5. Statement by the Minister for International Relations and Welsh Language: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

– in the Senedd at 4:11 pm on 6 May 2020.

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Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 4:11, 6 May 2020

So, the Plenary reconvenes and we move to item 5 on the agenda this afternoon, which is a statement by the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language on coronavirus, and I call on the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language, Eluned Morgan.

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:12, 6 May 2020

I'd like to start, as Minister for international relations, by noting that this week we'll be, in this country, noting VE Day, the end of the war in Europe, a war that I think should be a reminder to us all about what happens when international understanding fails, and, if ever there was an issue that reminds us of how interconnected our world is, then it's surely this coronavirus pandemic.

The COVID-19 crisis has had a profound impact on all aspects of my portfolio, both domestically and internationally. Well over 1 million British travellers were abroad when the pandemic hit, and, since the Foreign and Commonwealth Office issued advice for them to return home, all of our Welsh Government offices overseas have been involved in that repatriation effort, with officials in the middle east and in India particularly busy. This sharing of information has resulted in the successful repatriation of many Welsh citizens, including people like Dr Sundaram—I know the deputy speaker was very active in pushing for him to be returned to Wales. He's an intensive care consultant at the unit in Ysbyty Glan Clwyd, and we helped to return him from India. Now, we're aware that there continue to be Welsh people still stuck abroad who still need our support, and I'd encourage them to contact me so that we can highlight their individual cases to the FCO.

Now, countries all over the world are all scrambling to secure vital products in the fight against COVID-19, and, as Minister for international trade, I'm ensuring that, in our endeavours to secure PPE internationally, there's an understanding that 80 countries have export restrictions in place. The fact that it's hard to secure and buy paracetamol in our shops is largely because of the restrictions that have been imposed by the Indian Government.

But, of course, one of the key challenges we have as a Government now is to work out how we're going to come out of lockdown. The information being provided by our international offices is proving invaluable to give us ideas of how it's being done elsewhere, and I've had direct discussions with my counterparts in Brittany and the Basque Country to learn from their experiences.  

Now, Wales and Africa groups across Wales are expressing huge concern for their partners in Africa. The lockdown there is having a devastating impact on the livelihoods of many millions of Africans, and food prices have dramatically increased in many countries. Now, we're consulting Welsh groups to see how they can use the small grants scheme to support their African partners at this difficult time.

And, on international trade, I can confirm that the second ministerial forum on trade has recently been held, and I remain in close contact with the relevant Ministers across the United Kingdom. Now, the UK Government seems determined to agree a deal with the EU by the end of the year, despite these new circumstances, so negotiations with the United States on a trade deal have now commenced, and work on preparing for negotiations with Japan and other priority countries continues apace. The Trade Bill has been laid in the Commons and we've laid the relevant legislative consent motion here in the Senedd.

I'm going to change to Welsh now.

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:15, 6 May 2020

(Translated)

I will be switching to Welsh now. Dafydd Elis-Thomas has had to reprioritise his entire portfolio as a result of the current crisis and provide emergency funding to support the creative industries, sport and culture, as well as reassigning the work of whole agencies such as Cadw, which have had to close all of their sites.

Now, in particular, I would like to update you on tourism, which is a foundation sector and is absolutely key to the Welsh economy. The sector was one of the first to be hit by the crisis and is among the worst affected. The support that is being provided to the sector by the Welsh Government has been appreciated, but we recognise that there is a long-term challenge facing this industry. And some within the sector are describing it as a 'three winter' challenge.

We are in ongoing discussions with representatives of the tourism sector through the COVID-19 tourism taskforce. Ensuring consumer confidence, as well as securing community support for reopening, will be key. Our campaign 'Visit Wales. Later' has been crucial in trying to strike this sensitive balance on quite a difficult path.

Major events also play a key role within tourism, and I want to manage expectations about restarting major events in Wales. However, I don't foresee any possibility that mass gatherings will return in the near future.

In terms of the Welsh language, COVID-19 has reminded us of the importance of the relationship between technology and the language. It's clear now how reliant we are on technology so that we can continue to work, learn and communicate with family and friends.

