1. Statement by the First Minister: Keeping Wales Safe from Coronavirus

– in the Senedd at 1:32 pm on 23 September 2020.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:32, 23 September 2020

(Translated)

The first item on our agenda this afternoon is the statement by the First Minister on the coronavirus. Thank you to the First Minister for agreeing to bring this statement forward, but may I remind everyone that it's the expectation of Senedd Members and myself as the Llywydd that statements of this significance should be made at the earliest possible opportunity to the Senedd, on all occasions? The First Minister to make the statement—Mark Drakeford.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

(Translated)

Llywydd, thank you very much. Today, I will report to the Senedd on the latest developments as we act to control the coronavirus in Wales. Unfortunately, after a long period of gradual decline in the number of cases, we are once again seeing significant increases. We must respond robustly. A number of important measures are in place across Wales already. Over the last week, we have also introduced local restrictions in the areas where the increases in cases are steepest. Yesterday, I announced additional measures at a national level, following discussions with the other UK Governments.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:33, 23 September 2020

Llywydd, I will begin by setting out the latest evidence about the spread of coronavirus in Wales. Fortunately, we are not yet facing the same extensive pressures as some other parts of the UK. This is thanks in part to our more cautious approach and the measures we have kept in place since the outset of the pandemic, such as our advice for people to work from home wherever possible. It is also thanks to the hard work and efforts of everyone in Wales who have followed the rules and helped to control the spread of the virus.

Nevertheless, we have seen a marked increase in cases of coronavirus since the last weeks of August. The overall rate in Wales is now 46.8 cases per 100,000 people. Yet, the picture across Wales is mixed. In parts of south Wales, we have seen large clusters and outbreaks of the virus that have led to community transmission. Llywydd, Members will be aware that we have responded to these sharp increases in Blaenau Gwent, Bridgend, Caerphilly borough, Merthyr Tydfil, Newport and Rhondda Cynon Taf by introducing local restrictions over the course of the last fortnight. The most recent of these came into force last night, as the health Minister set out in his statement to Members yesterday. But in other parts of Wales, in the west and in parts of north Wales, for example, the rates continue to be much lower.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:35, 23 September 2020

It is sad to report, Llywydd, that we are, once again, however, seeing people admitted to hospital, requiring treatment for the serious effects of coronavirus, and particularly sadly, in the last week, we have once again seen people dying from this disease. Now is the time to take some concerted further action to try to prevent coronavirus regaining a foothold in our local communities, towns and cities.

Yesterday, I discussed a series of proposals for co-ordinated action across the UK with the First Ministers of Scotland and Northern Ireland and the Prime Minister. Many of the proposals talked about there are already in place in Wales. We have taken a different approach that is suitable to our needs and circumstances. We have been more cautious in relaxing restrictions, we have lifted restrictions step by step and we have kept some advice in place throughout the pandemic—actions and advice that other parts of the UK are now returning to adopt. 

We have all done so much already, but if we are to continue making a positive difference to this virus, all Welsh citizens need to go on following that approach. It means working from home, wherever possible—a message that is as relevant to employers as it is for workers. We must all follow the rules about meeting indoors. If you are living in an area already under local restrictions, you can only meet people who you do not live with outdoors for the time being. In other parts of Wales, up to six people can meet indoors, provided they all come from one extended household, and children under 11 do not count towards that six here in Wales.

It's now a requirement that we must wear face coverings on public transport, in shops, and in other indoor public places. And I am asking people in Wales to think carefully about where we go and who we meet, because the more places we go to and the more people we come in contact with, the greater the chances we have of catching coronavirus and spreading it to others. 

Llywydd, to help strengthen our response to coronavirus and prevent a fresh crisis in Wales, we are introducing some new measures, which will apply on a national basis, including in those areas that are subject to local restrictions. To assist people who are asked to self-isolate, we will provide a £500 payment to support people on low incomes, and we will make a change to Welsh law to stop employers from making it difficult for employees to self-isolate when they need to do so.

And alongside other UK nations, we will introduce some targeted action in the hospitality sector. The great majority of hospitality businesses have made changes to their premises and introduced new protocols to protect customers and staff. And I am immensely grateful for all the efforts that they have made to comply with the legal requirements we have here in Wales. Unfortunately, we have seen some isolated examples of poor practice, and I am very glad to see local authorities taking enforcement action where there have been breaches of the regulations. We're now asking the hospitality sector to go further. From tomorrow, at 6 p.m., hospitality businesses in Wales, including pubs, cafes, restaurants and casinos, will have to stop selling alcohol at 10 p.m. They will also have to provide table service only. Off-licences, including supermarkets, will also have to stop selling alcohol at 10 o'clock in the evening. 

