Item 11 is the legislative consent motion on the Agriculture Bill. I call the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs to move the motion. Lesley Griffiths.

Motion NDM7400 Lesley Griffiths

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 29.6 agrees that provisions in the Agriculture Bill in so far as they fall within the legislative competence of the Senedd, should be considered by the UK Parliament.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Chair, for the opportunity to explain the background to this legislative consent motion. First introduced to the UK Parliament on 16 January 2020, the Agriculture Bill makes provision with regard to devolved matters. Provisions relating to Wales are set out in Schedule 5 to the Bill, but also appear throughout the Bill. I recommend Members of the Senedd support a legislative consent motion for the Agriculture Bill.

In deciding whether to recommend legislative consent for this Bill, I have taken into consideration the helpful comments raised by the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee and the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee during their scrutiny. The Agriculture Bill contains provisions enabling the Welsh Ministers to continue to provide financial support to the Welsh agricultural sector through a domestic version of the common agricultural policy's basic payment scheme and rural development payment scheme. I believe it is appropriate for these provisions to be included in the UK Agriculture Bill as the Welsh Ministers will be able to provide the agricultural sector with much needed stability and continuity.

We intend that the powers will be used during transition to a new system of agricultural support, which we propose will be designed around sustainable land management principles. On 31 July, I launched the 'Sustainable Farming and our Land' proposals to continue and simplify agricultural support for farmers and the rural economy consultation. The consultation outlines proposals on how the continuity provisions allowing the delivery of a new domestic basic payment scheme and a rural development payment scheme may be used by Welsh Ministers. It sets out a number of small but impactful changes to their operation during the 2021 scheme year. Consultation on these proposals will conclude on 23 October.

The Agriculture Bill also contains other provisions for ensuring the effective operation of agricultural sectors across the UK. These include provisions for agricultural tenancy reform, the redistribution of the red meat levy, fair dealing and producer organisations, market intervention and marketing standards, data collection and sharing, and the identification and traceability of livestock, fertilisers and organics. The legislative consent motions that set out these provisions have been previously subject to Senedd scrutiny.

The Agriculture Bill provides the Secretary of State with regulation-making provisions to ensure the UK's compliance with the World Trade Organization agreement on agriculture following the UK's departure from the European Union. As I have previously outlined to the Senedd, these are fairly complex provisions over which the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee raised concerns during its scrutiny. I have given careful consideration to these provisions, and the committee's recommendation on them in their report of May 2020. I remain satisfied with the bilateral agreement made between the Welsh Government and the UK Government on the use of these powers. The agreement provides strong mechanisms for Welsh Ministers to express their views and have those views taken into account by Parliament and by the UK Government when making and using regulations in relation to the UK's dealings with the WTO.

In recommendation 16 of their report, the committee sought clarity on whether I believed the Bill should include safeguards to ensure that marketing standards in Wales are not undercut by imports in any future trade arrangements. I wrote to the Secretary of State on 12 June to set out the Welsh Government's position on animal health and welfare and key sanitary and phytosanitary matters in respect of a future trade agreement. Food safety, along with animal health and welfare, are devolved matters, and the Welsh Government's policy is clear: that high food safety, animal welfare, and environmental standards must be maintained in Wales. Although UK Ministers continue to insist they are determined to maintain the current high standards of food safety and animal welfare, they are reluctant to find appropriate legal drafting that would enable them to put such assurances into statute. As a Government, we regret this.

In recommending legislative consent for the Bill, we are acknowledging it is not perfect and not as we would have drafted it. However, the Bill as amended is, on balance, acceptable. I want to assure the Chamber that we intend to vigorously oppose clauses in the internal market Bill that would enable this or any Government in Westminster to fire the starting gun on a race to the bottom of food safety and animal welfare standards.

Over the next few years, we propose the Welsh agricultural sector will transition to a new system of agricultural support. Our proposals are clear: that it is important to transition to such a system sooner rather than later, to address the lack of economic and environmental resilience in the sector, and in order to protect the reputation of the industry. There has been a long passage of time since the original Agriculture Bill was introduced to the UK Parliament in September 2018. Taking this into account, alongside concerns raised by the Senedd during scrutiny, I concluded it was not appropriate to include the new financial assistance powers originally provided for in this Bill. Instead, it is my intention to make appropriate provisions in an agriculture (Wales) Bill. We intend that this Wales Bill will give Welsh Ministers provisions to design and deliver a bespoke system of support for Welsh agriculture, rural industries and communities.

