2. Will the Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's approach to media policy and support for the media industry following the recent series of redundancies? TQ476

You need to—. We still can't hear you, Minister.

We still can't—. There we are. We can hear you—

There we are. I did unmute myself earlier, but I was re-muted. Diolch yn fawr. 

Okay. We can hear you clearly now. 

You can hear me clearly now. Right. Thank you very much to Alun Davies for that question. The media sector is crucial to democracy in any society and the Welsh Government's media policy includes providing support for a diversity of organisations within the media to provide consistent information for citizens, and we deeply regret all of the job losses that may occur in the media sector in Wales in various aspects of the sector over the next few months.

Thank you for that. I think there will be broad agreement across all sides of the Chamber that a free and robust press and media is critical to any country and any democracy—a media that can inform, that can scrutinise, can hold politicians on all sides to account, create a platform for us to talk together as a nation, to reflect our needs as a country, and to share our culture and our histories together. But we've seen our ability to do this in Wales reducing over many years and particularly over the last few weeks. We've seen how Reach plc is absorbing too many Welsh jobs and editorial creation and editorial decisions into English parts of the system, where there is no knowledge of our needs and no understanding of our democracy. We've seen the same thing happen with Newsquest, and, Presiding Officer, as I rise to speak today, we're hearing of over 500 jobs going within the BBC and we know that that will have an impact on the BBC in Wales. I would argue there has been no effective regulation of public service broadcasting for some years. Private media corporations exist to create shareholder value and not to serve the people of Wales. So, Minister, is it not time that the Welsh Government, and I would say this Parliament as well, worked together to create new models that will serve the needs and the interests of people in this country—co-operative models, where we put people first rather than simply profit, and where the media serves our country, and not us serving their needs?

Minister, I also believe there is an urgent need to review Ofcom. For many years, Ofcom has failed Wales and has failed to deliver effective regulation of public service broadcasting, and that failure is to be seen on our tv screens and heard from our radios day after day after day. But, at the same time, Minister, there is a requirement, I believe—perhaps through this Parliament rather than through the Welsh Government—for funding to be secured to ensure that there is a basic access to basic information about our democracy and the laws that exist in this country. I'm very concerned and deeply concerned about the people who will be losing their livelihoods over these coming weeks and months. We need to reach out to those people, to those journalists, who sometimes make our lives as uncomfortable as we deserve. But, at all times, we need a vigorous and vital media and press to hold all of us to account and to inform the people of Wales of what is happening in their governance and their laws, but also to enable us to lead a full life as a nation.

Thank you, Alun. I wouldn't disagree with anything that you said in that question. My first response is to say that I have asked officials to ensure that we have an opportunity to meet as a matter of haste with officers from the NUJ in north and south Wales, because the media and the newspapers, such as the Western Mail and the Daily Post—all of these sectors are impacted by what this company is proposing to do. So, I look forward to that meeting, and I will ensure that I bring a report from any such meeting back to the Welsh Parliament, so if there is a desire to have cross-party collaboration to respond to this situation, then I would be highly supportive of that. In the meantime, we do have a contribution that we have made through our individual funds within Government to support journalism, and we will continue to do that. That is at the community level, rather than the national level.

I have a number of interests to declare here. I'm a journalist by profession, I'm a member of the National Union of Journalists, I'm also a Member of our national Parliament who appreciates—like all of us here—the importance of effective scrutiny of our democratic institutions, and I'm a consumer of Welsh media, who knows how vital it is that the story of Wales is seen and read and heard and discussed by the people of Wales. The idea of key pillars of Welsh journalism being merged editorially with other news organisations not based in Wales and not focusing in any way on Wales, should worry all of us. I'm worried, of course, for all the journalists affected, but I'm hugely concerned about what it means for our nation. Will the Minister do all he can to intervene, to push for a rethink by Reach, to push for a focus by them, perhaps not on cutting and running, but on trying to create a sustainable and genuinely pan-Wales news venture within their wider organisation? But also, with the market—if we can call it that—clearly failing here, will he pledge to put in place frameworks and support mechanisms that can help sustain a plurality of independent journalism in Wales?

Thank you very much for that question. The independence of journalism is crucial, first of all, and I've always had some doubts about state or governmental involvement directly in the media, because I don't think that is appropriate. I've had cause to regret on a number of occasions the unwillingness of media to be independent of their funders, and being independent of Government is just as important—if not more important for me—than being independent from Rupert Murdoch, as has been the case in the past. And therefore, I do commit to seek various ways of operating, but we must seek to operate with haste in this area, and that's why I look forward to meeting officials from unions representing journalists, and I also commit to ask for a meeting with the management of Reach, and I do want to ensure that we have at least two daily newspapers in Wales, in north and in south Wales, the Western Mail and the Daily Post, which are at least national Welsh newspapers. 

Jenny Rathbone.

Have you called me?

Yes, I did, Jenny.

Sorry, I didn't hear you; it was rather faint. Thank you very much for calling me. It's good to know that the Deputy Minister is going to be having discussions with the unions on this matter, but I've never been in favour of separate legislation for the media, simply because although local newspapers and local radio and local television have a very important role to play, we still have to rely, for UK-wide news and international news, on many of the organisations that are published elsewhere, which obviously help us stay informed about the world we live in. But it is a sad fact that the UK media is now dominated by two organisations and led by people whose qualification as being fit and proper is definitely questionable. So, it is important to realise that Reach—the organisation that now owns the Western Mail, WalesOnline and the Daily Post, and many other regional outlets—is dominated by Richard Desmond, who is infamous for having made his initial money out of pornography and his far too close a relationship with at least one UK Government Minister. This company had a turnover last year of £150 million and is still expected to have a turnover of a £100 million, yet they are letting people go, cutting jobs even though they've taken the coronavirus job retention scheme. And, of course, the other media mogul dominating our newspaper, television and online subscription services is Rupert Murdoch, and for those who watched the excoriating first part of the documentary on Murdoch last night, we were reminded by one contributor that the top priorities of Mr Murdoch are Rupert Murdoch, Rupert Murdoch, Rupert Murdoch. These two media moguls now dominate the whole of the UK industry, so it's really what can Wales do about this in collaboration with the UK Parliament and the UK Government. It's hard to know how the UK is going to respond given its rather too close relationship with Mr Richard Desmond. And I just wondered what the Deputy Minister thinks we can do to somehow try and rectify the regulation of the media, so that they are not simply churning out nice to have, popular stuff that distracts people from the important task that Government and legislatures ought to be taking account of.

Thank you, Jenny. Media, broadcast media, are not devolved to us, and you know that I've taken the line over the years that I wasn't prepared to see one part of broadcasting of cultural production being devolved when, other areas, it wasn't possible for us to influence them. I think there are two avenues to follow here. There has to be a very serious discussion between the cultural Ministers across the nations of the UK about the way in which media agglomeration has developed even more of a threat to democracy in the last 10 years than even it was before then. So, there is an approach there where we should make the issue of independence of media, plurality of sources, plurality of channels of information a matter of a central concern to us, because as we've all agreed, who've spoken so far in this question, we've all agreed that this is a key thing for democracy.

But, there is also another area of approach, I think, which is equally important, and I'm glad that you mentioned the international connections. We have to understand that we cannot provide properly independent media in Wales on the basis that it is recreated in terms of regional dominance cross border, and this is what is happening in this case. Therefore, we have to respond to this as well. As a Government, we need to have a policy for communications that enables us to have a clear voice—a clear democratic voice—for all of us who participate in the democratic process in Wales.

I thank the Deputy Minister.