We now move on to the final item, the statement by the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales on the economic response to COVID-19, and I call on the Minister to make his statement—Ken Skates.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. I'd like to start by thanking colleagues right across the Chamber for their support, their ideas and their advice over the last few weeks. It's been one of the most challenging periods any of us can remember and, in dealing with the economic fall-out of COVID-19, I've appreciated the many conversations that I've had with Members of all parties about how we can best support the Welsh economy and our public services through this incredibly difficult time. 

That spirit of bipartisanship is something that has hallmarked our approach throughout this crisis. The Welsh Government has worked constructively with partners in the UK, Scottish and Northern Irish Governments to help all economies of the UK through the COVID-19 challenges that we face. Though there is a huge amount still to do, I hope that Members can begin to see a basic framework of support emerging that can help businesses, organisations and public services in Wales chart a way through the challenges that they face. 

UK Government's coronavirus job retention scheme helps underpin support for businesses by relieving significant fixed-cost pressures, and the self-employed income support scheme enables many sole traders and freelancers to get through the crisis with the financial support that they desperately need. Only the UK Government, with its resources, could have played this role, and I welcome what they have done. Now, with those schemes having been announced, it's allowed us, as a Welsh Government, to target the more limited funding that we have into supporting those businesses in Wales that fall through the gaps.

The first element of our support was announced with a full package back in early March, on 18 March. That announcement included more than £350 million to help businesses with their non-domestic rates bills, and I'm pleased to tell Members that the new rate relief will be in place from today. It also included automatic small business grants of £10,000 for businesses across all sectors occupying properties with a rateable value of £12,000 and less, and £25,000 for retail, hospitality and leisure businesses occupying premises with a rateable value between £12,001 and £51,000. I'm incredibly grateful to local authorities who'll be dispersing these grants on our behalf. We're hoping that businesses with start receiving these grants this week.

On Monday, we subsequently announced our new £500 million economic resilience fund, which aims to plug the gaps in the support schemes announced by the UK Government. This Wales-only fund will support firms of all sizes, including social enterprises, with a focus on those that have not already benefited from the coronavirus grants already announced by Welsh Government. Now, the fund is made up of two main elements. Firstly, a new £100 million Development Bank of Wales business loan scheme. And then, secondly, a £400 million emergency grant pot. In total, we've committed more than £1.7 billion into mitigating the impact of COVID-19 on our economy.

Now, the Development Bank of Wales has already received over 500 applications for loans. I'll be meeting with the high street banks again tomorrow, and I’ll be raising with them the need to be more flexible and more considerate in responding to clients, particularly for those self-employed or who need bridging support between now and June.

At this point I'd like to pay tribute to the staff at both the Development Bank of Wales and at Business Wales, and also my officials who've been working day and night to develop the schemes. The Business Wales helpline has now dealt with almost 4,000 queries since 9 March. I'd also like to salute the many Welsh companies and universities who are now directly engaged in addressing specific challenges. This includes considerable activity in the production of ventilators, face shields, PPE, beds, mattresses and sheeting. We're not merely relying on current supply routes, but building alternatives where the demand cannot be met.

I'd briefly like to touch on our response on rail, bus and air services. The ambition of Welsh Government remains to create a sustainable integrated public transport network, including community transport right across Wales, and I've made a series of decisions to help to safeguard public transport across Wales. These were announced in my written statement just yesterday. I've agreed a package of support worth up to £40 million for Transport for Wales over the next few months to allow us to give certainty to rail passengers in Wales. As well as recommending that local authorities continue to pay a minimum of 75 per cent of the contract value for school and other contracted local passenger services, I've now injected £29 million of grants to help bus operators through the inevitable uncertainty of the next three months. And finally, after discussions with Eastern Airways, I've temporarily suspended the Cardiff to Anglesey public service obligation air service for an initial period of three months.

So, to close, my key message to businesses and to employees is very clear: if you had a good business in 2019, we want to support you to have a good business in 2021; and if you had a good job in 2019, we want to support you to have a good job in 2021. We must work together with compassion, with urgency, and with care to get through the significant challenges that we face and to come out the other side to the fairer, more equal and kinder economy that I think we all wish to see.