Cymraeg 2050 gives technology a central role, and therefore I am pleased to be able to announce today that Cysgliad will be available free of charge to individuals and businesses with fewer than 10 staff by the end of May. Cysgliad is a package that includes a dictionary as well as a Welsh spellchecker and a grammar checker, and it will assist all of us, I'm sure.

But sometimes technology can be a barrier. For example, it's not possible to offer simultaneous translation in Microsoft Teams at present. I have written to Microsoft to ask them to develop this as a matter of urgency.

Although the National Welsh Learning Centre has had to cancel every face-to-face Welsh lesson, the interest in online courses has dramatically increased. In just a week, over 3,000 new learners enrolled and 1,300 of those will start the course during this month.

You will also have seen that we've provided financial support to the National Eisteddfod, and it was important, as the Eisteddfod faced serious financial challenges, that the Welsh Government was there to support this unique festival. The Urdd will host the first digital Eisteddfod, Eisteddfod T, during the Whitsun holiday, and continues to work with the Llamau charity to support vulnerable young people and families.

In February, I launched a consultation on our policy for language transmission in the home, and I wish to announce now that I am to extend the consultation period until the autumn.

I am aware of the importance of the Welsh language particularly in health and care, and I've therefore asked the health Minister to bear this in mind in particular in sensitive end-of-life situations during this difficult time.

So, I'd like to finish by saying that I am extremely grateful to the Deputy Minister for all his co-operation and to all the staff members working within my portfolio, as well as all partners who have been collaborating with us, for responding in such a positive way in the face of the huge challenges that we're facing. I'm sure we will come through these dark times as different people, different organisations and a different country. But there is hope, there is light on the horizon, and it is important that we stand firm together to meet the challenges that still face us.

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 4:20, 6 May 2020

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Minister, and thank you for your work in bringing individuals back to Wales, and for your assistance with some of my constituents in Arfon in that regard too. I'm going to focus on an important aspect of your portfolio, namely the Welsh language. Research work by the University of St Andrews has come to the conclusion that the current pandemic could have a far-reaching impact on communities that are the heartlands of minority languages, including the Welsh language. So, what assessment has your Government undertaken, or what assessment does it intend to undertake, of the impact of the pandemic on the Welsh-speaking heartlands in the west of Wales, and what specific measures are you considering in order to prevent a decline in the viability of the Welsh language as the daily language within those communities?

Now, the Urdd camps—you mentioned the Urdd, but the camps specifically need additional support for the future, so what plans do you have to provide such support? And a few questions on the impact of the pandemic on the Welsh press—a grant of £50,000 has been allocated to the Welsh Books Council for publishers in both languages, so can you tell us how much of that has been provided to Welsh language publishers, and whether that is sufficient? Does the Government have any specific plans for those Welsh publications that continue to be published and therefore can't take advantage of the furlough scheme for their staff? These companies are making losses, because incomes have declined.

And, finally, can you tell us how much the Welsh Government has spent on COVID information advertisements in the Welsh language press, and has there been match funding provided by Westminster for this?

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:22, 6 May 2020

(Translated)

Well, thank you very much, Siân. We're very much aware that this virus—. Well, it's hit every part of Wales, but the effect, of course, is different in different parts of Wales. In terms of how many people are suffering, I think it's fair to say that some of those Welsh speaking areas haven't had the impact that some of the areas in the east have had, but, of course, the impact from the economy has been very striking indeed, and is likely to be ongoing in terms of tourism, particularly, and also agriculture, of course. There have been particular losses in terms of the dairy sector, and that is going to have a huge impact on that sector of the economy. So, we are highly aware of this. We have had some discussions with the partnership council, and have been discussing some of those fundamental issues, such as the chapels. People aren't going to those Welsh-speaking chapels, so we are considering what we can do to provide some assistance to them. So, we are having those discussions already.

In terms of the Urdd, I have been in regular contact with the Urdd from the very outset. Of course, the Urdd and the Urdd camps were some of the first centres to have closed, and, of course, in fairness to the Urdd, they do raise a great deal of their funding themselves—some 75 per cent comes from their camps. Of course, they have now been closed, and the difficulty is in trying to envisage when they will be able to reopen, and that is a very difficult thing to do at the moment. We are having regular discussions with the Urdd, and we were discussing this this afternoon with the education Minister to see whether there is any support that we can provide, but I do think that what's important is that we highlight the huge contribution that the Urdd has made to our nation. But they are facing huge challenges now in terms of the blow that they've suffered as a result of the closure of their facilities. 

