2. Statement by the First Minister: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

– in the Senedd at 1:33 pm on 22 April 2020.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:33, 22 April 2020

(Translated)

Thank you, First Minister. The first item of business, therefore, is a statement by the First Minister on coronavirus and I call on the First Minister to make the statement.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:34, 22 April 2020

(Translated)

I would like to update Members on the latest steps taken as the Government responds to the coronavirus crisis.

We have continued to announce financial support to support individuals and services in responding to this crisis. We are still working very closely with partners in local government, the health service and all other public services in order to ensure that all necessary support is in place. We are extremely grateful to the people of Wales for following the important advice to protect everyone’s health. We are also starting to plan for the future when we will come out of this current situation. We will be looking closely at the evidence before making any changes. We will draw in new ideas to help us with this important work.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:35, 22 April 2020

Llywydd, coronavirus is both a public health crisis and an economic crisis. The Ministers primarily responsible for these two portfolio areas will make statements this afternoon about the actions the Welsh Government is taking in response to the virus. There are very few areas of public life that have not been touched by coronavirus, and this afternoon, I will focus on the measures we are taking across other portfolios.

Llywydd, many aspects of housing have been affected, from concerns about people with no home to live in, to people travelling into Wales to their second homes. Since the Senedd last met, we have provided comprehensive advice about the support available for tenants in Wales, including information about benefits, help with rent, bill payments and debt. We’ve provided information to landlords and agents in the private rented sector and guidance to local authorities about how they can continue to enforce standards in rented properties to keep people safe.

We continue to receive weekly reports from chief constables across Wales on the enforcement of regulations. Let me be clear again: travelling to a second home is not an essential journey, and police in Wales are and will stop people attempting to do so.

In social care, we have provided an extra £40 million to support adult social care services to meet the increased costs that the sector is facing. This funding comes directly from our own budget and is part of the £1.1 billion fighting fund we have created to support public services to respond to coronavirus.

I know that many Members have raised concerns about people who have opted for direct payments and employ their own personal assistants, and since the Senedd last met, we have provided specific information for people in that position. Social Care Wales has launched a card for all social care workers to help identify them as critical care workers, and so to access the help and assistance available to them.

Llywydd, education and childcare have been hugely impacted by the virus. We have issued guidance to critical care workers and parents of vulnerable children about how they can get the help that they need in the current circumstances, and we are implementing the extended childcare offer for children of key workers announced by Julie Morgan on 6 April. For many young people, this is a time of distress and anxiety. The Minister for Education, Kirsty Williams, has announced £1.25 million of additional funding to provide extra mental health support for children, helping school counselling services to deal with an anticipated increase in demand. The Minister has also confirmed that A-level and AS-levels results day will be as originally scheduled on 13 August, and on 20 August for GCSEs—the same dates, therefore, as will obtain in both Northern Ireland and England. 

Yesterday, Llywydd, Wales became the first UK nation to confirm additional funding to guarantee free school meals for children during the pandemic. Thirty three million pounds will be made available as additional help to local authorities in this vital area.

Two weeks ago, the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs, Lesley Griffiths, answered questions in the Senedd. She has continued to meet with industry representatives from Wales’s farming, fishing, forestry, environment and food and drink sectors to discuss their specific challenges. A new grant is now available to support fishing businesses to cover the fixed costs associated with owning a fishing vessel, and the Welsh Government has launched a bespoke online service to match employers with people looking for work in the agriculture, land or veterinary sectors. That service will help to fill vacancies in the coming months, addressing labour shortages caused by the virus outbreak.

Llywydd, I’d like to end by turning to the future. Last Thursday, the four Governments of the United Kingdom agreed that the current stay-at-home restrictions must continue for at least a further three weeks. Now is not the moment to throw away all the efforts we have made, especially as there are signs of them beginning to bear fruit. But it is really important to stress that the threat from coronavirus is far from over. Sadly, lives will still be lost in the days to come, and I know that all Members will want to pause a moment to remember the 600 people and more who are no longer with us and the grief and distress that this continues to cause to those who are closest to them.

Now, any decision to ease restrictions will only be made when the medical and scientific evidence is clear that the time is right to do so. The process in Wales will be careful, cautious and gradual. There can be no sudden return to the way of life we enjoyed before the pandemic began. And Llywydd, when I made my first statement to the Senedd under our new arrangements, we still faced the realistic anxiety that coronavirus might accelerate its spread in Wales to a point when our NHS could have been overwhelmed. That this has not happened is a tribute to the enormous work that has gone on in such a rapid period to extend the capacity of the service and the efforts that Welsh citizens have made to reduce the circulation of the virus in the community. Today, the number of patients in Welsh hospitals because of coronavirus has stabled and the number of new admissions is falling. Over half our extended critical care capacity is still available. More than 3,000 acute hospital beds are in the same position, and both figures have improved again over the last few days. It is because of that platform that has been created that we can now use the weeks ahead to prepare; to agree a common set of objective measures to identify the point at which it is safe to begin lifting restrictions. These measures will tell us when the time is right to move beyond the current position.