Can I thank the Minister for his statement this afternoon. I think those last words he used, of compassion, urgency and care, are well-founded. Minister, you've saluted those running our small businesses, and I think that in the same way that we salute those who've been working in the NHS and the care industry, I think that we should also be saluting those running our businesses at the moment and trying to carry on in very difficult times.

If I can just first of all pick up on an issue that was raised by the leader of the opposition in questions to the First Minister earlier, it's an issue really that's for the finance Minister, but it does touch on your brief as well, and that is this extra money. I think it's around £1 billion that was announced by the First Minister for jobs and supporting jobs. I understand that a good chunk of that money is coming from the EU, from EU funds that were originally designated for supporting existing jobs, but that's now going to be redirected to—. Sorry, that was originally supporting new jobs; that's going to be redirected now to support existing jobs. I'm just wondering about—. I think that's a good idea, by the way. I'm just wondering about, down the line, what this situation is going to be in terms of either paying that money back or arguing successfully for that being used in the right way, so that's probably a discussion that you'll have to have with the finance Minister. It does seem to me that, at this point in time, it is very wise to be redirecting funds as much as possible to support employment, so that when we come out of this, there are jobs there and SMEs capable of carrying out the job of rebuilding the economy.

You mentioned support, a framework for supporting businesses. Clearly, that is incredibly important. It's not just important that we have a framework for supporting businesses, it's also important that we have a framework that businesses are both aware of and they're able to access easily. I'm sure I'm not alone—with other Assembly Members, and I can see them, Minister, nodding—I'm not alone in thinking that. A number of businesses have contacted me and they've not been aware in the first instance where that support can be accessed. In this situation more than any other, it's a very fast-moving situation, so they need to know exactly where those avenues of support are as quickly as possible, so if you can tell us what you're doing to make sure that that framework is broadcast to businesses and they know exactly where those points of call are at the earliest opportunity, so that that can be accessed.

You've mentioned—well, supermarkets were mentioned to the health Minister, but I suppose it comes under your remit as well. I've had two e-mails from constituents today, asking about the situation when it comes to shielded individuals and the fact that there's not a similar register within Wales that there is on the UK level for registering with supermarkets to make sure that deliveries are available at home. People are concerned about that. I know the First Minister mentioned it earlier and the health Minister mentioned it, so I wonder whether you'd like to say something as well about any discussions you've had with supermarkets—they are a big chunk of our economy—about what can be done to make sure that those shielded individuals and shielded families are looked after as well as possible.

If I can just turn to the secondary part of your statement, the second part of which was relating to transport. I've got some questions for you on the bus industry. You've asked local authorities to continue to pay a minimum of 75 per cent of the contract value for school and other contracted local passenger services. Can you confirm that there's no legal obligation on local authorities to do so? And are you aware of any that aren't intending to follow your advice and guidance? I think what we need to avoid is ending up with a postcode lottery across Wales, and it is my understanding that at least some local authorities aren't playing ball in this regard and are saying that when times are difficult, if it's not a statutory obligation to provide that support in the first instance, then do they need to?

You're asking the bus industry, reasonably, to report weekly, showing how every bus has met its obligations with regard to limits on passengers, social distancing and the like. I completely understand that and think that's a good idea. However, again, I understand that some local authorities are asking for personal details upfront before funding is released. I don't think that's in the spirit of the written statement that you issued yesterday, so I wondered if you could give some clarification on exactly how you are intending that reporting process to happen.

Finally with buses, it looks as though the Department for Transport in England are going to provide extra support for the bus industry there—at least that's my understanding. Have you had any discussions or could you have any discussions with your counterparts in England, and indeed the finance Minister, to see if that money is forthcoming in England whether there are going to be any Barnett consequentials for Wales. That's an important aspect for us to understand here. Also, would you intend that to go to public transport within Wales?