Llywydd, I also want to use this opportunity to update Members about a meeting I held yesterday with the leaders of the local authorities across south Wales, together with the NHS, police, and police and crime commissioners. We discussed the local restrictions already in place, their impact on neighbouring authorities and whether those local restrictions should be extended to other local council areas. We agreed that we continue to need to be able to act swiftly and to take preventative action where possible, but also that this has to be proportionate to the risk. We should only put new restrictions on people's lives and livelihoods where it is proportionate to do so. Llywydd, there was agreement from all partners that our Welsh partnership approach is fundamental in responding to the virus—educating, informing and then firm enforcement where that is necessary.

2020 has been an incredibly difficult year for so many people in Wales, but we have succeeded the most where we have acted together to protect our families and to look out for our neighbours. We all now need to do that together once again. We need everybody in Wales to follow the rules, to act in accordance with the guidance and to take those steps to protect ourselves and our loved ones. Together, we can still keep Wales safe. Llywydd, diolch yn fawr. 

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 1:41, 23 September 2020

Thank you, First Minister, for your statement this afternoon. I have to say I bitterly regret that you weren't in a position to make this statement yesterday before your tv broadcast, like the other First Ministers and Prime Minister across the UK who spoke to their respective Parliaments. And I hope that you will apologise for that discourtesy, because the BBC were putting up a story at 6 o'clock, despite Members being told at 5.30 p.m., that no decision had been taken by the Government, and told just before 8 o'clock. We need to get back to a parliamentary democracy functioning here, where the Parliament actually debates and discusses these regulations and then votes on them, and I think an apology is needed from you today because yesterday was a deplorable act on your behalf, not coming before the Assembly and addressing it in a manner that should be fitting of a national Parliament. 

Could I ask you also about the six-month timeline that the Prime Minister and the First Ministers of Scotland and Northern Ireland have talked about? Is that a timeline for these restrictions, and a look forward as to when we might see some respite from the virus that you subscribe to and that other leaders in other parts of the United Kingdom signed up to, or do you have a different view?

Could I also ask why it is the case that you haven't resumed shielding, given the increased incidence of the virus in certain parts of Wales, and what measures have been put in place to protect care homes, given the increased prevalence of the virus?

I'd also like to try and understand the science behind the 10 o'clock cut-off time for serving alcohol within licensed premises as opposed to closing licensed premises at 10 o'clock. This, obviously, is different to other parts of the United Kingdom, and there's nothing stopping someone at two minutes to 10 ordering a large round of drinks and staying within a licensed premises to consume those drinks. So, I'd like to understand the science and the advice that you've received about that difference in the interpretation of the 10 p.m. cut-off here in Wales.

Also, could you confirm whether any additional powers or regs were required from the all-agency meeting that you chaired yesterday from partner organisations that you're working with from across Wales? And, importantly, could you reaffirm that the NHS is very much open here in Wales for business, and it is imperative that people, when they need to seek additional help and support from the NHS, do interact with it, and that, ultimately, we should be moving to COVID-lite hospitals so that procedures can begin in real volume and so we can start addressing some of the horrendous waiting times we've had build up over the summer months? Earlier in the week, I touched on the point that a 60 per cent decline in procedures had occurred over the six months since the first national lockdown, and I hope you will agree with me it's vitally important that we start addressing some of the concerns people have about access and services within the Welsh NHS.

And my last point to you, First Minister, is that with the return of students to universities, FE colleges and other facilities across Wales, it is vital that the mental health of students is guarded by universities and protected, because many young people will be leaving home for the first time in what is normally a celebratory mood and something of a great adventure, but, with many of the regulations, there is a real risk of isolation on campus happening if, obviously, support is not put in place. And I'd be pleased to try and understand what engagement the sector is having with the Welsh Government to make sure that students do not fall foul of some of these regulations that are put in place to protect them and also the host communities that the universities are located in. Thank you, First Minister.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:45, 23 September 2020

Llywydd, Andrew R.T. Davies very fairly put the point to me yesterday about making a statement to the Senedd as soon as I was able to do so. I said in my answer to him then that I could not guarantee that all the necessary decisions would have been made in time to make such a statement while the Senedd was still in session yesterday. 

The decisions we are making all the time in the Welsh Government are fundamentally important decisions that have an impact on the lives of so many of our fellow citizens. Those decisions were still being made well into the evening yesterday. I don't make an apology for coming in front of the Senedd at 1.30 p.m. today, because that is the earliest moment at which I am able to report to you on decisions that were being made yesterday, and being made in consultation with our partners and with all the seriousness that Senedd Members would expect us to apply to these very difficult and challenging times. 

Having said that, I'm very happy to reply to the other points that Andrew R.T. Davies has made this afternoon. We review our regulations every three weeks. That's not the case in all other parts of the United Kingdom. That means we are able to act swiftly and flexibly to changing circumstances. While I am fearful that a number of the national measures we have had to put in place will last for some weeks or maybe even months, I don't want to put an artificial deadline on for how long they will last, because we will review them every three weeks and we will report every three weeks, both to the Welsh public and to the Senedd, on the extent to which they are still necessary. And if we were in the fortunate position of being able to lift those restrictions more quickly than six months, that is what I would wish to see, and that is the way we have approached this matter throughout the crisis and that's how I intend to continue to navigate through these difficult times.