There will be a risk that the virus will begin to circulate again. We need to set out strong public health surveillance measures so that if there are local outbreaks, we can identify them quickly and respond effectively. In Wales, we have retained a national public health service with a strong local presence and we must use this as the basis of our response. We must also learn from international experience. There are already countries in Europe and beyond where restrictions are being lifted. We will use the next few weeks to learn from what works and what might not work elsewhere in the world.

Llywydd, finally, we will also use that period to plan for Wales's future beyond coronavirus by drawing in expertise and experience from outside Government. We will establish a group of people from inside Wales and beyond to challenge our thinking, to contribute new ideas, and so to help us plan for recovery. We have put our framework for doing so in place and I look forward to discussing that plan and that path to the future with the Senedd in the weeks ahead.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:43, 22 April 2020

Before I call on the leader of the opposition, just to say that I'm aware that a Member wishes to raise a point of order. I'll take all points of order at the end of the statements, so no visual aids are required. Paul Davies.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative 1:44, 22 April 2020

Thank you, Llywydd. Can I thank the First Minister for his statement this afternoon? And can I echo your comments, First Minister, and convey my condolences to those families who have lost loved ones during this pandemic?

As the COVID-19 pandemic continues to be felt by families, communities and businesses across the country, it is vital that no stone is left unturned in identifying the threat and treating those who have been affected as soon as possible. The Welsh Government's announcement of a rapid review into Wales's testing system is a crucial step forward, not only to see where problems are arising in terms of administering the tests, but also in terms of making the process around it far more efficient. I appreciate that the health Minister will be making a statement on some of these issues later, but you are, of course, responsible for the overall Government strategy, therefore can you tell us what initial findings have been made from the Welsh Government's rapid review and what sort of timescales have been put in place to see any new changes to the system? We know that the target of 5,000 tests a day was not met by mid April, and it's very clear that nowhere near 9,000 tests will be taking place by the end of this month as originally promised. In fact, we know that on some days, far less than 1,000 tests a day have been carried out. So, to be blunt, First Minister, why are so few tests actually taking place and why has the Welsh Government failed to meet its targets, because it's important our key front-line workers are tested as quickly as possible in order to keep them safe? It's clear that there is capacity in the system that's just not being used to test key front-line workers, and community testing centres and drive-in centres across Wales are still not all fully operating. Therefore, can you tell us when you anticipate the opening of all testing centres for key workers so that we can at least get an idea of when testing will be taking place in all parts of Wales?

Now, at the start of this pandemic, I raised the importance of reaching those living and working in social care settings, and you made reference to this in your statement today, and it is regrettable that more hasn't been done earlier to tackle the impact of coronavirus in care homes across Wales. At the time, you said that there was a particular challenge in Wales, because the sector is dominated by small owners of one or two residential care homes, and so getting messages out to people is a bigger challenge when you have large numbers of people involved and people who may not necessarily be as attuned to dealing with demands as large companies, who are well set up and equipped to do this. Given that care home residents are at a heightened risk of serious complications from the virus and we are now seeing more reported cases in care homes, what specific action is the Welsh Government now taking to expedite support for those living and indeed working in the sector?

First Minister, the health Minister made clear yesterday that securing enough PPE is a bigger priority than the challenges on coronavirus testing. Now, you'll be aware that the Royal College of Nursing in Wales and indeed others are calling on the Welsh Government to commit to safeguarding supplies of PPE, as well as calling for the Government not to weaken the guidance to disguise shortages, and also to conduct a rapid audit across health boards to ensure that PPE is being distributed effectively to all care settings. It is unacceptable that 74 per cent of nursing staff have raised concerns about PPE and that over half of nursing staff have felt pressured to care for a patient without adequate protection. Therefore, could you confirm that the Welsh Government will now undertake a rapid audit of PPE across health boards in Wales, as well as confirm what action is being urgently taken to ensure that key workers in Wales all have access to the PPE that they need?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:47, 22 April 2020

Llywydd, I thank Paul Davies for those questions. Let me be clear that testing is taking place in all parts of Wales. Over 20,000 tests have been carried out in Wales during the coronavirus crisis. Forty per cent of those tests have been made available to front-line healthcare staff. There is more that needs to be done to simplify the process from which social care staff in particular can be identified and then offered testing at the different centres that we have, and that's one of the key conclusions of the rapid review that Paul Davies referred to. We need to simplify that process while still safeguarding essential safety aspects of the system. It is really important that the right person does turn up at the right time in the right place for the right test. It sounds easier than it is to get all of those things lined up when you have a very scattered population, all of whom have to be put through a certain level of assurance. But we did hear from the head of the Welsh Local Government Association today—some of us—that some of the immediate steps that have been taken are accelerating their ability to put forward social care staff for testing, and that more tests are being done as a result. The rapid review proposed that we should report weekly on the number of tests available, the number of tests being taken out, and the steps that are in place to increase that further week by week, and that's what we will be doing. There will be more tests available by the end of this week than there were at the end of last week, and I believe that we will have more people taking up those tests as we simplify the referral process.