Now, of course, we still provide funding to the papurau bro in terms of ensuring that the Welsh language remains strong there. I’m not sure exactly of the breakdown between the Welsh-medium press and the English language press, but I can return to you on that. In terms of advertisements, you will be aware that Welsh language standards still apply for the Welsh Government and, therefore, those advertisements will be bilingual, but we’ve received no additional funding from the UK Government for that.

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 4:25, 6 May 2020

(Translated)

Thank you very much. I will turn now to two other issues that aren’t related to the COVID crisis, you’ll be pleased to hear, perhaps. What’s your view on the statutory instrument on the census, which is currently going through Westminster, in terms of gathering data on the number of Welsh speakers? The likelihood is that a sampling system will be used for those who are unable to complete the census online. And, of course, that could mean that the data on the number of Welsh speakers will be incomplete. Will your Government oppose the use of sampling in Wales as part of the 2021 census?

Finally, it appears that your Government will introduce the education curriculum Bill over the next few weeks. Can you confirm that you, as Minister for the Welsh language, will carry out a thorough assessment of the impact of the Bill on the Welsh language and on Welsh-medium education? There is one specific issue that is a cause for concern and that is the intention of the new legislation to provide powers to governing bodies rather than local authorities in terms of the language policies of schools. The decision to adopt immersion approaches during the foundation phase would be a choice for every separate governing body, and you can just imagine that that would undermine the robust language policies of a number of local authorities and would be a severe blow to the development of Welsh-medium education across Wales. So, will you hold urgent discussions with the education Minister in order to ensure that we strengthen the position of the Welsh language rather than weakening it through the new curriculum Bill?

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:27, 6 May 2020

(Translated)

Thank you. Well, in terms of the census, we are keeping a close eye on how those questions are posed because people answer in different ways depending on the question asked, of course. So, we are keeping a very close eye on that. We will have to look at sampling and consider what they’re likely to ask in that area and how that could perhaps impact the census. The important thing with the census is that you compare one decade with the next. Therefore, I do think that sampling is likely to introduce changes and perhaps not provide us with the assessment that we would expect to have. But we are in a different situation now, perhaps, and we will continue with those negotiations on the census.

In terms of the curriculum, well, I’ve just come off a call with the education Minister and we were discussing this very issue. So, you can be confident that I am keeping a close eye on what’s happening. The Minister for Education is aware of the situation and is committed to ensuring that we do keep a close eye on developments. Of course, we don’t want to change the policy that we currently have or see that anything within that curriculum Bill would have a detrimental impact on what we have already developed and achieved.

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative 4:29, 6 May 2020

Can I thank you, Minister, for your statement and very much warmly associate myself with the words that you said in reference to VE Day, about the importance of international co-operation? That is a very timely reminder, I think, the anniversary of VE Day that's upon us this week. Can I also thank you for the assistance that you've given to people from my own constituency, as a Welsh Government, who have been stuck overseas in recent weeks? Obviously, it's been a very distressing time for them and their families, and I was particularly pleased to see my constituent Dr Sundaram returned, as were the patients who he's been caring for in Ysbyty Glan Clwyd during this particular crisis.

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but your statement did imply some criticism of the UK Government for its determination to secure a free trade deal with the EU by the end of the year. If that's not the case, then I apologise for having suggested it, but it did seem to suggest that you were criticising the UK Government for going full steam ahead with that. Clearly, we're in the middle of a crisis, absolutely, but it's all the more important therefore that we have a basis from which our economy can rebound from that crisis, and free trade deals with the EU, with the USA, with Japan, and indeed with other nations, are one way that we can help the global economy to get back on its feet post COVID. So, do you accept that it's actually quite a good thing that the UK Government is pressing ahead with trying to secure those trade deals, and can you confirm that the Welsh Government is able to participate and contribute to those discussions? Because obviously we want these to be good deals for all parts of the UK, including Wales, and to make sure that our priorities are heard via the Welsh Government, yes, and also, of course, via the UK Government as well while their feet are at the table.