On the shielding population, there was no discussion at the COBRA meeting yesterday—no fresh advice to any of the Governments of the UK about returning to shielding. Shielding is a course of action that brings harms as well as protections. We know that many of those people who we asked to self-isolate in that way suffered from isolation and from an impact on their mental health and well-being. I know that the Chief Medical Officer for Wales is considering writing again to all the people who continue to be on our shielding list in Wales, updating them on the current position, providing them with further advice. But a blanket return to the position we had earlier in the year is not under consideration at this point in any part of the United Kingdom as far as I am aware. We will keep that too under very careful review.

As for the 10 o'clock point, I was influenced in the discussions, which, as I say, went on well into the evening, by information I was receiving from the hospitality sector, particularly those restaurants that have worked hard to put a business model in place in Wales in which they are able to have two groups of people come into a restaurant in an evening: a first group at 7 o'clock in the evening, a break for necessary cleaning and coronavirus protections to take place, and then a further set of people who come to the restaurant at between 8.30 p.m. and 9 o'clock in the evening. We could have had an approach in Wales where, at 10 o'clock, all those people were required to leave and stand on the pavement. I think that would have caused real damage to that business model that people have worked so hard to put in place.

And every time we make these decisions, we are balancing the needs of people in business and in employment with the need to protect public health. I think the sector is very used to not allowing people to act irresponsibly in the few minutes leading up to a 10 o'clock closure. Our system will allow people to drink up, to eat up, to bring their evening to an orderly close and then make their way home. That is the way the vast majority of people who go out for an evening here in Wales behave already. I didn't want to make their lives more difficult while we continue to bear down on that minority of people in Wales who have, as the evening gets later, found themselves consuming alcohol to an extent that they can no longer remember where they have been or who they have met with, and who, in the process, cause a wholly disproportionate impact on others.

In our meeting last evening, of course we talked about whether a regional approach was now necessary in Wales. It was a very useful meeting; I was very grateful to all the agencies who took time to attend. As I said in my statement, Llywydd, the balance of opinion was that we've not yet reached that point, that there are still local measures in the hands of those local authorities that they are able to take alongside the new national measures that I outlined in my statement to Members. But the emphasis was also on the need for us to remain right on top of the figures, acting swiftly if we need to, and, if further action is required to protect public health, we will not hesitate to do so. 

Let me reinforce the important points that Andrew R.T. Davies made about the NHS remaining open for business. Such hard work has gone on in the NHS to create COVID-secure areas, to put new protections in place so that people who need treatment for other conditions can feel confident in coming forward for them, and that is very much the message from the NHS in Wales. If you need treatment, please be sure the NHS is still there for you in Wales. 

Finally, to Andrew R.T. Davies's point about students, he's absolutely right: at the age of 18, people going away to university, it is a great adventure in their lives. Sadly, this year, that adventure will be very different. We work really closely with all the higher education institutions here in Wales to make sure that those students coming from other parts of the United Kingdom and from overseas will still have as good an experience as we can possibly provide for them, whilst still needing them too to play their part in keeping themselves safe and not posing risks unnecessarily to other people in the localities that they will now be resident in, and will inevitably have anxieties of their own about what the future might hold. 

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 1:53, 23 September 2020

I welcome this opportunity to discuss the Wales-wide measures announced yesterday by the First Minister. However, I also want to place on record how unacceptable it is that we weren't afforded this opportunity yesterday. The Senedd has been sidelined time and time again in favour of government by press briefing. It wasn't the case, as you were told, Llywydd, that we couldn't debate this yesterday evening as the First Minister had not yet decided, because, literally within minutes of leaving the Chamber after close of proceedings, I was told in detail by the BBC what the Government had decided. As well as being disrespectful to you, Llywydd, it undermines this institution and our roles as elected Members, it prevents proper democratic scrutiny and it's corrosive of trust. And if the First Minister wants to contradict me, perhaps he can tell us when he recorded the pre-recorded message then later relayed to the nation. 

In turning to the content of the announcement, I wholeheartedly agree with the First Minister when he says there's a very real possibility that we all have to take seriously that Wales could see the virus regain a foothold in our communities. It seems to us, however, that in the announcement last night, at least, the Government is seemingly at odds with the advice given to Ministers by the technical advisory cell, who state in their latest report published yesterday that an earlier and more comprehensive response can prevent extended lockdowns. And the evidence before us, the reason that we're having this statement, suggests that the response to date has neither been early nor comprehensive. As Wales's former chief medical officer says today, the rising wave of cases in Wales suggests that the response in Wales may not have been cautious enough. You had a traffic-light system, First Minister, but it looks like the lights went out. There was no mention of that traffic-light system nor the road map in yesterday's statement. And if we are to take Dame Deirdre Hine's critique seriously, as we surely should, we cannot halfheartedly address a full-on COVID resurgence in many of our communities, neither can we have a one-size-fits-all approach, as it fails to take into account the divergent COVID map of Wales, as you have said. 

