Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

Part of 1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd at 10:13 am on 15 July 2020.

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Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 10:13, 15 July 2020

I just reject the language of lagging behind. We are doing the things that are right for Wales. That does not mean following anybody else just because they have done something that we have decided not to do.

Llywydd, if you would allow me, I just want to take a minute more than I normally would to explain the Welsh Government's position on this issue, given that it is a matter of public interest. First of all, it's important to think of the context here. Regulations require that any restriction on the liberty of Welsh citizens has to be proportionate to the public health risk that is faced.

What is the state of the virus here in Wales? Well, it is at its lowest ebb since the onset of the crisis. The positivity rate in the 7,000 tests a day that were carried out in Wales over the weekend was 0.25 per cent—one quarter of 1 per cent—or 20 tests out of 7,000 returning as being positive. By contrast, the positivity rate in Blackburn, where lockdown measures are being reintroduced, is 7 per cent—30 times the rate in Wales. Large parts of Wales didn't have a single positive case over the whole of last weekend—14 of the 22 local authorities, from memory, without a single reported positive case. The proportionality test: is it proportionate to require every Welsh citizen going into a shop to wear a face covering, when the virus is in such a low state of circulation here in Wales?

Then, the issue of shops. Well, shops are different in Wales because our regulations are different. Quite unlike across our border, we have had the 2m social distancing rule in regulations, and it remains the default position here in Wales: a legal obligation on businesses to take all reasonable measures to ensure a 2m distance. And, since Monday, there are now new legal obligations on shops to take a further set of mitigating measures where a 2m distance cannot be sustained, and letters have gone to all the major supermarkets yesterday ensuring that they are aware of the law in Wales and their obligation to adhere to it. 

And then, finally, Llywydd, is it unambiguously and clearly advantageous that access to shops should be denied to those not wearing face coverings? Our chief medical officer's advice has not changed: they have a marginal utility but they also have identifiable downsides. Some people behave more riskily because they are wearing a face covering. Some people can't wear face coverings: people with lung conditions, people with asthmatic conditions. Some people are disadvantaged when others wear face coverings: the visually impaired, people relying on lip reading. And, once it's compulsory, it will have to be enforced. So, Llywydd, we keep it all under review. I've asked for further advice, for example, on suggestions that supermarkets in tourist destinations have been crowded over this last weekend as populations in those areas increase. Mandatory use of face coverings as part of a local lockdown, should that become necessary, would certainly be part of a potential repertoire here in Wales. And if the prevalence of coronavirus in Wales were to rise, our advice would be revisited. In the meantime, the position in Wales is that anybody going into a shop who wishes to wear a face mask is absolutely entitled to do so. Our advice is that, if it's crowded, you should wear one. But, should we made it mandatory in all the conditions I've described? Should we trespass on people's liberty to that extent? We haven't reached that point in Wales.