1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd at 10:12 am on 15 July 2020.
Questions now from the party leaders. First of all today, the leader of Plaid Cymru, Adam Price.
Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, last week, a study published by Oxford's Leverhulme Centre for Demographic Science found that face coverings are effective in reducing the spread of COVID-19 for the wearer and those around them, and this adds, of course, to a growing body of evidence that supports the same conclusion. The study further noted that after the World Health Organization announced the pandemic in mid March, some 70 countries immediately recommended the universal use of masks. To date, more than 120 nations now require mask wearing—that's more than 60 per cent of the world. They're mandatory in Scotland, as we know, in shops, and the same will be true in England from 24 July—a rather inexplicable delay, in my view.
Your careful approach, in terms of the easing of restrictions, has served well in many ways, but you now, I think, risk treading the line between being too cautious and being too slow on this issue. Why is Wales lagging behind when so many other countries have acted so decisively?
I just reject the language of lagging behind. We are doing the things that are right for Wales. That does not mean following anybody else just because they have done something that we have decided not to do.
Llywydd, if you would allow me, I just want to take a minute more than I normally would to explain the Welsh Government's position on this issue, given that it is a matter of public interest. First of all, it's important to think of the context here. Regulations require that any restriction on the liberty of Welsh citizens has to be proportionate to the public health risk that is faced.
What is the state of the virus here in Wales? Well, it is at its lowest ebb since the onset of the crisis. The positivity rate in the 7,000 tests a day that were carried out in Wales over the weekend was 0.25 per cent—one quarter of 1 per cent—or 20 tests out of 7,000 returning as being positive. By contrast, the positivity rate in Blackburn, where lockdown measures are being reintroduced, is 7 per cent—30 times the rate in Wales. Large parts of Wales didn't have a single positive case over the whole of last weekend—14 of the 22 local authorities, from memory, without a single reported positive case. The proportionality test: is it proportionate to require every Welsh citizen going into a shop to wear a face covering, when the virus is in such a low state of circulation here in Wales?
Then, the issue of shops. Well, shops are different in Wales because our regulations are different. Quite unlike across our border, we have had the 2m social distancing rule in regulations, and it remains the default position here in Wales: a legal obligation on businesses to take all reasonable measures to ensure a 2m distance. And, since Monday, there are now new legal obligations on shops to take a further set of mitigating measures where a 2m distance cannot be sustained, and letters have gone to all the major supermarkets yesterday ensuring that they are aware of the law in Wales and their obligation to adhere to it.
And then, finally, Llywydd, is it unambiguously and clearly advantageous that access to shops should be denied to those not wearing face coverings? Our chief medical officer's advice has not changed: they have a marginal utility but they also have identifiable downsides. Some people behave more riskily because they are wearing a face covering. Some people can't wear face coverings: people with lung conditions, people with asthmatic conditions. Some people are disadvantaged when others wear face coverings: the visually impaired, people relying on lip reading. And, once it's compulsory, it will have to be enforced. So, Llywydd, we keep it all under review. I've asked for further advice, for example, on suggestions that supermarkets in tourist destinations have been crowded over this last weekend as populations in those areas increase. Mandatory use of face coverings as part of a local lockdown, should that become necessary, would certainly be part of a potential repertoire here in Wales. And if the prevalence of coronavirus in Wales were to rise, our advice would be revisited. In the meantime, the position in Wales is that anybody going into a shop who wishes to wear a face mask is absolutely entitled to do so. Our advice is that, if it's crowded, you should wear one. But, should we made it mandatory in all the conditions I've described? Should we trespass on people's liberty to that extent? We haven't reached that point in Wales.
The University of Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation recently projected the difference between universal use of face masks in the UK between now and November would be 20,000 additional deaths. On a proportionate basis, we would be talking about around a 1,000 deaths potentially in Wales. As part of the review that he's referred to, would he specifically ask the technical advisory cell and the chief medical officer to look at that study and whether it does have an evidential force that would suggest that we need to change the policy and we need to change it fast?
Can I ask the First Minister—? In relation to the care sector, we've heard from Care Forum Wales their expression of disappointment that they've not been given any assurances on whether weekly testing for staff will continue. Are you able today, First Minister, to allay the sector's concerns and announce your care home testing strategy going forward?