During scrutiny, Senedd committees expressed concerns around the absence of a time-limiting clause in the original Agriculture Bill. To address these concerns, I instructed the UK Government to include a sunset clause on the face of the Bill. This now forms part of the Bill at clause 51, and assures the expiry of provisions in Schedule 5, along with a small number of related provisions, at the end of 2024 in accordance with that provision. By the end of this year, I intend to publish a White Paper that will set out the context for the future of Welsh farming and pave the way for the introduction of the agriculture (Wales) Bill. I move the motion to the Chamber.

Thank you, Minister. I now call the Chair of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee, Mike Hedges.

Thank you, acting Presiding Officer. This debate draws us one step nearer to agreeing transitional arrangements for the agricultural sector in Wales. It has been a long journey. Scrutiny of the UK Agriculture Bill has been a central plank of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee's work on Brexit. Our first report in relation to a UK Agriculture Bill was published back in January 2019. In the last 18 months, we've had the first UK Bill fall due to prorogation, and another introduced in the wake of the UK elections. We have reported on three separate occasions on a UK Agriculture Bill.

Three key issues have dominated our scrutiny of this Bill. Firstly, the use of the consent procedure to legislate on significant policy matters in devolved areas. As a committee, we've always recognised that legislation was necessary to continue to provide financial support to the agriculture sector immediately after Brexit—the last thing anybody would want is to turn the money off. But we have always said that the most appropriate way to legislate on a subject as significant as the long-term future of agriculture in Wales is a Welsh Bill. We have been told again and again by the Welsh Government that this was impossible because of a lack of time.

We have witnessed first-hand the limitations of the consent procedure. There is, more often than not, limited consultation with Welsh stakeholders, limited scrutiny of Welsh provisions—certainly nothing like the Senedd Bill process. We have reported on provisions that have been inserted, only to be taken out at subsequent amending stages. In some cases, whole Schedules have been removed. Even today, the Senedd is being asked to give its consent while the Bill is still in the amending stage in Parliament.

Second, there's been a worrying trend of LCMs including provisions that confer considerable powers on Welsh Ministers while placing very few duties upon them. We have consistently argued that this imbalance will severely limit the Senedd's ability to scrutinise the Welsh Government's support for agriculture at a time when effective scrutiny is vital. 

Third, the Welsh and UK Governments have struggled to develop effective working relationships to deal with the challenge of Brexit. This is something that is understandable; this is something that is new to us all. The structures and frameworks that are necessary to work collaboratively have not been needed before now. We've been consistent in saying that leaving the EU will necessitate new inter-governmental relationships at a UK level. As Governments focus on developing these new inter-governmental relationships, the question for Parliaments in the four constituent nations in the UK is where we sit in this new landscape. Will we simply rubber-stamp consent motions so that Parliament can legislate on our behalf? Will we agree that Parliament can confer powers on Welsh Ministers, bypassing the Senedd altogether? These are key questions.

But moving on and focusing on the positives, the Minister and officials have engaged constructively and positively with the committee throughout this process. In our three reports, we have made many recommendations, and the Minister responded constructively. We've seen the Minister take action as a result of these recommendations. The Welsh provisions in the Bill look very different today than at the start of this process. The Minister has secured the removal of what was then Schedule 3, which gave significant long-term legislative powers to Welsh Ministers. What remains are largely transitional powers that will be supplanted by a future Welsh Bill.

The Minister has committed to publishing a White Paper on agriculture before the end of this Senedd, with the intention of bringing forward a Welsh Bill in the next Senedd. The question for the Senedd is whether the provisions are appropriate to facilitate a smooth transition to any new system of support for agriculture after the UK leaves the EU. The committee has identified many matters of detail in the Bill that were unsatisfactory—some have been addressed, some remain. But I very much welcome that the future of agriculture policy will be determined in Wales by the Senedd, in the form of a Welsh Bill, subject to amendments tabled from Members across this Senedd, and on which Welsh farmers and stakeholders will be consulted extensively. 

Thank you. I call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mick Antoniw.

Thank you, acting Llywydd. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee started considering a UK Agriculture Bill exactly two years ago in September 2018, and Members will know that the first version of the UK Government's Bill fell in 2019, when the UK Parliament was dissolved ahead of the UK general election. We had already produced two strongly worded reports on that version of that Bill in January and June 2019. The present UK Government reintroduced the Agriculture Bill in mid January this year, and we have since seen the Welsh Government bring forward four legislative consent memoranda—No. 3 was laid last Friday, and No. 4 was laid yesterday afternoon, meaning neither have been scrutinised by any Senedd committee. We have, however, again, produced two reports on the No. 1 and No. 2 legislative consent memoranda with significant conclusions and recommendations. 