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:31, 6 May 2020

Thank you. Yes, it was really good to be able to support those Welsh people who have been stuck abroad, and particularly good to welcome home somebody who can make such a huge contribution to the NHS. We were very pleased that we could support him and so many other people from Wales who've managed to come home. There are still some people abroad. I know that the UK Government now have put about £75 million towards chartering planes to bring people home, because many countries have closed their air space. So, whilst they're encouraging people to come home via commercial airlines, in some countries that's simply not possible, and that's why those chartered flights have had to be put on. There are still some abroad and they're, of course, the more difficult cases to come home. It's probably worth also emphasising that there are loans available for those people who may be getting into financial trouble while they're abroad at the moment as well. 

In terms of the trade agreements, I think most people would recognise that we've got quite a lot on our plate at the moment, in terms of not just the Welsh Government, but also the UK Government. It is pretty clear to us that the UK Government is, at the moment, still very keen to make sure that they try to get an agreement by the end of the year in terms of Brexit. I think what we would caution is the fact that if you can't get a deal by the end of the year, then the impact economically for us—and this was before COVID—could be pretty far reaching. And, even if you were able to negotiate the best trade deal in the world with the United States, even the case that the UK Government have put forward is that the best outcome we could expect is an increase of about 0.16 per cent contribution to our gross domestic product over a course of 15 years. Now, you compare that with what happens if we leave the EU without a trade deal, we'd be down about 9.3 per cent over 15 years. So, really, I think we have to think very carefully about this, but I'm sure my colleague Jeremy Miles will want to explore that a bit further later on. But, if they are terribly anxious to persevere with that, I would absolutely caution, give them a degree of caution that I think that they should consider at this particular time. We do, of course, accept now that Brexit has happened. 

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative 4:34, 6 May 2020

Can I turn my attention now to the other part of your statement that dealt with tourism, if that's okay? So, I was very pleased to hear you refer to tourism, because, of course, it is a little bit disappointing, I have to say, that we haven't had statements on this particular theme in our virtual Plenary sessions since the start of this pandemic.

Tourism, of course, is a vital part of our economy, as you've already recognised, and you will have seen that there was a recent report from the University of Southampton and the Centre for Towns that made reference to the fact that it looks like coastal communities are going to be particularly hard hit as a result of this current pandemic, and find it perhaps more difficult to be able to recover than others. And that's, of course, because most coastal towns, certainly on the north Wales coast, are heavily dependent on tourism for their economic well-being.

You made reference to the taskforce that's been established on tourism. I'm pleased that there is some focus within Government on this issue. Can you tell us who sits on that taskforce? Can you also tell us what particular action the Welsh Government is taking, given the more significant contribution of tourism to our economy, to actually have a look at how it can modify some of its economic resilience funding in order to support better the tourism industry? We know that we've got lots of seasonal workers, for example, who didn't qualify for the coronavirus retention scheme, but a good proportion of their income would be spent locally, and they're not able to do that because they don't have sufficient spending power.

The UK Government has also established a zoos support fund recently, to support animal attractions across England. Do you have plans to establish something similar here in Wales? We've got the Welsh Mountain Zoo, in my own constituency, Anglesey Sea Zoo, and a whole host of other attractions across Wales that might be able to benefit from that. And I do think that it's about time that we tried to plug some of these gaps that we've currently got in the industry. Because what we don't want to do is lose some of these fantastic attractions, which were thriving businesses before the pandemic, and can continue to be, providing they get the right support to get through.

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:36, 6 May 2020

Thank you. I think you're absolutely right that we are incredibly aware of the impact that this coronavirus could and is having on our tourism sector. And the problem is that it looks like it's going to be a long-term issue, if you think about social distancing and the practical issues of getting people into hotels, of serving food—this is not going to be a quick fix by any means. And that's why we have been discussing in those COVID-19 meetings with those representatives—there are representatives, regional representatives, at those bodies, there's also a representative who's the Welsh representative to the UK tourism representation, where they are discussing the same kinds of things, so there's a direct link into what's happening in the UK as well.