On Mr Price's first point, I've seen that study, and I'm very happy to ask the technical advisory group to look at it. At first reading, it does seem very implausible. We have managed in Wales to go from a position where we were reporting many tens of deaths every day to a position where there was no death at all reported in three or four days over the weekend, and during that period face coverings were never compulsory at all. So, how it is plausibly argued that we would have 1,000 extra deaths prevented simply by wearing face coverings—? At first reading, I found that very difficult to understand and to see the force of that argument, particularly when face coverings are nowhere near as much of a protection to you as sustaining a 2m social distance and doing the other things that have a greater impact on people's chances of contracting the virus. But, our technical advisory group is there to review evidence and I'm very happy that it should review that evidence as well.
This afternoon, Llywydd, my colleague Vaughan Gething will be answering a question, I understand, on care homes. He'll be able to explain the results of the analysis that we've been carrying out of the four weeks of weekly testing of care home staff—testing that revealed a prevalence of coronavirus amongst care home staff at 0.1 per cent, one person in every thousand. So, he will set out his conclusions as to what that means for testing in the care home sector in the weeks to come this afternoon, and what he will have to say will be the result of engagement directly with Care Forum Wales.
I think the point in that study and, indeed, of other scientists who have vigorously supported the use of face masks, is, as you change the level of restrictions and you therefore lead to more people being in more contact, having a face covering is an additional measure that can then change the number of cases and, indeed, the number of deaths.
Can I just stay with the care sector? If the COVID crisis has taught us anything it's the value of that sector. Care workers have been at the forefront of the battle against the virus, as we know. Their tireless efforts have been hampered at times by the often disjointed dynamic between our health and care sectors and the fact that they're not fairly rewarded for their work. Isn't this the time, First Minister, as we begin to think about a post-COVID Wales, for a national integrated health and care service free at the point of need that will synchronise our most vital public services and give care workers the pay rise and the pay structure that they deserve by moving them onto NHS pay scales? Nothing is stopping this from happening, from political will. Do you share it?
Well, Llywydd, I understand the point that Adam Price made about the study. It's why I said in my original answer that I'd ask for further advice on suggestions that supermarkets had become particularly crowded in some parts of Wales. Because, if that were to be the case, then, the case for the wearing of face coverings is strengthened in those contexts. So, I understand the point that he made there.
Llywydd, we have had a major programme within the Welsh Government of paying for care, drawing on the work of Professor Gerry Holtham and the proposals that he has made. And, sharing many of the points that Adam Price has made this morning about the value of the sector and the need to make sure that the people who work in it are properly regarded and rewarded, we will use that work to take policy forward in Wales. And we do very much need to see, Llywydd, a policy conclusion from the UK Government—the Dilnot review now nearly a decade old and still nothing to show for it—because anything we do in Wales will inevitably be affected by changes in the benefit system, which Dilnot proposed, and would have an impact on Welsh citizens as well. So, a Wales-alone solution will not work, because the intersections with decisions made in non-devolved areas will be material, and we will want to make sure that our actions take full account of changes that are made across the border and we need to know what those changes are going to be.
The leader of the Conservatives, Paul Davies.
Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, from 6 July, households in Wales have been permitted to join together to form an extended support bubble to enable families to reunite, meaning that people can form one extended household and meet indoors. That move was welcomed by many across Wales who, after months of being unable to see their loved ones, were finally able to spend some time with their families and with their friends. Given the pace at which so many changes are now being made, which now result in more and more people interacting with each other in outdoor and indoor spaces, perhaps it's time to consider the creation of further support bubbles, therefore. First Minister, can you tell us what scientific evidence is the Welsh Government using to underpin its policy on social bubbles? And can you also tell us what consideration the Welsh Government has given to further relaxing restrictions on this specific matter?
Llywydd, I believe that the evidence that we are drawing on was set out in a technical advisory group paper that we published. I'll check whether it is published and, if it's not, I'm very happy to share the paper with the leader of the opposition. It's a detailed paper. It draws very much on experience in New Zealand as the basis for the proposals that we are following here in Wales.