Where special measures are required, they need to create a difference, not a headline. The 10 p.m. closing time for pubs and restaurants introduced in Antwerp to contain a steady rise in coronavirus cases led to a sustained decrease in August, but it was introduced alongside a complete curfew, a night-time lockdown, effectively, from 11 p.m. onwards. What is the evidence that the measure announced last night on a Wales-wide basis is going to have the impact that you desire? Where we have local restrictions in place in Wales, we should surely be going further—much further—by introducing the temporary, or at least earlier, closure of pubs and clubs, with accompanying sector-specific support. And in these areas, the selling of alcohol at off-licences should be restricted much earlier, to 6 p.m. or 7 p.m., which is the latest that alcohol can be bought at off-licences in Sweden. 

The guidance on travel at the moment is neither clear nor consistent. On the Today programme this morning, you said that you were not stopping people from going on holiday, however the overarching appeal is for people not to make non-essential journeys. How are they defined? Can people visit family, drive to a beauty spot, to the pub, or jump in the car and play a round of golf? It's my birthday today, First Minister, and I was planning on going with my partner to a local restaurant—should I now cancel? These are the questions that people are asking themselves across Wales. Clearly, it makes sense to stop travel from high-risk areas, but that has to include areas not in Wales. You can't go to Tenby from Blaenau Gwent, but you can from Bolton. 

Now, a national lockdown is something we should all want to avoid. If there is a window, we must seize it now without delay and with rigorous, targeted action, backed by a comprehensive communications strategy, which should involve bringing back daily news conferences. Ministers should adopt the clear but adaptable Irish approach, consisting of five levels applied locally. It's time to turn that traffic-light system back on, First Minister, before we find the whole of Wales flashing red once more. 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:58, 23 September 2020

Well, Llywydd, I'll see if there's anything in what the Member has said to which I can make a positive response. I entirely refute any disrespect. This Government has answered questions on the floor of the Senedd right throughout the coronavirus crisis, including right through our recess period. We have been more available to this Senedd than any other Parliament in the United Kingdom has been able to question Ministers that are responsible to those different democratic forums. We were making decisions here, as I said, well into last evening. I am not responsible for the time that the BBC requires material to be supplied to them; that's not a decision that I make, it's a decision that broadcasters make because of their scheduling obligations, and we pushed that to the very limit in order to try to make decisions in the way that I think they need to be made in Wales. And I'm very pleased to be here this afternoon, at the earliest opportunity, answering Members' questions. 

For the rest of Adam Price's contribution, I'm not sure exactly what I can make of it, Llywydd. He asked me to follow the advice of a chief medical officer who was a chief medical officer 20 years ago when I have a chief medical officer here today whose advice I am able to take and do my best to follow.

He complains about people hearing things in news conferences rather than in the Senedd, and then urges me to reinstate news conferences on every day of the week. He talks about one size not fitting all, and then urges me to go much further in restricting the freedoms available to people in their daily lives in Wales. Well, I don't agree with him. I think he is not compliant with the obligation that we have under the regulations in Wales to be proportionate in every action we take, to weigh up the public health risk, and then to take measures that we think are commensurate with that risk. It's why we will have an approach in Wales that remains cautious. How many times on the floor of the Senedd have I been urged by Members not to be so cautious, not to lag behind—as people have put it to me—when other parts of the United Kingdom have gone further, including from the leader of Plaid Cymru himself when he was pointing to Scotland as an example? Our careful, cautious approach has stood us in good stead. We will go on being proportionate as much as we can in the decisions that we make.

The Irish model, which the Member referred to, amongst his many other references to places for which I have no responsibility whatsoever, in Antwerp and Sweden and other parts of his international travel prospectus—. In Ireland, they've had to review their model so often that it is very difficult, I think, for people to keep up with the changes that are being made. We are trying, for simplicity's sake and to enable people in Wales to have a fighting chance of understanding the rules that we are asking them to abide by, to make those changes as seldom as possible. That is the course of action that we continue to follow here in Wales, and the announcements made and reported to the Senedd today are consistent with that approach.

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative 2:02, 23 September 2020

First Minister, Andrew R.T. Davies, very generously I thought, said he bitterly regretted that you weren't in a position to make the announcement to the Senedd yesterday. Isn't the reality, as described by Adam Price, that you preferred not to? You preferred instead to give that pre-recorded interview, saying pretty much what you've just said now, pretty much what you could have said to the Senedd yesterday. You preferred to give that to the BBC because you wanted to make your announcement to the nation through the BBC and not the Senedd. And if that is not the case, can you answer his question as to what time you sent that pre-recorded video of your speech to the BBC?