The UK Agriculture Bill is an important piece of law, and while it is arising as a result of the UK's exit from the EU, it is providing significant powers to the Welsh Ministers in an area of policy that has been devolved to the Senedd for over 20 years. In our January 2019 report, we noted our disappointment that the Minister had appeared to suggest that the LCM process provides Senedd Members with adequate opportunities for the scrutiny of an important area of devolved policy.

It is important to be clear on this point. The scrutiny of an LCM does not give Senedd Members the same rights or opportunities for scrutiny when compared with a Welsh Bill laid before this Senedd. The fact that the Welsh Government laid further supplementary LCMs on Friday and yesterday afternoon that are relevant to today's debate provides a clear example of the limitations placed on scrutiny during the legislative consent process.

The Minister also wrote to our committee yesterday afternoon in relation to the fourth LCM, and she reiterated the importance of the Bill. It is, therefore, disappointing that the Minister's letter also advises that the Welsh Government is still analysing further amendments made at the House of Lords Report Stage, even with this motion being considered today. 

There has been extremely limited time made available to review the fourth LCM, but it would appear that the Bill now provides Welsh Ministers with further powers; it would appear that the Secretary of State has taken an additional concurrent power to make regulations in a devolved area. Proper scrutiny would have allowed us to investigate with the Minister the reasoning for these last-minute changes. Given the importance of the Bill for Welsh farming, this situation is unsatisfactory. 

I'd like to move on to the matter of a Welsh Bill. We have been concerned, as has Mike Hedges and his committee in their report, that the Welsh Government has not introduced its own Bill for scrutiny in the Senedd. The Minister told us and the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee on many occasions that there was insufficient time for such a Bill. However, two years have passed since the original UK Agriculture Bill was introduced to the UK Parliament. We acknowledge that hindsight is very easy and, perhaps, unforgiving, but we should reflect on whether we would have been in a better position if a Welsh Bill had been pursued from the outset.

We do acknowledge that, following concerns we expressed about the legislative approach adopted, a sunset clause has been included in the Bill and powers to permit the Welsh Ministers to operate or transition to new schemes have been removed. Our January 2019 report also highlighted a general concern with the delegated powers contained within the original Bill. It is disappointing that information we requested about delegated powers in our report published in May of this year was not forthcoming in the second LCM laid in June, and that we've had to wait until the third LCM, laid last Friday, for a list of the provisions in the Bill that contain powers for Welsh Ministers to make subordinate legislation. However, I note that the justification for taking each power was not included, as requested.

Moving on to another important issue, Members are aware of the disagreement between the Welsh and UK Governments over the WTO—the World Trade Organization—provisions in the Bill, and whether consent should have been requested. During our scrutiny of the original version of the Bill, the Minister told us that clause 26, as it was then, was a red-line issue for the Welsh Government. However, the Minister also told us that the issue may be resolved by means of an inter-governmental agreement. Now, we recognise that such agreements are made between Governments. However, entering into them as a means of resolving issues within a UK Bill that requires the Senedd's consent, and then not making that agreement publicly available in a timely manner, minimises the ability of the Senedd and its committees to fully scrutinise the implications of that UK Bill for Welsh communities.

Our reports on the LCMs for the original Bill, and our first report published in May on the current Bill, detailed our concerns with the use of the bilateral agreement related to what are now clauses 40 to 42 in the current Bill. In our July report on the second LCM, we noted that the UK Government now considers that the Senedd's consent is required for these clauses. Our July report made three corresponding recommendations. We asked the Minister to provide detailed information on the UK Government's revised position; we also asked the Minister to provide us with the detail of the agreement reached with the Secretary of State on the exercise of the regulation-making powers in those clauses. The Minister wrote to us on 11 September. However, the response does not provide the clear, detailed information that we requested.

During our consideration of the first LCM for the original version of the Bill, the Minister suggested that the UK Agriculture Bill supports devolution, a view that we did not and we do not share. Today we are debating whether or not to permit the UK Parliament to legislate on Wales's behalf in a very crucial area of policy. Our committees have also undertaken scrutiny of LCMs for the UK fisheries, environment and trade Bills. In each of our reports on these important Bills, we have highlighted the same or similar concerns. While we welcome the steps the Welsh Government has taken to address some of our concerns within the UK Agriculture Bill, giving consent to another Parliament to legislate on these important matters is a difficult decision and one that should certainly not be taken lightly. Thank you, acting Llywydd.

I now call Janet Finch-Saunders.