We will keep that policy under review during the current three-week cycle, which we're already well into the first week of. We'll use the additional headroom we had during this three weeks to attend to the urgent calls from the tourism industry and from hospitality to reopen those businesses in Wales, and once we've taken those decisions, then the amount of headroom you have got left to do more in the space of extended households, or households coming together in the open air or indoors, is inevitably limited. Provided we are in a position, at the end of this three-week cycle, that coronavirus in Wales is still under control, to the extent that I've already described this morning, there will be new possibilities, and using some of that headroom for further relaxation of the restrictions on family and friends meeting will definitely be part of that consideration.
First Minister, thanks to the people of Wales, significant progress has been made in limiting the spread of the virus in communities across Wales, which, of course, has allowed freedoms to have been relaxed in other areas. For example, a further set of coronavirus restrictions that have also been lifted in Wales, as you've just said, is in relation to self-contained accommodation, such as holiday cottages and caravans, reopening.
Wales's hospitality businesses across the country have also started reopening this week in outdoor areas, and many are looking at ways in which they can continue to comply with Government guidance when they reopen their internal spaces on 3 August. Therefore, given the immediate need to support hospitality businesses here in Wales, can you tell us what specific package of support the Welsh Government will provide in the short term? And will you also be bringing forward a specific strategy for the hospitality sector for both the medium and long terms to protect its sustainability and protect vital jobs? And what domestic tourism strategy is the Welsh Government developing so that we can maximise the amount of visitor spend and help support our tourism and hospitality businesses at this time?
Well, Llywydd, tens of millions of pounds of support has already been provided both to the tourism sector and, separately and additionally, to the hospitality sector here in Wales. That's in addition to all the help that the sector has received from the UK Government through the furlough scheme, which has been very important indeed in both of those industries. And many, many further applications have been made to phase 2 of the economic resilience fund, which closed on Friday of last week, again from those sectors. So, the sectors have had very significant support from the UK Government and from the Welsh Government in recognition of the enormous impact the coronavirus has had on them.
Our immediate strategy has focused very much on getting the sectors reopened and getting them reopened safely, and that remains our focus over the next few weeks, because success needs to be made of these first steps in order that we can build on them further and continue to reopen the sector. And the resources of the Welsh Government, the staffing resources, our ability to engage directly with the sector has been very much focused on that strategy, getting these industries up and working again. Once we manage to do that successfully, then, of course, we will continue to work both with tourism and hospitality, together with them, to shape a future through the rest of this year that builds on whatever success we can achieve and allows them to go on earning a living in the way that they do, providing employment in the way that they do, and contributing into the Welsh economy in a very significant way.
First Minister, the gradual reopening of the hospitality sector in Wales provides further opportunities for people to socially interact with members from outside their households. I recently met with local hospitality businesses to discuss the ongoing impact of COVID-19 and the Welsh Government's regulations, and the message was clear: this year, most hospitality businesses are simply focusing on survival. Therefore, as restrictions continue to ease, it'll be crucial that we maximise the amount of spend locally in Wales, and I sincerely hope that the Welsh Government is refocusing its procurement practices to help our businesses recover. Wales's small and medium businesses need support now more than ever, and the Welsh Government must use any and all levers at its disposal to support businesses and champion local products and services. Therefore, First Minister, what new action is the Welsh Government taking in terms of its procurement practices to support Welsh businesses and help them recover? Could you also tell us what campaigning the Welsh Government is doing to encourage people to spend locally and support Welsh businesses to help rejuvenate local communities across the country? And, given the measures introduced by other countries across the world to support businesses, what consideration has the Welsh Government given to bringing forward financial incentives, such as business rate relief, to support Welsh businesses to recover from this pandemic?
Well, Llywydd, business rate relief is practically universal in these sectors at 100 per cent for the rest of this financial year, so there's nothing further we can do there, because they're not paying any business rates at all.
In terms of local spend and procurement, then the outstanding area in which we have been able to achieve new ground in this context is in personal protective equipment, where many Welsh businesses have answered the call that we made to help us to secure the necessary supplies of PPE for our health and social care sector—250 million items now issued, Llywydd, a million items being issued every day, 91 million items to social care alone. We wouldn't have been able to do that if we hadn't used our procurement in order to encourage Welsh businesses to convert what they were previously doing into the production of face masks, fluid-resistant gowns and other things that are now being supplied not just to Wales, but to other parts of the United Kingdom as well. I think that is a very good example of how, in a crisis, people can act really quickly, incredibly positively. We've been so grateful for what businesses in Wales have done in this area, and we want to do more of that, of course.