Now, you don't want to pick up on the six-month projection that I think has been given by the UK Government for England, and isn't that because these restrictions are pretty much indefinite? Is your strategy not to continue keeping the economy—and society to greater or lesser extent—locked down indefinitely, suppressing the virus, ostensibly, completely different from what we were told when we first went into lockdown, that it was to protect capacity in the NHS? Are you not just going to continue that until there is either a vaccine—if it works, if it's reliable—or the supposed moonshot daily testing at a cost of £100 billion projected? Isn't the reality that the costs of what you have done are greater than what you have been trying to achieve through them? We've heard from Andrew R.T. Davies about a 62 per cent fall in operations in Wales. We've seen 16,000 fewer cancer referrals. We've seen on England and Wales data for recent weeks many more people committing suicide than die of COVID. How long is this going to continue? You can't give us an answer for that. And you say you want to rely on people's judgment, you want people to be responsible, but actually then you tell them with very varying—. You criticise Ireland for varying it so that people can't keep up, what on earth do you think's been happening here with the huge numbers of regulations and varying and often contradictory guidance, plus also the often very marginal differences from England, when communications would have been much easier if there had been a consistent approach? So, there is a conflict between that and saying, actually, you want people to be responsible. How can people be responsible when what they have to do is comply with a vast range of stuff that's very, very difficult to keep up with, even for those who concentrate hard on that?

And finally from me on shielding, you say that the CMO may be writing to people again. It's not clear what he's going to be saying to them, but the reality is that he told them to continue shielding until 16 August and the prevalence of the virus is surely now significantly higher than it was then. I think you said that letter is a few weeks' warning for people that carried on shielding until 16 August, and the reason it's very difficult for people to shield again now is because they were kept shielding for several weeks when the prevalence of the virus was low, and much lower than it is now. So, wouldn't it be more sensible for those people involved to make their own judgment as to risks and consider whether they should shield for themselves?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:06, 23 September 2020

Llywydd, the Prime Minister asked the BBC yesterday for time to make an address to the nation given the position that we faced. The BBC suggested that the leader of the Government here in Wales should make a similar address to people in Wales. I think that is a tribute to the Senedd and to devolution: the fact that the BBC thought that here in Wales, with a Government of our own, people in Wales would want to hear from the leader of the Government. And far from it being a competition between the Senedd and other forms of letting our fellow citizens know of changes, I genuinely think Members should regard it as a sign of the way in which devolution, the work of the Senedd, the fact that we have our own democracy here in Wales, has taken root here in Wales, that the BBC thought that was the right thing to do. I have come here to answer your questions as soon as I have been able to do so and I see nothing at all that I have to apologise for in that.

The Member gets it so wrong in relation to this issue of six months. The reason I don't say six months is because I want to review these measures every three weeks, and if it is possible to lift them sooner, then that's what I want to do. The truth is so much the opposite of what he implies: I want to lift restrictions on people's lives as soon as we can safely do it, and I don't want to say to people that that could be six months away when if between the efforts we all can make together it would be possible to do that sooner. That is my ambition and it has been all the way through. I am really anxious every time we make a decision to restrict people's freedoms, and we do it simply because of the extraordinary times we live in and the risks that are posed to others. The sooner we can restore those freedoms to people, the better I will think that will be. That's the strategy I'm following and it's really not at all what the Member implied.

In a way that I don't think he seems able to recognise, his final two questions to me pointed in completely opposite directions. He started from a premise that I would agree with: there is more than one harm from coronavirus and not presenting yourself for investigations or treatment in the NHS for non-COVID purposes has been one of the harms that coronavirus has caused. As I said in my answer to Andrew R.T. Davies, the NHS in Wales is open for people and I hope very much that they will make use of it. Having recognised that there is more than one harm, he then wanted me to reimpose on shielded people a blanket set of restrictions that we know have come with harms to people as well as the protections that those restrictions offered. So, we have put advice to shielded people in line with the advice that we have had from our chief medical officer and all the other chief medical officers across the United Kingdom.

It still is our advice to shielded people that they should take particular care, that they should ask themselves even more searching questions about who they meet with and where they go, but it is not, we think, proportionate now to say to them that they should not leave their homes for any exercise, and if they felt confident in doing it, they could go, for example, to collect their own prescriptions, and that's because we're trying to balance the harms. The harms that come from people with vulnerable health conditions being exposed to coronavirus are very real. The harms that come from saying to people that they should never leave their homes are real as well, in the impact on those people's sense of well-being and isolation. The advice we're giving to shielded people, and which the chief medical officer may well wish to reiterate and update in any fresh letter he may send, is designed to hold that in balance, just as—in the way that I agree with the Member—our advice to people about using the NHS must be in balance as well.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 2:11, 23 September 2020

Thank you very much, and I very much welcome the First Minister coming here this afternoon to make this statement. First Minister, in Blaenau Gwent, people understand and support the action that the Welsh Government is proposing, but they do clearly have some questions. Perhaps first amongst those questions is on the travel restrictions, and I'd be grateful if you could explain why you are restricting travel from the borough to other parts of Wales, and to other localities. That would be very useful for us.