And one of the things that they're starting to talk about is what protocols need to be put in place in order to reopen those facilities, because that's going to be critical to building the confidence of people to come back. And that's part of the problem, that we could be in a situation when we start to open facilities that actually people won't come, unless they are absolutely confident that those measures are in place to protect public health. We've also been in constant touch with people in places like Llandudno, for example. I've spoken to some of the bed and breakfast representatives there, who were desperately anxious before furlough was introduced, and calmed down quite a lot after that, but of course many are very concerned about what will happen if and when furlough comes to an end. So that's a very difficult issue for us.

I know that zoos are haemorrhaging money at the moment, and I'm particularly aware of what's happening in Folly Farm in Pembrokeshire, for example. There are no plans at the moment to look at that, but I think we recognise that that is a particularly unique situation, so maybe we can look at that. Let me go away and have a think about that one.

Photo of Jenny Rathbone Jenny Rathbone Labour 4:38, 6 May 2020

Thank you very much for your statement, Eluned. I'm particularly concerned to hear that there's so much suffering going on in Africa because of the spike in food prices, but hopefully we can help do our bit to mitigate that.

Three things. One is, I had a meeting with university vice-chancellors just before Plenary, along with David Rees and others. And I was interested to hear that there is still quite a lot of interest amongst international students wanting to come and study in Wales—particularly, Cardiff University emphasised that there's a lot of interest. So I think it's more about, as we move forward in beating this pandemic, how we can make international students confident that Wales is a good place to come to study, given that, wherever people are living, we have got to live with coronavirus for the time being. So, obviously they'll want to be certain that the public health standards that they've come to have in their own countries are being applied in this country. So, I wondered what discussions you're having with the UK Government on instituting temperature taking at airports, testing, and mandatory two-weeks' isolation for anybody coming from abroad, regardless of their nationality. It seems to me that that would reassure both international students and the communities like mine who are going to be hosting international students, were they to be studying at Cardiff University, going forward. There might even be an opportunity—

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 4:40, 6 May 2020

Can you come to a conclusion, please?

Photo of Jenny Rathbone Jenny Rathbone Labour

Okay. Separately, I wanted to ask you about the international discussions—the free trade discussions that are going on with the United States, because I'm somewhat alarmed that we might be rushing into an agreement with the United States that could have horrendous implications for Welsh farming and Welsh food. The way in which the US food industry has failed to manage coronavirus, which has led to the death of many food-processing workers in the United States, is not exactly an advert for why we definitely don't want those sorts of lowered food standards coming to our country. So, I wondered if you have had any discussions with the UK Government on this to reassure us that we will not be having much lower food standards imposed on us.

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:41, 6 May 2020

Thank you. Well, it's been quite interesting, the British Council have done quite a lot of surveys in relation to the interest of Chinese students—whether they still want to come to study in the United Kingdom. And it's quite interesting, as you say, that the majority of them still seem to be very interested. There are about 39 per cent of them from China who seem to be undecided, and so that suggests that we do need to put some measures in place to make sure that they do have that confidence that you talk about. And that's why these protocols are going to be really, really important, I think, going forward, to give them that confidence. Indian and Pakistan students, in the same survey by the British Council, they suggest that 50 per cent of them are not likely to cancel their plans and they seem to be more interested in making sure that they follow through on that. There have been discussions with Global Wales and the UK Government about how we build the confidence of those people.

Of course, since about 29 January, there has been a need to self-isolate, if you're showing symptoms, coming into this country from elsewhere. But I think there probably is a question that we still need to ask, and it is something that I asked Frank Atherton this morning, which is: should we be, perhaps, going a little bit further and suggesting that everybody who comes in should self-isolate for a couple of weeks? It's quite interesting to note that we seem to be slightly different from a lot of other countries in the world on that one. But that is something that we discuss at our weekly meetings with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. I have had, as I say, a meeting with the education Minister where we discussed some of those issues.