In terms of local spend, then the fact that our 'stay local' message in Wales wasn't lifted until just about a week or so ago means that people have indeed been spending locally in Wales during this pandemic, because that's where their lives have been led. I know that that, by itself, has managed to sustain a number of businesses who, without that local support, would not have been able to survive. I agree with what Paul Davies said: many businesses are indeed in survival mode at the moment. And our aim is to help them to survive so that when the better days come, they will be there to continue their previous success. But that survival has only been possible, in many contexts, because people have stayed local, because they have spent local and they've supported those local businesses.
Leader of the Brexit Party, Mark Reckless.
First Minister, you've overseen a significantly higher COVID-19 infection rate in Wales than in the rest of the United Kingdom, as well as a worse economic situation. Despite this, you've found time to lambast the UK Government over its Brexit responsibilities, twice using the crisis to demand they extend the transition period, as you've once again tried to block Brexit. Now, we see your Minister for COVID economic recovery turn his focus to attacking the UK Government over the Gender Recognition Act 2004. He attacks it for failing formally to responding to a Gender Recognition Act consultation, and, we're told, for
'repeatedly delaying publication of the review.'
Is it possible that the UK Government has had other priorities?
Llywydd, I'll try and pick something out of the question, if I can. Brexit certainly hasn't gone away, and Brexit is going to happen. All we are focused on is trying to help it to happen in a way that does not add a further layer of economic distress on companies in Wales who are already struggling, as Paul Davies said, to deal with the consequences of a global pandemic. That's all we're asking: simply that a disaster that nobody could have prevented is not made even worse by a disaster that is eminently preventable by the simple and straightforward course of action of asking for a short extension to the transition period to take account of the fact that, as the Member just said, people have been very busy doing other things. If that applies to the Gender Recognition Act, then surely it applies even more to a sensible approach to Brexit.
As far as the Gender Recognition Act review is concerned, all we're asking the UK Government to do is to do what they've said they would do. Nothing else. They have carried out the review, they have promised to publish it, they have not done so. All we're asking is that they do what they said they would.
In many areas, First Minister, you've understandably made commitments as a Government that it has not been possible to carry through or that have had to be delayed because of the COVID crisis. I merely suggest that you allow and accept that similar pressures affect the UK Government. Wales voted for Brexit. You put forward your proposals on the area at the general election, and there's now a Conservative Government of a majority of 80. Surely you should accept that democratic decision.
We have certain areas that are devolved to Wales, and certain areas that are reserved. But again and again we see the Welsh Government failing to respect that settlement, failing to respect reserved powers. On gender recognition, I believe there are some difficult and challenging issues around balancing rights, but surely the way to deal with it for a reserved issue is to work within the framework set by UK Government, not declare a unilateral declaration of independence—instead, focus on the devolved powers you have, and making them work properly.
My concern with this, as so many others, is you lambast the UK Government over its exercise of reserved powers, yet complain when anyone criticises you in any way about what you do in a devolved context. You're always demanding more and more devolved powers, yet substantial numbers of people in Wales voted against devolution. Last time, those who supported it did so on the basis of an assurance on the ballot paper that
'the Assembly cannot make laws on…tax…whatever the result of this vote.'
Yet you, in cahoots with the Conservatives, broke that promise, and income tax powers were devolved without the promised further referendum. Isn't that why devolution in Wales is not settled, along with your refusal to respect reserved powers, and the fact that however much is devolved, it is never enough for politicians here?
Llywydd, as I recall—and I may be wrong, because it's not always easy to keep up—the Member was a Conservative MP at the time that the Conservative Party broke what it had promised people in Wales about a referendum. He was a Conservative MP, he voted for the promise that was broken, and then he comes here to complain about it. There isn't a shred of credibility in what the Member has to say. Llywydd, I believe in assertive devolution, and that's the policy that this Government will pursue.
Question 3, Carwyn Jones. Question 3, Carwyn Jones.
Wake up.
I thought I heard 'Caroline Jones'. Forgive me, Llywydd.