Very finally, you mentioned at the end of your statement, Minister, that we are in unprecedented times, and you mentioned aviation and Cardiff Airport. So, if I can just put my Public Accounts Committee Chair hat on for a while, your written statement yesterday referred to the suspension of the Cardiff-Anglesey air link. What's your assessment of the impact on travellers and Cardiff Airport, given the suspension of the public service obligation for three months? I'm thinking particularly of travellers that we talk about needing to travel north-south for essential businesses. I wonder whether you've got any figures relating to those. I think this is something that we'll obviously be looking at in the longer term, and with the aviation industry in the situation it is, this might be lower down on your list of priorities at the moment. But, as I say, as this is something that we've looked at on public accounts, I'm interested to know what the situation is with Cardiff Airport and what assessment you've made.

Very, very finally, you mentioned the £40 million for the rail industry in Wales, and that is to be welcomed. Have you had any discussions with the rail franchise provider about where that money might go to support the industry in the short term? Social distancing clearly isn't compatible with public transport, so I think we all understand that there are difficulties at the moment with public transport. But I'm sure that we all agree with you that when we come out of this crisis, we want to make sure that our public transport sector, and, indeed, our wider economy, are on the best possible footing to deal with the challenges and to come out of this, so that the economy is on a much more solid footing than it does look as though it is on today because of all the understandable pressures upon it.

Minister. Minister, I'm not hearing you at the moment.

Llywydd, can you hear me now?

Yes, carry on.

Excellent. Can I thank Nick Ramsay for the very kind comments that he made at the outset and for his questions? Can I also just put on record my gratitude for the remarkable efforts by social care workers, NHS workers and other key workers, for the way that they've responded to COVID-19, and say, Llywydd, that it is good to see you yourself recovering so well from this virus? Fear and anxiety are very deep right now, and widespread, so to see somebody in such a position as you hold recovering from it really will provide some hope and optimism to people.

Nick Ramsay raises a number of important points in his contribution, first and foremost, the repurposing of Welsh Government money and EU funds. He is right, this is a matter for the finance Minister, but the challenge of COVID-19 is a problem that the Welsh European Funding Office recognises. It's greater than anything that we've encountered in recent decades, probably since world war two, and so there is flexibility being allowed in terms of how we bring forward that money to use it to sustain employment.

In terms of the framework that we've developed, I think we now have pretty much plugged every gap and provided a safety net for virtually all businesses and self-employed people. I said earlier that if you had a good business in 2019, we will be there to support you to have a good business in 2021. The criteria of a good business are clearly set out in the economic contract that we have: you have growth potential, you look after your workforce through applying fair work principles, by improving the health and the mental health of workers, you also ensure that you're contributing to the decarbonisation effort that we're going through. So, I think we have created now that framework to support all good businesses.

The Business Wales website is the first point of contact that I would urge businesses to go to; the Business Wales website has now been repurposed itself to provide comprehensive information regarding support for businesses throughout this period. It contains links to UK Government-sponsored support, to the Bank of England, the Development Bank of Wales, the British Business Bank and local authorities, ensuring that that is the one-stop shop for all business inquiries.

In terms of supermarkets, my colleague Lesley Griffiths discussed the issues that Nick Ramsay raised. I believe that they were discussed again just yesterday with all of the supermarkets. I'm sure that the Minister will be writing to Members shortly or providing a written statement regarding discussions that have taken place. But I would just like to say one thing: I've personally witnessed shop workers face abuse. It's totally unacceptable at the best of times, it's utterly, utterly reprehensible right now, and I would urge all customers of all shops to be patient and to show respect to shop workers. They are doing vital jobs right now and they deserve our thanks.

In terms of the question Nick Ramsay asked concerning bus support and the 75 per cent contract value, I've got to say this: I would not respond happily whatsoever if local authorities were choosing not to support vital bus services and bus companies right now. The bus services support grant and other funding streams are designed to support bus services and should be used to maintain—even if it's a skeleton service right now—bus services until we can bring forward solutions for the medium and longer term. And we are discussing the possibility of further support from the Department for Transport. Clearly, I would be keen to ensure that any additional support could be used for improving and enhancing public transport for the medium and longer term, and I understand that an announcement from the Department for Transport could come very soon indeed.