On free trade, I did have a discussion yesterday with Greg Hands, who's the Minister responsible for the negotiation with the United States on creating that new free trade agreement. I did emphasise the importance of making sure that those standards that we hold dear are adhered to, but that the language in the negotiation mandate is pretty vague and that, actually, we think it should be tightened up. I think it is important that they understand, and it is something that I emphasise very clearly, that we do want to make sure that we stick to these high environmental standards, animal welfare standards, labour standards, and consumer standards. Those are all things that we will be looking out for in those agreements. He understood that and we emphasised the importance of a level playing field when it comes to imports into this country, and that the standards that we expect, in terms of animal welfare, for example, need to be adhered to, otherwise there could be a danger that they could undercut what we are able to produce in this country.

Photo of David Lloyd David Lloyd Plaid Cymru 4:44, 6 May 2020

(Translated)

May I thank the Minister for her statement and thank her for her support for all of my constituents who have found themselves in different nations recently and have been able to make their way home? So, thank you very much for that.

There are a number of issues that have already been mentioned, so I will just focus on social care. You mentioned in your statement the importance of care, particularly end-of-life care, and Welsh-medium provision in that sector. Of course, we all understand the relaxation and the abolition of some of the regulations in the care sector because of this COVID-19 outbreak, but could I ask you what you are doing personally to ensure, as far as possible, that Welsh-medium care is available to our older people in the care sector, particularly those who are first-language Welsh speakers?

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:45, 6 May 2020

(Translated)

Thank you, Dai. I am entirely aware that this is a hugely important issue for people, particularly in some areas of Wales, and that’s why I have written to the health Minister to ensure that he is aware of the importance of the Welsh language, particularly when it comes to end-of-life issues and ensuring that there is awareness and that there are staff available who are able to have discussions in people’s mother tongue. Now, the commissioner has said during this period that he will not be pursuing hospitals and other healthcare facilities in relation to standards at the moment, but I do think that it’s important to highlight just how important an issue this is for some of those patients who are facing an appalling situation at the moment. So, that has been emphasised to the health Minister.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 4:47, 6 May 2020

Referring to your responsibility for tourism in and to Wales, holiday parks and many other tourism businesses receive most of their annual income between Easter, which they've already lost, and the October half term. Even if they manage to stay afloat this autumn, they fear they will go under over the winter impacting on the jobs they provide and all the businesses in their communities they and their customers sustain. What plans, therefore, does the Welsh Government have to support Welsh tourism businesses taking account of their seasonal nature and, thereby, to protect our coastal and rural communities? 

And regarding culture and the arts, in Flintshire, north Wales music tuition centres have been told that they're ineligible for the Welsh Government's £10,000 business grant, because they don't receive small business rate relief. Will you therefore confirm whether the arts sector and other recipients of charity and not-for-profit organisation business rate relief with a rateable value of £12,000 or less are also eligible? 

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:48, 6 May 2020

Thank you. It is a real concern, in terms of the tourism sector, that we are talking about this three-winter prospect that they are confronting. Now, I think there's so much we can do as a Welsh Government, but this is a matter that the UK Government also understands, and so, we will be making sure that, as far as possible, we are asking them to help us out in this very specific sector that is really perhaps more exposed than many other sectors because of the seasonal nature that you emphasised. Furlough is great while it lasts. But, as you mentioned, there are also lots of people who perhaps are employed on a seasonal basis that may be not eligible to apply for furlough because that season hadn't quite started. So, already there are people who are very exposed. 

When it comes to culture and the arts, you will have seen that some of our funding for the arts and sports, we have repurposed that; about £17 million has been repurposed. There is a £1 million cultural resilience fund and there's a £7 million arts resilience fund that maybe you could suggest that they look at as an alternative. But you may have seen today also that there has been an extension to the support in terms of business rates grants that will be open for sports clubs and for charities as well. So, maybe they could look at that now as an alternative source.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 4:49, 6 May 2020

Minister, I want to focus on the international trade aspects of your responsibilities, and in your statement, you highlight the fact that the UK Government is continuing—or, actually, has just started its UK-US trade deal discussions, and it's still ongoing with its UK-EU trade deal discussions. My concern is that they may be trying to play each other off, and in a year in which there are political ambitions in America for a President who's coming up for re-election, that may be dangerous. But can I ask a question as to how much feedback you are getting, Minister, on the progress of those discussions? And also, what involvement is the Welsh Government having in setting the negotiation mandates for Japan? Because you've highlighted that, actually, the Japanese agreement will be more important to Wales than the US agreement. So, are you having any input into setting the mandate for the Japanese discussions?