Paul Davies, Llywydd, I thought set out very well some of the challenges that there are there in getting information and other aspects to the care home sector, given its nature here in Wales. But we are working closely with Care Forum Wales; I want to again just express my thanks to them for everything they are doing to strengthen their ability to get information to that front line. There is absolutely no suggestion anywhere that we are weakening the guidance. We were part of the rapid review of guidance that the UK Government led, which has resulted in an extended number of people in the care sector particularly becoming entitled to PPE, and we are observing and implementing that guidance here in Wales. As a result of all of that, we will have provided 48 million pieces of PPE from stores here in Wales—40 per cent of our pandemic store supplies going to social care. The struggle we have is to replenish those stocks in a globally competitive market. We know already where our stocks are and how much we have in reserve. We carry out regular exercises to make sure that we get the most up-to-date reports from across the system about stores that are being held, or different items in different parts of Wales. And as we draw down supplies that come into Wales from outside, we act as quickly as we can to make sure that those stores are dispersed to the different centres from which they are then onwardly transmitted to the 640 GP practices we have in Wales, the 715 pharmacies that we have in Wales, and the thousand or so care homes we have in Wales. Members will see that this is a huge logistical exercise and one that is taking an enormous amount of time, effort and commitment from dedicated people working in the health service and in local government right across Wales.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative 1:52, 22 April 2020

Thank you for those responses, First Minister. As you've said in your statement today, whilst the coronavirus pandemic is an enormous global health challenge, it's also a significant economic challenge too. The financial support that has been available to most sectors has been generous and I'm sure it's greatly received by those recipients, however there are sectors like farming and tourism that feel left behind because support is either unavailable, inaccessible, or it simply just doesn't cover the needs of those working in those sectors. So, given that the Welsh farming industry is integral to Wales's economy, culture and, indeed, identity, what urgent steps are the Welsh Government taking to address the very real crisis faced by Welsh farmers, particularly dairy farmers, at this time, in order to protect the sustainability of Welsh farming for the future? Perhaps you could send a clear statement today to Welsh farmers, First Minister, by reinforcing the message that they are also key workers, and allowing them to access funding under the economic resilience fund.

Last week, the Welsh Government restricted the eligibility of those who could claim £10,000 in grant funding within the tourism sector. Whilst I understand that some second-home owners were taking advantage of the Welsh Government's previous flexibility, the revised guidance now means that many genuine small self-catering tourist operators across Wales may no longer be able to access this funding. First Minister, will you reconsider the position taken on this specific issue, so that small-scale self-catering tourist operators are able to receive support during this period, given the important role that they play in supporting the Welsh tourist industry?

Now, I appreciate that the rate of business applications has been unprecedented, and whilst we all welcome any support packages that are made available in Wales, I think there's some more work needed to fine-tune some of the packages on offer. For example, the Welsh fishing industry has told me that the support for them—and you make reference to this in your statement today—doesn't quite cover their costs, and that the eligibility for further support needs to be made fairer. Road haulage businesses, which still have to pay business rates, have made it clear that more needs to be done to support the distribution industry, which, as you know, is critical at this time in ensuring vital goods are able to be transported.

And, finally, tourism businesses are telling me that they feel the seasonality of their business is not being taken into account when designing some of the support schemes in place, and so they're falling between the gaps in accessing support because their business model doesn't quite fit the Government's assessment criteria. Therefore, what fine-tuning is the Welsh Government doing to better understand the diverse range of businesses in Wales, to ensure that each of the Government's business support packages is reaching those who actually need it?

Finally, can you tell us what support is being made available to those businesses that either aren't value added tax registered because their turnover isn't that big, are sole traders, or are operating small limited companies, because it seems as though these kinds of microbusinesses have not been considered when designing business support packages?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:55, 22 April 2020

Llywydd, the leader of the opposition has mentioned dairy farming, fishing, tourism, sole traders—I think there was another one in there too. I think all he is doing is illustrating the astonishing economic challenge that there is as a result of coronavirus. Haulage, I'm sorry, was another that he mentioned. All of those sectors, I know, are facing real challenges, and we could've added to that list many times over, I'm sure.

The Welsh Government's resources are limited. We are squeezing everything we can out of our existing budgets. We are passing on every penny of additional help that comes our way through the UK Government, and we are doing our best to design the additional help that we can provide in a way that is complementary to the help that the UK Government's schemes are offering to businesses here in Wales.