We've also discussed testing on a number of occasions in this Senedd in recent weeks and months, and the health Minister was very clear yesterday that further resources will be put into testing at this time. So, I'd be grateful if you could outline how you see mobile units or walk-in testing facilities being developed in areas where there are these additional restrictions.

And you referred to enforcement in your statement: it is crucially important that these restrictions are enforced properly. Is it possible to have greater resources from Welsh Government to enable and to help local government with enforcement, so that we can ensure that everybody plays fair and that there is a level playing field here? Because I think that people have had six months now of restrictions placed upon their lives, and they want to feel that everybody is playing their part.

And finally, First Minister, people would like to know when you intend to review these restrictions and review these regulations, so that people can look forward to understanding the structure in which these regulations are operating. Thank you.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:12, 23 September 2020

Llywydd, can I thank Alun Davies for all those very pertinent questions, and thank the population that he represents here in the Senedd for their commitment to playing their part in the efforts that are needed to bear down on this virus and to be able to bring it back under control in south-east Wales again? Blaenau Gwent is, Llywydd—as Members will know—one of the areas that are to be subject to more extensive restrictions in people's lives than the rest of Wales, and that's a real ask of people, and I don't underestimate that at all. The rules require people not to enter or to leave one of those county borough areas, and that is precisely in order to try to contain the spread of this virus. The virus spreads when people meet and when people travel, and our efforts are directed at confining coronavirus to as small a geographical area as we can manage, and that very significant ask of people in those areas to restrict their travel other than for specifically identified purposes is part of the contribution we're asking them to make.

I saw figures yesterday, Llywydd, that show that in the first week of restrictions in Caerphilly, there had been an 8 per cent fall in journeys made to and from that county borough, and that demonstrates the way in which people are willing to play their part, and I'm sure that people in Blaenau Gwent will be wanting and willing to do that, too.

On testing, Members will have heard from the health Minister yesterday about the steps we are taking to increase capacity within the Welsh system to switch some testing into the Welsh system, to deploy mobile units in those places where they are most needed, to see whether we can bring further mobile capacity into Wales in order to be able to carry out tests where they are most urgently needed. 

Llywydd, can I absolutely agree with Alun Davies about the issue of enforcement? It is a matter, as he said, of fair play. Most people in Wales already comply with the rules and the guidance, and do so scrupulously. Where there are people who don't understand the rules or are struggling to follow them, then I entirely endorse the approach that our police forces and local authorities have taken of education, information and persuasion as the first ports of call. But, for those people who knowingly, persistently and deliberately break the rules that everybody else are following, then I'm afraid it is right, on behalf of everybody else who are following the rules, that proper enforcement action is taken. We discussed yesterday, with our local authority colleagues, ways in which we can help them in resource terms to step up enforcement. I made it clear once again to our police colleagues that if there are further things we can do to assist them in that difficult work, that is what we will do. It is a last resort not a first resort for us in Wales to take that action, but where that action is needed, it will be taken.

And finally, to answer the question about the timetable, the local lockdown restrictions will be reviewed every two weeks in those areas; the restrictions across the whole of Wales—the national picture—will continue to be reviewed on a three-week cycle here in Wales.

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative 2:16, 23 September 2020

Can I thank you for your statement, First Minister? It's coming at a very worrying time for many people with the recent rise in positive case numbers. I am a little concerned, though, at some of the detail in your statement. You refer to the current rate of positive infections per 100,000 population as being 46.8 cases in your statement, yet the data published today by Public Health Wales, on their publicly available Tableau page, is that the infection rate is just 32.1 cases per 100,000. Can I ask why there is this data discrepancy, and if it is higher, why that isn't being published in the public domain? I'm sure you'll agree with me that we need to have confidence in these figures if the public are going to be encouraged to work with the public authorities in order to get the desired result of getting these infection rates down.

Can I also ask, on behalf of businesses and residents in my constituency, which is heavily reliant, of course, on tourism as part of the economy, what message you would like to send to potential visitors to our communities? Because you said very clearly in the Senedd yesterday, during First Minister's questions, that you wanted people to check whether their journeys were actually essential journeys. Now, I appreciate and have heard what you've said to other Members of this Chamber, but I think it is very confusing for people that you're saying that people should only take essential journeys, yet we are allowing people, who are potentially coming from high-infection areas from outside of Wales, into some of these communities with many older people. So, what message would you like us to convey to businesses and to visitors? 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:18, 23 September 2020

Llywydd, again, can I thank Darren Millar for those important questions? I agree with his opening remarks that this is a worrying time, and I'm afraid he's right that we should be concerned given the figures that we are seeing.