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:50, 6 May 2020

Thank you. The negotiations with the US only started yesterday and, obviously, they were very much broad opening discussions, so, there was not much detail being talked about. There are a 100 people involved in those negotiations from the UK Government side alone and, of course, it was useful, therefore, to be able to speak to the Minister responsible yesterday and to highlight those things that we have been highlighting for many months about the priorities for us in Wales. Of course, amongst those is a commitment to make sure that the NHS is protected. We also made it clear to him that, actually, just keeping the mandate where it is now, which is not going backwards from where we are, perhaps won't be enough, because it may be that, at some point in future, we may want to look at better integration of health and care, and so it may not be enough to just go from where we are and to secure where we are.

Beyond that, we've made it clear that we expect this negotiation to continue with the devolved administrations. To be fair, they have really been quite respectful so far. The problem is, of course, we still don't have a formal situation, and that was something that I was able to emphasise once again yesterday—that, until we get a formal concordat in place, then we feel a little bit exposed, despite the fact that they are actually respecting and involving us in the pre-negotiation phase. And that's also true for Japan. So, our officials are very much involved in building up those discussions ready for the Japan negotiation.

But, we are confident that we are able to state our opinions very clearly and that they are actually taking on board some of the concerns we have. One of those is the climate change issue, for example, where it's pretty clear that the United States is not going to be willing to play on some of those grounds. But who knows what might happen in terms of the United States elections? There may be scope for us to reopen some of those issues at a later stage. One of the interesting things that I've learnt as well, though, is that, whilst in the past we thought that the whole negotiating with the United States may just come to a standstill during the US presidential elections, it does seem now as if those negotiations will be continuing throughout the presidential elections.

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 4:53, 6 May 2020

Thank you. And finally, Mohammad Asghar.

Photo of Mohammad Asghar Mohammad Asghar Conservative

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer and thank you, Minister, for your statement. I appreciate your concern on tourism. Visit Wales has released the result of a survey of tourism businesses taken after the lockdown that makes grim reading. Ninety-six per cent of businesses expect the future impact of the virus to be significantly negative on the sector.

Operators have called on both Governments to help their businesses by urgently revealing an exit strategy, pointing out that, even if they reopen in June, they will have lost a great key part of the prime tourism season in Wales. Given the vital importance of tourism to the Welsh economy, what discussion, Minister, have you had with ministerial colleagues and others about ensuring that Wales retains a viable tourism industry, especially—which is my concern—rural area tourism, which, in fact, creates more than £8 billion for the Welsh economy? How are you going to deal with it, and how quickly are you going to deal with it? Thank you.  

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:54, 6 May 2020

Thank you. One of the things that I think has been very clever in terms of the marketing strategy is to make sure that that's been changed slightly during this period. So, the phrase, 'Visit Wales. Later' has been something that we've been trying to emphasise. But it is a tightrope that we've got to walk here, because for the time being, it is difficult to encourage people to come to those areas. That's not something we want to see at the moment but there will come a point where we want that to happen, so it is important that we get that positioning right. As you say, there's real fear within the sector and I don't think it would be right for the Government to just be striking out and saying, 'This is how we want to come out of this'. We've got to do this with the sector. The sector has to be involved with it, and that's why we are working with the sector very closely at the moment to look at what protocols should be put in place to help us come out of this, to build people's confidence, to know that when they're going into some of these tourism sectors those places will have been deep-cleaned or those social distancing issues will be respected, and that there will be a limit to how many people can go into particular places. But all of those things have to be agreed with the industry and we can't do it alone.

I think just the other thing to emphasise—. I obviously work extremely closely with my colleague Dafydd Elis-Thomas, and Ken Skates I know has a real interest in this portfolio as well. The one thing I would emphasise is that you're absolutely right: although there may be an increased emphasis in some of our rural areas, the one thing that I know my colleague Dafydd Elis-Thomas is always keen to emphasise is that tourism is something for the whole of Wales; it is not specific to any particular part. It does touch on so many parts of Wales and that's why you're absolutely right: we need to be there for the sector. 

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 4:56, 6 May 2020

Thank you very much, Minister.