Thank you, acting Presiding Officer. The importance of this Agriculture Bill cannot be overstated. It includes measures to enable the continuity of existing agricultural support and to ensure the effective functioning of the sector. There are many positives, such as the red meat levy, and in particular Schedule 5, which not only enables Welsh Ministers to continue direct payments in Wales under the BPS after 2020 but also helps to simplify and improve the scheme. 

Additionally, Schedule 5, Part 2 enables Welsh Ministers to make a declaration of intervention should there be exceptional market conditions where incomes of agricultural producers in Wales are being or are likely to be adversely affected. In relation to this, the FUW highlighted that respective Governments in the UK may take a different view on what constitutes an exceptional condition. As such, I welcome the fact that, when such measures are being considered, the four administrations of the UK will consult each other through the UK agricultural market monitoring group.

Co-operation with the agricultural sector and acting on their concerns is essential. Therefore, I would like to place on record my delight at the Minister's acceptance of recommendation 2 in the CCERA committee report on the supplementary LCM. The duty to report to Parliament on UK food security is vitally important also. This is much needed because we are now only 61 per cent self-sufficient in temperate foodstuffs. 

Like the Minister, I welcome the UK Government amendment to increase the reporting frequency from every five to three years. Concerns were raised in relation to clauses 32, identification and traceability of animals, and 37, regulation of organic products. In fact, our committee noted that they were not in a position to recommend to the Senedd that it gives consent to the provisions of the Bill due to outstanding Welsh Government concerns. According to the ministerial responses to the Chairs of the CCERA committee and LJC committee, Government amendments were agreed at Committee Stage and the Minister regards this as a satisfactory resolution to the outstanding concerns. I agree and welcome the relevant Government amendments noted in memorandum No. 3.

The Minister also made an important point in her letter to the Chair of LJC committee in relation to clauses 40 to 42. The bilateral agreement between the Welsh and UK Governments of March 2019 does require the Secretary of State to consult Welsh Ministers before making regulations using powers conferred under those clauses. I am assured by the Minister's comment that the agreement also sets out a robust and transparent mechanism for involving Welsh Ministers in the operation of the regulations. 

In relation to Schedule 3 and agricultural tenancies, FUW and CLA Cymru indicated that there is scope for a separate Welsh Bill. I agree also with NFU Cymru that the Welsh Government should not move forward with the implementation of new policies to replace the CAP until the impacts on the tenanted sector are properly understood. Indeed, the sector accounts for 30 per cent of our farmed land in Wales. We should all be heartened by the Minister's response to recommendation 20 that reform of agricultural tenancy policy in Wales will be considered as part of the development of the agriculture (Wales) White Paper.

I note the comments in the CCERA committee report on the LCM that stakeholders have called for the Bill to include safeguards to ensure that food standards are not undercut by imports in trade agreements. The UK Government has repeatedly made it clear that it will not compromise on the UK's high standards. And the Secretary of State for International Trade has indeed set up the Trade and Agriculture Commission to advise Ministers on the UK's approach to post-Brexit trade agreements. I welcome this commission, but the Welsh Government itself has a role to play in championing our Welsh produce too. For example, we need a clear and explicit target as to when the shelf life of Welsh lamb will be improved, so that it can better compete with New Zealand on the global stage; the development and implementation of a local food charter to maximise the level of Welsh produce being procured; and backing to the Welsh Conservatives' Welsh wool pledge.

The Welsh Conservatives will be voting in favour of giving consent, because to do so is a positive step towards stability and a stronger future for our Welsh farming. However, I do wish to clarify that we do so on the basis that should the non-Government amendments remain in the Bill, a further debate will be tabled, as promised in the letter that you issued, Minister, to us yesterday. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr.

I'm interested to hear that Janet Finch-Saunders says that the Conservatives back food safety, but unfortunately, to date, they have resisted putting explicit clauses on food safety into the Agriculture Bill. and that is a cause of concern.

Now, the House of Lords has very robustly put an amendment into the Bill last week requiring all food products imported under future trade deals to meet or exceed domestic standards of food safety, labelling and animal welfare standards. The key is, though, what is going to happen to that clause when it goes back to the House of Commons, and that is why I share Mick Antoniw's and Mike Hedges's reservations about passing this LCM when we don't yet know what the final shape of the Bill is going to be.

There was also a second amendment that was very important, which was around ensuring the ban on the use of pesticides near homes and public buildings like schools and hospitals. That seems to me an incredibly important public health measure. So, I really would like to hear from the Government what safeguards there are for us to resist chlorinated chicken and all its ghastly works if the UK Government throws out these two very important clauses inserted by the House of Lords when it comes back to the House of Commons later this week. Does it give us another opportunity to say we now withhold our agreement? Can you write to the agriculture Minister in the UK Government and say that we give our consent as long as these clauses stay in, or what is the situation? Because, as others have said, we really, really need our own agriculture Bill if we're not going to be short-changing our farmers and our public about the very important issue of food standards.