The figure that I quoted, Llywydd—the 46.8 per cent—is the most recent figure that I have. I am offered management information that is available in advance of the publicly used figures, which have some further testing of them before they are published, and that's because I want to provide Senedd Members with the best and most recent information that I have. In some ways, as I know that Darren Millar will recognise, it is the trend that is the most important, rather than the absolute number, and the trend is upwards here in Wales. Ten days ago, when we took the decision to make face coverings mandatory in shops and enclosed public places, we had just reached 20 per 100,000 in Wales. I'm afraid that, since then, that figure has moved upwards. It is affected by the south-east Wales corner. It's not a reflection on some parts of Wales, but the trend is important to identify.

The issue of tourism is a fraught one. I've discussed this matter directly with the Member on a number of occasions because, as he says, tourism is such an important part of the local economy of the area of Wales that he represents. The good news is that we've had tourists coming to Wales from other parts of the United Kingdom since the first part of July now, and there isn't evidence that that has led to spikes of infection in those parts of Wales that people most often visit. Indeed, the coronavirus continues to be at its lowest ebb in those places that tourists most often visit. Nevertheless, I understand, of course, that local people are anxious when visitors come from other parts—whether it be of Wales or beyond—where rates of coronavirus are elevated. So, our message continues to be at this point: visit Wales safely. If you're coming to Wales, please make sure that you do all of the things that we would expect our fellow citizens to do to keep themselves and other people safe. In that way, people can enjoy Wales and make a contribution to local economies and to jobs without risks being posed.

I asked the Prime Minister yesterday to echo a message about asking people to think carefully about journeys, particularly from those places in England where coronavirus is even further ahead than it is even in south-east Wales. I'm afraid he wasn't willing to do it. My message for people in Wales is that it's not about a rule; it's not about people trying to test the boundaries of what is allowed. That's not the right way to think about this. All I'm asking people in Wales to do is to think carefully about journeys that they may make. If it's possible, for example, to visit a restaurant or to go to a pub close to home, that is more advisable than travelling a distance to do the same thing further away. Those are the questions that I'm asking people in a common-sense way, in making judgments that people are capable of making in their own lives, because the more people we meet and the further we travel, the greater the risk. I think that that's a very simple proposition, and I feel confident that our fellow citizens in Wales are capable of making those judgments in their own lives.

Photo of Lynne Neagle Lynne Neagle Labour 2:23, 23 September 2020

First Minister, the pandemic has taken a toll on everyone's mental health, and many of us have got through it because cases were coming down, and we could see a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm deeply worried about the impact of a long and difficult winter on everyone's mental health, particularly those cut off from family and friends' support, and our NHS and social care staff.

You said again today that there is more than one harm from coronavirus. What steps will you take to mitigate the harms this winter on everybody's mental health, and what assurances can you give that everybody who needs support from mental health services, whether young people or adults, will get that support? We know that that didn't happen in the first phase of this pandemic.

Can I also ask about people living with dementia? The terrible figures of excess deaths of those living with dementia have laid bare the impact of loneliness and isolation in the first part of this pandemic. I believe that there needs to be a clear plan to mitigate the impact of the next phase of the pandemic on people living with dementia. What steps will you take to introduce one? Thank you.  

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:24, 23 September 2020

Llywydd, I thank Lynne Neagle for those important points, which she raises very regularly on the floor of the Senedd to make sure that none of us forget about that very important dimension. She will know that we are already taking measures. Our decision not to restrict people's ability to meet in the outdoors is part of our determination to continue to use the weeks that are left to us when it is possible to do so in our climate so that people are able to get the mental health benefits of doing so. I was very glad indeed last week, given the fantastic weather we had, that Welsh people were not in the position that people are across our border, where there are significant restrictions on the ability of people to take advantage of the outdoors. She will know as well that our rule of six continues, outside the local lockdown areas, to allow six people from our extended household to meet together. Again, it's a powerful motivation in coming to that decision not to restrict those households further for the mental health and well-being needs of that extended household. Despite the real anxieties that we have, I hope we will be able to sustain that position for longer here in Wales.

The impact of coronavirus on the mental health of young people has been particularly in our thoughts as universities resume here in Wales, as Andrew R.T. Davies said in his opening question. We have worked very hard with the higher education sector here in Wales and with the National Union of Students, who I must say I think have been fantastically constructive contributors to making sure that the welfare and well-being of students who are coming back to Wales or coming to Wales to study is properly safeguarded, to make sure that those services are in place to the maximum extent that we can make them. When I visited a school here in Cardiff last week it was heartening to hear from staff and students of the way that the extra investment in counselling services in our schools is making that more available to students in our schools this term than at any earlier point in the history of our school counselling service.