With regard to Cardiff international airport, the airfield will absolutely stay open. It must stay open to meet regulatory requirements, so that it can ramp up activity immediately once we're through this difficult period. In terms of the north-south service, I think I've issued a statement that pointed to the fact that more than 90 per cent of passengers were simply not showing up. The service was not being used. It made no sense to continue a service that was draining revenue that could be used elsewhere. But, of course, once we are past this difficult period we’ll be reinstating that service as soon as we possibly can. I've also been in discussions with numerous UK Government Ministers and with Ministers from other devolved administrations regarding support for not just airports but for our other ports as well. Most recently, I spoke with my counterpart in Northern Ireland yesterday about the situation that ferry businesses and ports are facing.

And, finally, in regard to the £40 million that will be made available to support the rail franchise, this revenue support will keep trains operating in the short run whilst we discuss longer term solutions for the franchise and the rail network. I should also say that we've been in regular contact with rail unions regarding the difficult working conditions that some of their members face. And, again, we have heard reports of union members who work, particularly in stations, enduring conditions that would not be appropriate at any time, where customers are invading their personal space and not showing respect. So, I'd again, Llywydd, just take this opportunity to urge all users of public transport to respect those people who are maintaining vital services right now.

I thank the Minister very much for his statement today, and also for his offer of a weekly conversation with the main party spokespeople, where we'll have a further opportunity on an ongoing basis to raise concerns with him. He said in his statement how much he values that non-partisan approach and I know that we wish to work with him to ensure, in this very difficult time, that lives and livelihoods are preserved.

I have a number of specific questions. To begin with, further to the Minister's response to Nick Ramsay with regard to information about business support, I'm sure that the Minister will acknowledge that it is quite a complex picture still for businesses to understand what might be the appropriate support for them.

I wonder, as the set of packages come together, the UK packages and the Welsh Government packages, whether the Minister would consider contacting businesses directly—just as the Government has made a Herculean effort to contact the 81,000 people we believe are vulnerable to ensure they protect themselves, whether he would consider a direct contact to businesses. Because I'm certainly getting a lot of contact from businesses myself saying, 'I'm not quite sure if we fit into this; I'm not quite sure if we fit into that.' So, I think it would be very helpful if the Minister would consider, once we know exactly what's going on— and it may take a few more days for that to be the case—writing to businesses direct, because there may be many who will perhaps be making assumptions about them not being eligible for support when, in fact, they may very well be.

Businesses are also saying to me that they would appreciate further guidance—and, in some cases, direction or instruction—as to what is or is not to be regarded as essential work. Adam Price raised with the First Minister the issue of non-essential construction, and I've raised this previously, that this is a very difficult area for people to maintain appropriate social distancing, for example. So, will the Minister give further consideration to looking at the powers that he has, now the emergency legislation is in place, to look at, where appropriate, issuing clear instructions to businesses about what is or is not essential? For example, it may enable non-essential construction to stop if they've got a direction to stop, whereas, if they choose to do so, that might put them in breach of contractual obligations and lead to financial difficulties for them. So, I wonder if the Minister will do that.

I wonder if he could also have further conversations with the Minister for health about the guidance that's available on the Public Health Wales website. I was contacted by a business saying that they were looking for advice and that they didn't feel that there was enough there to tell them how they should socially distance safely. Now, it's my understanding that there is much more detailed advice available on the Public Health England website, and it may just be that we're in the process of catching up with that. But, if we expect our businesses to act responsibly at this very difficult time, we need to ensure—I'm sure the Minister would agree with me—that they have the appropriate advice and support in place so that they know exactly what to do in what is, of course, as the Minister has said, an unprecedented time.

Now, we also know, Llywydd, that there are many businesses who are behaving in an absolutely exemplary way at this time, who are putting people before profit and who are providing, absolutely, an excellent service and supporting their staff. But, unfortunately, we also know that there are some businesses who are not doing that. I have numerous examples of businesses, for example, pressing staff to work when they should be socially isolating if, for example, they're not unwell themselves but a family member is unwell or vulnerable; businesses where people are being expected to work in circumstances where there is no proper social distancing, where they can't change in and out of uniforms effectively. Now, I should stress, Llywydd, that these are the minority of businesses, but what they are doing—I'm sure that the Minister would agree with me—is absolutely unacceptable.

