'Action on Disability: The Right to Independent Living—Framework and Action Plan', and that requires action across every Government department, including economic development. Yesterday, I published the 'Advancing Gender Equality in Wales Plan', which came out of the Chwarae Teg gender review. It's setting out priority areas for the coming years, focusing on equality of outcome.

I think key to all of this, particularly in terms of the levers we have, is the economic contract, because that's a real tool for change. In fact, the economic contract has to ensure that businesses are making change and demonstrating responsible business behaviours. We have a great deal of soft power, but it is about how we move forward, when we need to legislate and how we can take account of evidence.

So, finally, I'd just say that, particularly in the context of leaving the European Union, the important work that we're carrying out in terms of research on wider options to strengthen and advance equality and human rights in Wales, I think, will help us get the evidence to see whether we need to move forward in terms of legislation in Wales. I'm very grateful for this legislative proposal, and I look forward to working with you and other Members in full on taking this forward. 

Thank you. I call on Helen Mary to reply.

I'm very grateful to you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I feel that the Senedd may be rather tired of me by the end of today, because this isn't my last planned contribution—I thank Dr Dai Lloyd for his kind words. I'm very grateful to the Minister for the tone of her response. I fully endorse a great deal of what she said. She is right, of course, to say that there are some employers who are embracing this agenda very effectively, but I'm sure that she'd agree with me that there are others who are not and that, sometimes, we will inevitably, in Government, need carrots as well as sticks.

I very much welcome her statement today around enacting the socioeconomic duty. I think some of us may be a little bit disappointed about the decision to push it back, but I do understand the context of that, and that it is better to do it a little later and do it well than to rush and do it badly.

I think there are many levers, as the Minister has said—the procurement levers and so on—to promote this agenda in the private sector. But the truth is that many of those levers rest on legislation that I do not believe, and I don't think she believes either, are secure. The very existence of the definition of the six protected characteristics sits in the current Equality Act. If that is watered down, if that is amended in ways that we find unhelpful, I submit that we will need legislative responses, as well as all the other things around partnership and the very important role of the trade union movement and so on that the Minister has mentioned today.

Finally, I'm very grateful again, as I've said, for the very positive response, and I commend this proposal to the Senedd.

Thank you. The proposal is to note the proposal. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, it's agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.