I'm, of course, very happy to put on record our recognition of everything that is being done by the farming community here in Wales and to recognise the particular challenges that dairy farmers are facing. Lesley Griffiths welcomed, on Friday of last week, the temporary lifting of some competition laws in the dairy industry to allow for a more planned way in which the milk that is being produced in the dairy industry can be used for places where milk is needed. In the meantime, we've produced guidance for dairy farmers in Wales, helping them to make sure that if, as a last resort, they have to dispense with the milk that they have without it going into the food chain, they can do that in the safest way possible.

As for the changes we have made to self-catering accommodation, I'm perfectly happy to say that we'll keep it under review, because it was a review of the evidence that led to Julie James announcing the changes that we have made. What the changes mean is that a tourist business, even a small-scale one, has to demonstrate that it is letting property for 140 days in a year. I really don't think that if that is the income that you are depending upon, it is unreasonable for you to show that for 140 days of the year that property is being occupied for tourism purposes, and then you have to demonstrate that the income you get represents a reasonable proportion of your total income.

The anxiety was—and I know Paul Davies will know this, because it's been raised by local authorities in south-west and north-west Wales—that a lot of public money was at risk of going into the pockets of people for whom this is a small and supplementary part of their income, not the income that they rely on to make their business a success. So, I think we have done the right thing, but I'm very happy to say that we will keep the evidence under review. And if fine-tuning is required, then we will return to that, and that is true of a number of the other things that Paul Davies mentioned. The fishing industry, for example—we've announced a scheme to make sure we can assist our fishing industry in Wales. If it needs to be fine-tuned, we'll need the evidence and we will look at that.

I'm very alert to the points that the leader of the opposition made about tourism in Wales. I know we've rehearsed it here before that the pattern in the tourism industry is that people invest in the winter and recoup those costs and make their businesses successful in the summer, and, as the weeks go by, that is putting a very particular strain on that business model. We are working hard alongside the tourism industry to try to do what we can to help.

On microbusinesses and the other points that Paul Davies ended with, in many ways those are gaps in the UK Government's schemes, and they have the major responsibilities here. We continue to engage with UK Ministers, and the Chancellor has shown the willingness to introduce new schemes and new measures where gaps in the original provision have emerged. Sole traders, microbusinesses: they remain an area where we need the UK Government to step in and offer the support that is needed.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 2:01, 22 April 2020

I'd like to ask you about testing, First Minister. In England, two mega laboratories that have the capacity to conduct tens of thousands of tests per day are already operational, and a third one is going to be added in England soon. Scotland will have a mega lab by the end of this week. And, as set out in the UK Government's testing plan, Northern Ireland already has established a major laboratory at the headquarters of Randox Laboratories in County Antrim. So, we now are the only nation in these islands that has not seen a large-scale laboratory set up specifically in the context of the pandemic. Did you ask for a mega lab for Wales?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

Llywydd, we have the testing capacity we need in Wales. We have no problem in Wales in processing the tests that are being carried out. The capacity we have is adequate to deal with the tests we are currently conducting and we have plans to expand that capacity in the right way for Wales. We didn't need to go to anybody else to get advice on their solutions, when we have a solution that we are implementing in a way that meets our needs and is right for Welsh circumstances.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 2:02, 22 April 2020

First Minister, how can you say that we have the necessary capacity when you've missed your own targets on tests three times in three weeks and now you've scrapped them? Let's talk about the capacity for testing within Wales. It's almost six weeks since scientists at Cardiff University wrote to Welsh Government offering their expertise in conducting tests here in Wales. Almost six weeks later, those hundreds of scientists—and by the way I spoke to one of them this morning—and their laboratories haven't had the go ahead, haven't had the accreditation, to conduct a single test on a key worker here in Wales. Is it any wonder that Sir Martin Evans has accused you of a dereliction of duty?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:03, 22 April 2020

Well, I think the Member has to be careful not to mix up the different aspects of testing. He originally asked me about laboratories that were dealing with tests that had been carried out, and I repeat to him what I said: we don't have any current deficit in our ability to process the tests that are being carried out and we have plans to increase that capacity when we need it.

The rapid review of testing that Paul Davies referred to showed us how we can increase the number of tests available and increase the take-up of tests, and we're putting that review into practice. We will have more tests in Wales this week than last. We're increasing the take-up of them, particularly from social care but from other key workers as well. We have police officers and firefighters being tested now in Wales.

On Sir Martin Evans's comments, I was surprised to see them and I see that Cardiff University immediately put out a statement saying that his views did not represent the views of the university and that the university continued to work very closely with the Welsh Government on a range of pandemic-related matters.

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative 2:04, 22 April 2020

First Minister, may I thank you not just for your statement but for all the work that you and your team are doing? I trust that you are bearing up well in these quite extraordinary circumstances.