As individual citizens, we've been asked to relinquish a lot of our personal freedom at this time, and we have done so gladly, in the greater cause. But where there are businesses who refuse to respond to advice and guidance, will the Minister consider looking at what powers he has to enforce compliance and will he consider using those powers? If he comes to the conclusion that he doesn't have those powers himself, will he have further discussions with the UK Government to make sure that there are sanctions for businesses who refuse to comply? I'm sure the Minister will agree with me that we, as a political community in Wales, and, more importantly, the public in Wales, are watching the performance of business and industry at the moment, and we will remember those exemplary companies who have behaved very well and we will also remember those who have not done so.

With regard to rural businesses, I'm sure the Minister will agree with me that they face particular challenges and difficulties. There are issues about what is and isn't essential travel, for example. Now, I'm aware that his colleague Lesley Griffiths has issued a statement of some kind—I don't know if it's a press statement or a written statement to the Assembly—about support for the farming industry, but I wonder if the Minister would give consideration with his colleague to potentially bringing forward at the right time a statement to this virtual Senedd so that we can scrutinise the support that the Government is making available both to rural businesses more broadly, but specifically to farming businesses? I know the Minister will agree with me that the businesses are the backbone of our smaller communities, and we need to make sure they're protected.

Finally, the Minister in his statement refers to the emergency grants that may be coming forward, and this is a matter that David Rees raised in his questions to the First Minister. We know that some of the support packages are not catching all of those who are affected. I think David Rees mentioned, and I would reiterate, those self employed people, for example, who haven't been self-employed for more than a year, so don't have the paperwork that's required for the UK Government scheme. Will the Minister consider what further support can be given to those citizens, and will he consider in the short term introducing an emergency basic income scheme for people in Wales who are falling between these cracks? In that spirit of non-partisanship, we have in Plaid Cymru done some research as to how such a scheme might operate in the short term, and I'd be very happy to share that preliminary work with the Minister and his officials, because I'm sure he would agree with me that in this very difficult time we want to ensure that no citizen is left behind.

Can I thank Helen Mary Jones for responding in such a constructive and collaborative way, as is always the case, actually, with Plaid Cymru's spokesperson on economy? The suggestions that Helen Mary Jones have made are very welcome indeed, and, if that piece of research could be passed on regarding the possibility of an emergency basic income scheme, I'd be really grateful. We've run some figures ourselves and found that it would be very considerable indeed and it would be something that would have to be implemented by the UK Government. Indeed, we've called for a universal basic income scheme to be introduced for this period. It would be, I think, an appropriate test of such a scheme as well, for the potential to have it introduced for the long term.

Indeed, for those individuals who have only been self-employed for a short time there is considerable concern, and all of the great minds in Treasury, Welsh Government, we have all considered how we might be able to support individuals who are caught in this particular bracket. We're looking at various options, including the possibility of using the discretionary assistance fund as a means of being able to support them through the next three months. We recognise that further work does need to take place, and we're engaged with UK Treasury, and indeed with the other devolved administrations, in trying to find a consistent approach for a key group of individuals within the labour force.

Helen Mary Jones made a number of important points about the provision of information and the accessibility of important information. We have already begun direct business communications with tens of thousands of businesses that are captured on the Business Wales database, and I'd encourage all businesses to register on that database. Larger companies—so-called anchor companies—are being contacted very regularly indeed by the business development managers within Welsh Government, and our regional response teams are also in contact with them very regularly indeed as well. I'd also urge any businesses that have any ideas—. We've talked earlier—Vaughan Gething in particular talked with Members earlier—about the national effort to produce ventilators and other important equipment. There is a dedicated e-mail address now for businesses to share ideas with us on how we can recover, how we can step up the national effort. That is business.covid-19@gov.wales.

And, in terms of clarification of what 'essential work' actually means in practice, this was discussed just today in our quadrilateral meeting with the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and other economy Ministers across the UK. We were all at pains to say we need as consistent an approach as possible, given that the vast amount of information that flows to businesses in Wales actually comes from the UK media. Therefore, if we can have a consistent approach across the UK it would be very helpful indeed. Both myself and Minister Hepburn from Scotland also pressed the point for this to be done at pace, with urgency.

