12. Debate: Stage 4 on the Wild Animals and Circuses (Wales) Bill

– in the Senedd at 3:47 pm on 15 July 2020.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 3:47, 15 July 2020

(Translated)

The next item is the debate on Stage 4 of the Wild Animals and Circuses (Wales) Bill, and before inviting the Minister to contribute, I should say—. I call on the Minister to make a statement regarding Queen's consent, in accordance with Standing Order 26.67. I call on the Minister—Lesley Griffiths.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 3:48, 15 July 2020

Diolch, Llywydd. I have it in command from Her Majesty the Queen to acquaint the Senedd that her Majesty, having been informed of the purpose of the Wild Animals and Circuses (Wales) Bill, has given her consent to this Bill.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative

Thank you, Presiding Officer. There is a—

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

I do apologise.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

Andrew R.T. Davies, I'm sorry, the Minister now needs to move the motion as well as informing us of the consent of Her Majesty. So, the Minister to speak, and I'll call you next, Andrew R.T. Davies. My apologies.

(Translated)

Motion NDM7357 Lesley Griffiths

To propose that the Senedd in accordance with Standing Order 26.47:

Approves the Wild Animals and Circuses (Wales) Bill.

(Translated)

Motion moved.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 3:48, 15 July 2020

Diolch, Llywydd, and I move the motion. I'm very pleased to open this afternoon's debate on the Wild Animals and Circuses (Wales) Bill, following completion of Stage 3 last week.

I introduced this Bill just over a year ago. Its purpose is to address ethical concerns by banning the use of wild animals in travelling circuses. To make an ethical decision that reflects the views of the people of Wales, I have considered overall public opinion on this issue. The Bill's development was informed by a consultation that attracted over 6,500 responses. The overwhelming majority of respondents supported the introduction of legislation that would make it an offence for a wild animal to be used in a travelling circus. I'm grateful to all who took time to respond to the consultation and share their thoughts on this issue.

Circuses are commercial operations that exist to provide entertainment. This type of entertainment when it includes wild animals is outdated. Wild animals are sentient beings with complex needs. They should not be objectified or perceived as commodities for our entertainment. Children in particular should be protected from negative and inaccurate experiences that could influence how they believe animals behave and how they should be treated. I want our young people growing up with respectful and responsible attitudes towards all species.

I would like to thank all those who contributed to getting the Bill to this stage, starting with the small but extremely dedicated Bill team in the office of the chief veterinary officer who, with support from colleagues across Government, have worked tirelessly. I also wish to acknowledge the determined lobbying by individuals and third sector organisations on this issue. I'm grateful to the committees and Members of the Senedd for their consideration and scrutiny of the Bill and to the Senedd Commission staff for their support in the Bill process.

I would particularly like to thank representatives of organisations and individuals who took time to provide evidence to the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee. These included the British Veterinary Association, People for Ethical Treatment of Animals, RSPCA Cymru, academics and representatives from the circus industry. The strength of feeling on this emotive subject, from both sides of the debate, was obvious during those evidence sessions. This was also reflected during the scrutiny sessions I attended and the debates we've had here in the Senedd. There has been disagreement about the scope of the Bill, its provisions and definitions. Nonetheless, I think it is true to say there is a good deal of consensus amongst Members on what we're trying to achieve with this Bill.

The Bill, should it become law, will be enforced by local authorities. There will be minimal impact on local authorities, and I expect travelling circuses to comply with the ban. I would expect, in the majority of situations, the offence of using a wild animal would be publicly obvious. I've already committed to producing guidance and will consult with local authorities on the development of that guidance.

A ban on the use of wild animals in travelling circuses in Wales is overdue and will allow for a consistent approach across Great Britain. The Scottish Government banned it in 2018, and a ban in England came into force earlier this year. If passed today, and subject to Royal Assent, the Bill will come into force on 1 December 2020. The passing of this Bill will represent a significant step forward for wild animals in Wales and beyond, and I urge Members to support it today. Diolch yn fawr.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 3:52, 15 July 2020

Minister, thank you for your opening statement on the Stage 4 proceedings. As Welsh Conservatives, we're pleased to support the Bill's progress into law. It is a fact, though, that, sadly, Wales is the last part of the United Kingdom to bring this legislation into action, and instead of leading on this, we've been following what, as you highlighted in your remarks, Scotland and England have already done. But, hopefully, with those 6,000 responses, people will have confidence now that the legislation that will come into force once Royal Assent is achieved will protect wild animals from travelling with circuses across the whole of the United Kingdom.

I'd like to put on record my thanks to the staff of the committee and to the witnesses who came before us on both sides of the debate and provided us with such excellent evidence, and in particular the staff who provided such quality research for us to deliberate in this particular area. I do think the Bill could have been strengthened if the amendments that we tabled around training and suitably qualified people taking tests and samples from any animals where there's a dispute had been incorporated within the finished piece of legislation, but I respect the Minister's position, and it's her right to either accept those amendments or not.

We must remember that this Bill will only affect about 19 animals in total, which currently travel with two particular circuses, but that's not to say that if this Bill hadn't been put in place there wouldn't have been a greater number of animals suffering through touring as well with circuses. So, it's important that enforcement measures are put in place to make sure that local authorities feel confident that should, in the future, they need to deploy this legislation, they can, and effectively deploy it. I look forward to the Bill going to the vote and, ultimately, receiving Royal Assent in August.

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru 3:54, 15 July 2020

(Translated)

Plaid Cymru will support this Bill this afternoon. Plaid Cymru has been committed to legislating on this issue for a number of years, and it's good to see that that will be delivered today.

I will echo the thanks to everyone who's participated, particularly through the committee's work, in ensuring that the Bill gets on to the statute book, it is hoped, in a little while. The only thing that leaves a slightly sour taste in the mouth is that it has taken so long to get to this point. There was a statement of opinion back in 2006—some Members who were here at that time will recall that—and it then took until 2015 for the Welsh Government to agree that there is no place for the use of wild animals in circuses. Wales was in the vanguard at that point, but since then, sluggishness has meant that Scotland has legislated, the Republic of Ireland has legislated, England has legislated, and today we are behind, but we are reaching the point where we're legislating because there is a risk that Wales could become a haven for circuses that wanted to use wild animals if we weren't to take this step this afternoon.

Now, the scope of the legislation is more limited than I would have wanted to have seen. It focuses only on the prohibition of performance and exhibition of animals. We tried to include travelling wild animals with circuses, and that would have been closer to the statement of opinion that I referred to back in 2006, which stated that

'the temporary nature of the transportation, housing and exercise facilities simply cannot provide the space and enrichment these animals need.'

That remains the case, and it will be the case even after passing this legislation. But the legislation before us is better than having nothing at all in this context.

It is clear, as we've heard, that the public want to see legislation, Plaid Cymru is eager to legislate, and I hope that this Senedd too will be eager to legislate in order to prohibit the use of wild animals in travelling circuses here in Wales.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 3:56, 15 July 2020

(Translated)

The Minister to reply to the contributions—Lesley Griffiths. 

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour

Diolch, Llywydd, and I thank Andrew R.T. Davies and Llyr Huws Gruffydd for their contributions. While I appreciate that they are disappointed their amendments weren't accepted, I can assure them both, along with all Members, particularly of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee under the chairmanship of Mike Hedges, that they've made this legislation what it is, and I'm grateful for everyone's support. Diolch.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 3:57, 15 July 2020

(Translated)

In accordance with Standing Order 26.50C, a recorded vote must be taken on a Stage 4 motion, so I defer voting until voting time.

(Translated)

Voting deferred until voting time.