Finally, to turn to Lynne Neagle's issue of dementia—an enormously challenging issue—I'm afraid there really are no straightforward or simple answers that are available to us. We struggle all the time with the issue of visits to care homes, knowing how important they are to people with dementia particularly, but knowing how vulnerable those people are to the virus being brought into an environment that in other ways has been so very carefully guarded to protect people's physical health. So, what we are doing is working closely with the third sector, with our partners in local authorities, and those who represent the views of families and people who have dementia, to put in the best balance we can manage between protecting those people's physical health and diluting the impact of the necessary restrictions on the mental health and well-being of that population. I wish there was a straightforward answer to it, but I know there's not. It's a matter of constant dialogue and trying to come to the best possible accommodations we can between some powerfully conflicting obligations that we have to that population.

Photo of Mick Antoniw Mick Antoniw Labour

First Minister, just a couple of points. Firstly, I very much appreciated the address to the nation. I think that was a very important landmark during this pandemic.

I wonder if we could have clearer guidance for the pubs and clubs in our constituencies. Many of them are raising questions. They are very keen to operate within the guidelines and to operate safely for their community. Things like table service, darts, bingo, chair location and so on are important issues to them, and I think anything that gives them greater clarity would be very, very much appreciated. 

Can I ask about the £500? You'll know that when we gave the sum of £500 to care workers we couldn't persuade the UK Government not to deduct tax on it and to make it exempt from impacting on benefits. Will it be completely exempt from any of those? If so, that would at least be a welcome move on this occasion. 

And finally, working from home and workers who have to—what discussions have there been with the trade unions on this? And can you give us a bit more information about the Welsh law that would be introduced that will give protection to those workers who choose to self-isolate? We know from past experience that some have had pressure put on them in those circumstances to come into work. This not only undermines the efforts in respect of tackling the pandemic, but also causes very serious stress and anxiety amongst many of our workers who want to do the right thing. And perhaps you could just clarify the role that the trade unions might have within this as well. Thank you, First Minister.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:30, 23 September 2020

Llywydd, can I thank Mick Antoniw for what he said about the information we were able to broadcast last night, and the importance of that, both to citizens in Wales, but, as I've said, I think marking the significance of devolution in the lives of people here in Wales? His question about details for pubs and clubs points at some of that dilemma that I've answered some questions about this afternoon, about expecting that I could have provided all of that detail, and much more, while the Senedd was still sitting yesterday. We have spent all morning, and will continue to spend more time still, in working with those sectors in order to make sure that we have the answers that are needed by those people in pubs and clubs and restaurants, and in other parts of our economy, who so want to do the right thing. And part of the way we have done it in Wales is to have that social partnership approach, in which we work with people to come to those conclusions and then publish the results. And I don't have, even now, some of the answers to the points that Mick Antoniw has raised. But I give him an assurance that we are continuing to work with the sector to give those people who want to follow the rules, who want to do the right thing, all the help that we are able to provide them.

On the £500, the latest information I saw was that the UK Government did not intend to make that exempt from income tax. I regret that. I think that's another contradictory decision, if it turns out to be true—trying to provide people with an income so that they don't feel under pressure to go into work and then taking money away from them with the other hand. Let's hope that that turns out not to be the final result. We will talk with the UK Government about the best mechanisms. Mick Antoniw will know that we have some advantages in Wales, and we never abandoned the social fund here in the way that it has been so abandoned across our border. We used our discretionary assistance fund, very much in his own constituency, back in February, to provide the £501,000 help that we were able to provide for people who had been flooded. And we will look to see whether the discretionary assistance fund, which, Llywydd, has made over 73,600 emergency coronavirus payments to people in Wales, providing more than £4.6 million in assistance to people during this pandemic, is the best vehicle for getting the £500 as quickly and as unbureaucratically to people as possible.

In terms of working from home, we discussed this this morning in the social partnership council, with both the Wales TUC and individual trade union colleagues in attendance, and their support for that remains very important, and we will work further with them to make sure that those rules are properly understood by members and by employers. Llywydd, let me end by saying that I think the vast majority of employers in Wales have worked very hard to protect their employees, have not wished to put them under pressure to return to work where they could work successfully from home. In other parts of the United Kingdom, there have been examples, for example, where people who have been asked to self-isolate have been made redundant by their employers. The regulations that we will put in place in Wales will prevent that from happening here, because we want to make it clear that it is an obligation for employers and employees to self-isolate when that advice is provided to them. We want to support all those good employers in Wales who already help their workers to do just that, and our regulations, as ever, are designed to support good trade unions and good employers who want to do the right thing. 

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:35, 23 September 2020

(Translated)

I thank the First Minister.