I certainly take the point that Helen Mary Jones made about the advice that is contained on our digital platforms. There's the Public Health Wales advice, and there's also the Gov.Wales coronavirus advice for businesses as well. I'll step away from today and take a look at the advice that was captured on both platforms to see whether it's consistent, and whether we can add information to either or, indeed, both. 

In terms of bad business practices, there is no doubt whatsoever that the vast majority of Welsh businesses are showing great responsibility—supporting workers, communicating with workers, and many are stepping up to help the NHS and care homes as well—but there is no doubt that there are some businesses where good practice is not being shown, is not being demonstrated, and Helen Mary Jones is absolutely right that we will have long memories from this period. 

In terms of enforcement, we're looking at the questions that Helen Mary Jones has raised with both UK Government and with local authorities as well, but I can tell Members today that the criteria for support from Welsh Government—the grants that we've announced that we will be administering and that Business Wales will be administering—will contain an additional line to the economic contract. The economic contract is really simple, it's just got four points to it: decarbonisation; fair work; a commitment to skills, health and mental health in the workplace; and growth potential. We will include now a coronavirus-specific strand to the contract, and any business that is found to have failed to adhere to social distancing will be exempt from getting our support, or that support will be clawed back. So, we'll be using that important tool to ensure that as many businesses as possible are behaving responsibly. 

In terms of rural businesses and, in particular, the farming industry, I had a really good discussion with the president of the National Farmers Union, alongside Lesley Griffiths, just last week to talk about the pressure that the farming community is facing. I believe that a statement from Lesley Griffiths is intended possibly for next week's virtual Plenary session. So, I'm sure she'll cover all of the issues that you've raised when she gives that statement. 

Mike Hedges. 

I've just been unmuted. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Can I also join my thanks to those people working in the essential part of our economy? We often talk about the foundation part of our economy; we're now discovering what the essential part of our economy is. I hope that we will use that term much more often. 

I've had a number of issues raised with me by constituents that I'd like to raise with the Minister. The first one relates to small brewers. The large brewers can move from production of barrels to cans and bottles sent out to retail outlets. It is not possible for smaller producers to do exactly the same thing, who are used to sending to pubs, clubs and restaurants. They haven't got the capacity to turn everything into cans and bottles. This sector, as the Minister knows, is a growth sector of the Welsh economy, not least in Swansea. What advice or help can the Minister provide to them?

The second point is regarding small and medium-sized manufacturing units and call centres staying open where social isolation is not possible and where facilities are shared. Is there an intention to close down non-essential manufacturing and call centres? Because a number of them, because haven't been officially closed down, are staying open.

Two final points. What is a rugby club? Is it a pub, is it a leisure facility, or is it a social enterprise? According to the general laws that define it, it will be picked up differently. There are an awful lot of rugby clubs in Wales that wished to sell lots of beer at the last rugby international that didn't, and they're not quite sure where they fit into this situation.

Finally, something that has come to my attention this afternoon. Some shops are now telling people they can't take their children into the shops with them. Now, for single mothers, if they can't take their children in to do their food shopping, they can't do their food shopping. So, are you aware of that? As I say, it's only been brought to my attention this afternoon. If you are, are you doing something? If you're not, can you actually do something? Because these people are going to be unable to get access to food unless they can access the supermarkets and other shops that are now telling them, 'You can't come in with your children.' Well, if their children are four or five, there's nothing else you can do with them. 

Can I thank Mike Hedges for his questions? With regard to small brewers, I've been in contact with a number of small brewers who face a number of challenges. You're right, one of them is that they can't compete with the bigger breweries that can swiftly turn to bottling or canning their products. A second challenge that they face is that there are many, many independent pubs that have independent breweries attached, breweries within factory facilities, and so in some parts they were excluded from the business support that we announced at the initial stages of our effort to combat COVID-19, but they have subsequently been captured by Monday's announcement.

I think there is a question to be asked as to whether we can assist smaller brewers to supply to supermarkets over the coming months, and how quickly some form of consortium could be arranged. We'll certainly be looking at this. It's not been an urgent priority, as you can imagine, in the first few weeks of our efforts, but it is certainly something that we recognise. What we would wish to see happen as we emerge from the coronavirus crisis is for the brewery sector to be enhanced, not to be damaged. We would wish to see more microbreweries spring up. We would wish to see more independent pubs develop. We do not wish to see whatsoever the loss of good independent pubs or breweries, so we will certainly be supporting them in any way that we can.