In trying to scrutinise what Welsh Government is doing, it is tempting to concentrate on the areas where the approach in Wales is somewhat different, perhaps, than that taken by the UK Government. But, overall, those differences are relatively small, and I think there's a far greater commonality in approach than there is any difference. There is, however, I think, between the UK and most countries in Europe, some difference in terms of how we approach that—that our lockdown, or at least compulsory lockdown, measures, came in rather later, and we are seeing, even in just looking at hospital deaths, deaths in the UK, and, indeed, Wales, on a per capita basis, as at or towards the top of the European league table, if that's not an inappropriate phrase to use, and the difficulties of the data and the comparisons are very real.

I just wonder—. We can see that very negative side of it, all the families who are affected by those losses, and we commiserate in every possible way with them. We see that happening. What is the Welsh Government's planning assumption about what that will mean as we gradually, at some point in the future, are able to loosen measures? Does the Welsh Government consider that there will be a greater degree of immunity from people who have had the virus, be that asymptomatic or be that with relatively limited symptoms? There are studies suggesting in Stockholm perhaps around 30 per cent of people having had infection. Do we have an assumption or any way of measuring or projecting what that will be for Wales and what the impact of that will be when we consider easing measures?

Could I also ask about the testing regime? We had, some time ago, community testing, and that was then shut down as we moved from one stage of the pandemic to another. We've had these targets of 5,000, or perhaps 9,000, at the end of the month for Wales, and 100,000 for the UK, or for England. I don't know if those are the right targets, but it doesn't look as if we're particularly in distance of hitting them, and I just wonder what can be done to make testing more widespread.

One health board that I'm in good contact with—and it may be a more general issue—at least at the end of last week, didn't want to give wider testing to partners and other organisations because of concerns that they didn't have cover around data protection and GDPR, and they were waiting for Public Health Wales to publish, or at least share with them, a protocol on what should be done. Surely the degree of emphasis that would go to those issues should be less when we have a pandemic of this scale and we have this urgency of having greater testing. And if an organisation is sharing data from someone who's had a test and is sharing a swab to be tested with another organisation, a health board that's got the testing capacity, why can't that be tested and the test result and the other data returned whence it came, given that the person has given permission for that test? I know, ideally, one would like to give a lot of feedback and ensure what pathways people would go down, depending on what that test result is, but surely it is better that—if people believe they have coronavirus, it is better that they are tested and find out for sure whether they do or do not have that. I just wonder: can Welsh Government do anything or show a lead in terms of any data protection issues, if there still is a concern that's slowing or making it hard to test people who are not directly employed by the health boards? Can you as First Minister give a lead in that area?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:09, 22 April 2020

Llywydd, can I thank Mark Reckless for his opening remarks? The relationship between Wales and the rest of the United Kingdom in the coronavirus crisis is one in which I believe that working alongside the other Governments is a strength, that, when we can do things together and send a single message out to the public, that makes that message simpler and therefore more readily heard and understood. But, where there are things that we need to do differently to meet Welsh circumstances, then of course we will do that as well. But I always go into the room with other UK Governments looking for common ground and trying to craft a way forward in which we can all sign up to it together.

I agree with what Mr Reckless said about following European evidence, about looking at experience elsewhere. Other European countries are coming out of coronavirus ahead of us, are lifting restrictions before we are able to do so. We need to capture the learning that they will have about what the impact of that will be.

On immunity, my understanding of this is that we don't have good enough evidence from anywhere in the world that having coronavirus gives you a level of immunity that means that you can confidently go and provide services to people who have the virus, knowing that you can't be reinfected, or that you can't be a source of difficulties to others. There is a huge amount of work going on in many countries to try and establish that evidence, but, today, you couldn't confidently say to somebody who'd been tested, who the test demonstrates that they've had the virus, that that now means that they can safely go and put themselves in places that otherwise would be a source of risk to them.

The pattern for the future that we are anticipating in Wales depends a great deal on the rate of conformity with the current lockdown arrangements. If it was only 40 per cent, the virus could still be rising. If it's 60 per cent, then we can be pretty confident that the virus rate of spread in the community will be going down. If it's 75 per cent, we may well see a very real suppression of the virus that will last into the weeks ahead. So, the modelling depends upon the extent to which we can go on persuading people to abide by the restrictions. As you know, in Wales, we've had a fantastic response to that, but we need to make sure that that continues.

On testing and on the data-sharing issue particularly, the Information Commissioner put out guidance very early on that said that his office would look sympathetically on measures that were being taken to make sure the data was properly shared, while making it clear that the law has not changed. Therefore, when organisations are sharing data—and remember the data belongs to the patient, not to the organisations; so, it's your data and my data, and the person being tested's data that is being shared—there is still an obligation on organisations to make sure that that is being done in a way that is careful and proportionate. While I don't want general data protection regulation and data-sharing issues to get in the way of doing the right thing, I do understand why people who will be held responsible for the way in which they have made those decisions on our data need to make sure that they are doing it in a way that would continue to stand up to scrutiny from the Information Commissioner and any court of law.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:13, 22 April 2020