The point that Mike Hedges made about non-essential manufacturing facilities and call centres really goes back to the definition and the points that were raised by Helen Mary Jones. But I would say just one thing: it's important for a business to ask two questions. First of all, are they part of the essential effort to combat COVID-19? If they're not, can they undertake work in a way in which allows for social distancing to be practiced at all times? If the answer is 'yes', then work may continue, but if the answer is 'no', then clearly their workers should not be put at risk. And if that means hibernating for the coronavirus period, then so be it. We have put in place the support mechanisms, and UK Government likewise, to enable hibernation to happen where there is no other option.

With regard to rugby clubs, I do not believe that rugby clubs should be open at this present time. Other sports facilities are not open at this time and, regardless of the definition of what a rugby club is, if it's a venue where people can gather in close proximity, I don't think that should be the case. I can see Mike Hedges shaking his head. If there was any misinterpretation of the question, then I'll certainly take it up in writing, absolutely. Yes, I will, and I'll circulate my response to all Members as well so that any guidance can be distributed across all rugby clubs in Wales.

I'm not aware of any supermarkets telling customers that they're not allowed to enter premises if they have children. That certainly would not be acceptable whatsoever. However, it goes without saying that, if children are taken into any stores, it's important that parents are able to keep their children as close to them as possible, because pretty much all supermarkets, from what I can tell now, have brought in social distancing measures that should and must be adhered to.

Before I call on the next speaker, can I just remind Members that this is a formal session of the National Assembly and taking phone calls during a formal session is not permitted? So, it's not to be repeated. Neil Hamilton.

The overriding objective of all restrictions on economic activity is of course the saving of lives, and we all agree with that objective, but does the Minister agree that we shouldn't throw out altogether questions of proportionality of response? Supermarkets are allowed to remain open because obviously distribution of food is an essential service, but there are other businesses of similar kinds that operate in the open air that are not open because of the Government's restrictions. I'm thinking in particular of the difficulties currently being faced by plant nurseries, garden centres, and so on, and I wonder whether one might keep an eye on this to lift the restrictions at as early a date as possible. Because, at this time of year, with the seedlings and so on that are regarded in effect as perishable goods, businesses stand to lose very substantial sums of money by not being able to trade. If social isolation is possible in these circumstances, then I see no reason why they shouldn't continue to trade. So, I wonder if the Minister would agree that—obviously, at this stage in the pandemic, maybe questions of proportionality do fall away—as we move through this crisis, these restrictions should be lifted as quickly as possible?

I would agree with Neil Hamilton that, as soon as we can lift restrictions, they should be lifted. What I would say is that we don’t want to close down the economy, we really do not want to do that; what we want to do is protect it for the longer term. The message that I was giving to the tourism sector when we saw a lot of people coming into Wales and coming from parts of Wales into the more remote parts Wales just two weeks ago was: 'If you're trying to salvage the tourism season in 2020, you're putting at risk the tourism season of 2021.' We cannot afford to see coronavirus return and, therefore, it's essential that, whilst we would wish to see restrictions lifted as soon as possible, we should only do it once it's safe to do so.

I would agree that garden centres are often places where social distancing can be adhered to. Of course, we'd be willing to consider whether they could be opened. But actually, a good number of garden centres are already innovating in this space and are selling more online. We would encourage them to do that first and foremost during this period. But I can assure garden centres that as soon as we can reopen them in a safe and practical way we will do so.

Thank you, Minister, and thank you to all Members and Ministers. I'm going to draw to a close now this quite extraordinary meeting of our Senedd and thank all Members and Ministers for taking part. Unusually, I'd also like to take the opportunity today to thank the officials that have worked behind the scenes to make this meeting possible in the most extraordinary of circumstances, and to do that in a very short space of time. Democratic accountability is important, and continues to be important even in these most trying of times. Therefore, I want to thank everybody who's taken part today in making sure that democracy is alive and well in Wales, and we will look to repeat this for as long as we need to do so. Thank you all, and keep safe. This draws our proceedings to an end.

The meeting ended at 16:42.