We are almost out of time for the statement, and I haven't been able to call a backbencher yet, so if I can extend the time slightly in order to be able to call backbenchers—. We will review this allocation of time and allocation within the time for speakers and party leaders for next week's session in order to allow more backbenchers to be called. If I can ask for succinct questions and succinct answers from now on, I'll try and call as many as possible within the next 10 minutes. Mark Isherwood.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 2:14, 22 April 2020

Diolch, Llywydd. In a letter to you on Monday, Autistic UK Cymru said the Wales regulations—the health protection coronavirus restriction regulations—had been written in a way that further confuses autistic people. In England, people with specific medical needs, including those with learning disabilities or autism who require specific exercise, may leave their homes to exercise in open space two or three times a day. I've been contacted by concerned families across Wales who need the same provision asking why they can't have it in Wales. In your briefing on Monday, you made positive noises about changes to the regulations, including those for people with learning disabilities or autism. Will you now, therefore, ensure that individuals with learning disabilities or autism in Wales who require specific exercise can access that in a way equivalent to that of their colleagues across the border?

Local councils across Wales are facing huge financial pressures as a result of the pandemic, with losses estimated to be in excess of £33 million a month. How will you address the concerns expressed by local authorities in Wales with low levels of reserves that they will go under without financial help to cover the additional costs of providing services during this pandemic? Will you commit to giving the additional £95 million your Government will receive from the UK Government, in consequence of the £1.6 billion announced for local councils in England to fight COVID-19, directly to local authorities in Wales to support the key services they provide, and to the independent care sector for the support they provide in the collective fight against this pandemic?

Finally, in the virtual Plenary two weeks ago, I asked you to clarify provision for critical workers to access childcare and educational settings for their children, after having been contacted by NHS staff in Flintshire who've been told that both parents had to be critical workers in order to qualify. I understand that, in most councils, the rule has been the same, in that where possible in such circumstances if parents could stay at home to look after their child, but where that's not possible, care is being made available. My colleague Suzy Davies learned from the education Minister last Friday, we understand, that all that now needs to be shown is that one parent is a key worker. Could you therefore please clarify and give clear instructions or directions to local authorities on whether that's accurate and whether it is now sufficient for one parent to be a key worker where the other parent is not able to be at home for any part of the day or the week?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:16, 22 April 2020

Llywydd, thank you. We're obliged to review the regulations every 21 days. As a result of our first review, we intend to change the guidance on exercise for families where there is a medical need to have exercise more than once a day, and that will encompass children with autism. We will amend the regulations at the end of this week in the way that Mr Isherwood referred to.

As far as local councils are concerned, we have already given them £110 million more in Wales, well exceeding the £95 million consequential, but of course we are alert to the continuing pressures that local authorities face on their budgets and are in discussions with the WLGA about that additional £95 million, and there will be further assistance for local authorities in Wales.

I believe the guidance has already clarified the position of critical care workers and childcare, but I will make sure that if there is any ambiguity left in the minds of some local authorities that we clarify that with them.

Photo of John Griffiths John Griffiths Labour 2:18, 22 April 2020

First Minister, you made mention of the restrictions on movement and leaving home, and I think that everybody understands the importance of discipline and compliance, as you mentioned, and that you will be guided by the medical and scientific advice in terms of any easing of those restrictions. I wonder if there's any more that you can say at this stage in terms of what early easing of restrictions might look like in Wales. Because I think a lot of people are obviously very interested in that, and the restrictions themselves have an impact on physical and mental health and well-being. So, we're all really pleased that people are observing these restrictions, and that's so important to protect public health and front-line staff. But I think people are very interested in what might happen a little way down the track in terms of early easing, when scientific and medical advice supports that.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:19, 22 April 2020

Thanks to John for that, Llywydd. Look, I'm not going today to give actual examples of what early moves in easing the restrictions might be. What I want people in Wales to know is that we are developing a set of tests that we will apply to any particular measure, the first and foremost test being: what would the impact of carrying out that course of action be on public health? But we will ask questions such as: how could that measure be policed? If you're going to change the rules, can the rules be enforced? And how easily could that be reversed if it turned out to be having an adverse impact? If that was something that caused the virus to spread again, would we be able to reverse it quickly as well?

Whatever measures we introduce, I think there will be a need for a clear set of protocols around that activity, because while I know, as John said, lots of people are looking forward to the day when some of the restrictions can be eased, I think there will be a lot of people fearful about stepping back into ordinary life. We have had weeks in which we have all been abiding by the message, 'Stay home, help protect the NHS, save lives', and as people move beyond that, I think people are going to need the confidence of knowing that there is a set of rules around any activity that means that their health and welfare is being safeguarded. So as we identify the particular measures against the tests, so we will want to work with those sectors to make sure that those protocols and rules are in place to give people the confidence to take up those activities again, because without them, I think people may be nervous about taking those first steps without knowing that we are really thinking that through and making sure that their health and well-being is being properly safeguarded.

Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour 2:21, 22 April 2020

Thank you for your statement, First Minister, and can I add my thanks to those of others to you and your Ministers in terms of everything that you're doing at the moment? It's really, really difficult times for all of us.

Two issues from me: firstly, I know that we all recognise the remarkable voluntary efforts that we're seeing across our communities to help vulnerable neighbours and friends, so could you please update us on Welsh Government's support for the third sector to help underpin the contribution of volunteers? And secondly, following on from what John Griffiths was saying, really, you've already said that the next phase of our response must be led by the scientific advice, so can I ask whether your current evaluation of that advice and the possibility that we might have to manage the impact of the virus on our communities for possibly another 12 to 18 months, does that mean that investment in testing stations, PPE and other equipment, in rapid response teams for future outbreaks and in maintaining community and volunteering networks, in reality, is going to continue for the foreseeable future and until we have an effective vaccination programme?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:22, 22 April 2020

Well, I thank Dawn Bowden for those questions, Llywydd. On the voluntary effort, we have 15,000 new volunteers in the system as a result of the coronavirus appeal. That's more than double the number of volunteers that were previously registered in that system and that's a fantastic response. Here in Wales, the help that we are able to offer that group of people who are not in the shielded category but nevertheless have real vulnerability because they don't have family, friends or neighbours or other networks they can use, the mobilisation of that voluntary effort through community voluntary councils working with local authorities, I think, has been an astonishing strength of the way that we've been able to make sure that those vulnerable people in Wales have not been neglected, not just set to one side. And that is an effort that is going to have to continue for many weeks and months ahead.

I want to take up Dawn's second point, Llywydd, and just underline it: this is a long haul. This is not going to be over quickly. Until there is a vaccination that everybody can feel confident works, then we're going to be living with outbreaks of this virus for quite a long time to come, and as we lift the lockdown, so the surveillance measures in the community, our ability to be able to spot quickly and respond quickly to local flaring up of the virus again, will be an absolutely essential part of the plan that John Griffiths asked me about. Our chief medical officer has already developed a surveillance plan for Wales that we will need as the lockdown begins to be eased, and we are discussing with Public Health Wales this week how that plan can be translated into services on the ground. It will mean a different sort of testing regime, going back to community testing, rather than testing aimed solely at patients and at staff. It will be a huge effort that we will need to mobilise again and that's why, in my opening statement, I emphasised our determination to use the time we have during the next three weeks to put those sorts of plans firmly in place.

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 2:25, 22 April 2020

(Translated)

Today, 15 doctors who are leading health clusters across Wales have sent a robust letter to you, asking for far stricter restrictions in terms of second homes. Will your Government listen to the voices of these clinicians who are calling for a ban on the use of second homes in Wales in order to prevent a second wave of this virus? It’s terrible to think of such a thing after weeks of ongoing pressures on front-line staff, but we have to face that very real possibility. And in planning for that, we must provide assurances to our rural areas and our tourism areas that their needs will be at the forefront of that planning. Do you also agree with me that giving a fine of £60 to those who travel here unnecessarily—well, there’s only one word for it: that is risibly low. Will you support calls made by Plaid Cymru for legislation to increase that fine to £1,000, so that the police can properly punish those who break the rules and travel here unnecessarily?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:26, 22 April 2020

(Translated)

Well, thank you to Siân Gwenllian for those questions. I haven’t yet seen that correspondence, but I do acknowledge the issues that she has raised. We have been working hard with the police forces across Wales and they have used the powers that they currently have. Every weekend they are working and they do fine people who are travelling to Wales unnecessarily; they do turn them back, and they have done that time and time again. Every week I ask the police whether the powers that they currently have are sufficient or whether they want us to do more. And the conclusion we’ve come to, I think, is that we want to bring the police, the Welsh Government and those working in this area to have a look at it. It’s one thing to say that we need to strengthen the measures, but it’s another thing to plan those so that they can deal with any problems that the police do identify. I do want to do that work and if there’s anything else we can do, where the police tell us that would be useful for them, then I am more than happy to go down that particular route.

I don’t agree with Siân Gwenllian about the fines that we can impose on those who don’t comply with the rules. We can’t simply do that for one form of non-compliance. For me, I haven’t seen any evidence that suggests that the levels here in Wales are not effective, and I don’t think that the case has been made to change what we have in place at the moment in that area.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 2:28, 22 April 2020

I'm very grateful to the First Minister for his statement and for his openness in answering these questions. I'd like to return to the subject of procurement, if that's possible. We saw yesterday the absolute chaos of a Permanent Secretary at the Foreign Office being forced to write to a House of Commons select committee to retract evidence that he'd given yesterday afternoon to that same committee on the issue of EU procurement of ventilators. We saw last night reports on the BBC on Newsnight that the privatisation of the health service in England has led to real issues and problems with the procurement of PPE. So, I'd like to ask the First Minister to what extent and whether he believes the chaos that we're seeing across the border in England is having a detrimental effect on the ability of the Welsh Government to procure both the equipment needed for hospitals and personal protection equipment needed for our front-line staff to deliver care for people, and whether the problems being faced by the UK Government in England are causing him difficulties in ensuring that we're able to provide for people and staff working on the front line in Wales.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:29, 22 April 2020

Llywydd, I want to distinguish between two things. On the one hand, we are working very closely with colleagues right across the United Kingdom on procurement. Procuring as a UK is to our advantage because of the extra strength that gives you in the market, and we're working on mutual aid as well. We have recently provided mutual aid to Northern Ireland in a supply of goods that they were about to run out of, and we've had help from Scotland to strengthen our stocks in areas where we were running low.

So, I'm still completely committed to that way of doing things. The contrast I would make, however, is one that Alun Davies points to. Here in Wales, we still have a national health service—a system that is planned, a system that is easy enough for people to be able to operate where common rules happen in all places. The struggle that our colleagues in England face is an atomised service, where people have been encouraged to compete with one another rather than to collaborate with one another. And just at the point when collaboration and working together has to be the way through, they are having to battle the system they now have and the culture that they have created in a way that we simply don't have to here in Wales. 

Photo of Leanne Wood Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru 2:31, 22 April 2020

First Minister, some arrests have been made in connection with the deliberate setting of mountain fires in the Rhondda on Monday evening. People locally are very angry as these fires pose a risk to life. We've got mountain rangers, and I'm sure that people will support those with encouragement. Can you facilitate community involvement in mountain fire prevention? If you don't, I'm concerned that people may take matters into their own hands, such is the level of anger. Can you also tell us what can be done from a Government perspective in terms of messaging to educate people about about the seriousness of setting grass fires, particularly in the time that we're in now?

I wanted to ask about supermarkets as well, and the specialised slots. After a delay, supermarkets now have finally received the information from your Government about customers in the shielded group, so that they can be prioritised for home delivery. So, why are so many people still unable to get those priority slots? Some supermarkets tell me that they're meeting demand, but I'm still hearing complaints from people with legitimate reasons to have a home delivery that they're still unable to secure one. So, you've mentioned that we're in this for the long haul. How can you as a Government increase the capacity of the home delivery service?

And, finally, I wanted to just ask you about key workers. I wrote to your Government earlier today to call for the extension of free public transport that is offered to NHS workers to cover all key workers that are keeping society running in these dangerous conditions. Will you actively consider this offer to recognise the contribution of all key workers, and, further to this, would the Government be prepared to consider meeting the funeral costs of key workers if they've died as a result of contracting COVID-19 as part of their work? As you are aware, funerals can cost in excess of £5,000. These people have died carrying out a public duty. I think it's the least that they deserve. 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:33, 22 April 2020

Llywydd, thanks to Leanne Wood for those questions. I entirely share her concerns about grass fires. We work very hard with the fire and rescue service. I'll make sure that we convey to them the point that she makes about community involvement, because that's a service we would have to rely on to carry that out. But, at a time when we need the fire and rescue service to be assisting our ambulance service, with everything that they are assisting us with in the coronavirus crisis, it is just completely wrong that people are having to deal with events that need never have happened. We've said in the past, as you know—it's often been said that it's young people, it's children who do these things—there is evidence that these are adults who are causing these grass fires, people who really ought to know better. And I thank Leanne for that point about community involvement, and we'll make sure that the fire and rescue service get that message.

On supermarkets, let me just be clear: there was no delay in getting supermarkets the information. There was a considerable delay in some supermarkets taking down off their websites the notice that said they were waiting for the information. They'd had the information for several days, many days in some cases, before they managed to take that notice down. They'd had that information from us. But again, to be clear, it is people in the shielded group—it's not that wider group of people who have other vulnerabilities who are being prioritised through the agreement that we have with the supermarkets, and that's exactly the same in every other part of the United Kingdom. So, all the supermarkets have the data of who are in the shielded group. Where people are being added to the shielded group, as they are because of general practitioners adding names, supermarkets are getting that additional information as well. Lesley Griffiths meets the supermarkets on a weekly basis. They, too, want to extend the number of slots they have available, but increasing their capacity is something that just can't be turned on overnight.

Where there are people who cannot get home delivery via the supermarkets, and where they have a real need, because they can't rely on anybody else to do it for them, that's where local authorities have been stepping in with the volunteers that we referred to earlier. And where any Assembly Member has an individual or a family not able to access the shielded slots for supermarkets but still in need of assistance, it's to the hubs that local authorities have created that we should go, and we've got real evidence of them being able to mobilise help where it is needed.

And as for key workers, I think Leanne said that she'd written today, so I will look out for her letter, and then respond when I've had a chance to consider what she has said in it.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:36, 22 April 2020

(Translated)

I thank the First Minister.