I do think that this Bill does highlight everything that is wrong about the process of legislative consent and the constitutional settlement, as it stands. We are considering the LCM, as we've heard, on Bill that is still being amended. We've had four Government LCMs, including the third last Friday and the latest yesterday morning. Amendments have been accepted, and Members will support them, and these issues are sure to be withdrawn when it goes back to the Commons. And then those Members, as we've heard, will want to change their minds.

So, although there is so much wrong with this Bill, one does feel that our hands are tied, because, of course, without consenting to this Bill, then Welsh Ministers wouldn't have the powers to directly support Welsh farmers through basic payments. So, what kind of choice does that give us? We have the option of either giving consent to legislation, which, in part, in my view, is damaging to the sector but at least protects our ability to provide grants, or to reject consent in the hope that we can defend the sector from some of the threats that I see in the Bill, but, through doing that, lose the ability to support the sector through payments. So, it's not much of a choice at all. And the greatest irony here—and nobody has said this so far—the truth is, whatever we decide, the UK Government, which is also operating, in this context, as the English Government, will do what they choose in any case. That's the truth of the matter.

But in terms of some of the specifics, of course I welcome the sunset clause that we've heard mention of; it's something that we called for in order to ensure that there will be a Welsh agriculture Bill and that Ministers don't continue to use the additional powers forever and a day. I'm also pleased that arrangements are being put in place in order to ensure fairer sharing out of the red meat levy, and I'm pleased that the confusion over the possibility that AHDB would undertake matters that Hybu Cig Cymru and EIDCymru are already responsible for will be tidied up, and that that, of course, is reliant on the need for ministerial consent in Wales.

But, essentially, that is one of the great weaknesses I see here, namely the failure of this Bill to put in place inter-governmental arrangements that are clear and robust, not only in terms of policy and ensuring that there is a robust framework in place that facilitates the internal market of the UK on the one hand, whilst allowing diversion of policy across the devolved administrations and Parliaments, but also the arrangements as to how financial resources are fairly distributed among the UK Governments—how we can ensure that every devolved administration complies with international obligations, as well as ensuring arrangements to resolve disputes. And I fear that the arrangements put in place, or the informal agreement, perhaps, between the UK Government and the Welsh Government is entirely inadequate. I don't see the Welsh Government as an equal partner, as it should be in those negotiations, because the UK Government, at the end of the day, will be able to do as it chooses, whatever we say.

There is much that isn't included in the Bill, which I would like to have seen included; there is a great deal that I would like to change, which is in the Bill, but, of course, we don't have the opportunity to do that. And at the end of the day, the important thing is that we have the powers in order to ensure that the Welsh Parliament and the Welsh Government is in a position to provide direct support to the agricultural sector in Wales. But I have to say that I've never felt as downhearted in voting in favour of a motion in this Senedd in the past.

And the Minister to reply.

Thank you very much, Chair. I'd like to thank Members for their contributions during this debate. I think I said in my opening remarks that, certainly, if we had been drafting it, we wouldn't have drafted it in this way, but I do want to reiterate the point that we very much would have preferred to have brought forward our own agriculture Bill, a bespoke Bill, for the agricultural sector here in Wales. And I am committed to bringing forward a draft White Paper before the end of this calendar year. Even with all the difficult times at the moment with the COVID-19 pandemic, I assure Members that the draft White Paper is on target to be published before the end of this year.

This Bill—you know, several Members pointed out that it's been a long time coming. We had the first Bill back two years ago, in September 2018, and obviously that fell when the UK Government called a general election last year. So, I think it's right to point out that this is several reiterations. But I have worked very closely with the Secretary of State, and officials have worked very closely also.

I'd like to thank both Chairs of the committees—Mike Hedges and Mick Antoniw—for their comments. And I think hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I do wish we had been able to find the time in the legislative programme to bring forward our Bill, as I said. But we have to look at this Bill, because the provisions relating to Wales will enable us to provide the agricultural sector with vital stability and continuity as we transition out of the European Union. It is an incredibly unsettling time for the agricultural sector, but this will provide some of that stability.

Several Members mentioned the red lines when I attended committee, and you'll be aware that the WTO was certainly one area that was a very clear red line for me, because we had made very clear to the UK Government we did not accept the WTO clause was wholly reserved. But we have now this bilateral agreement between the Welsh and UK Governments, and that's guided by the principles that are set out in the inter-governmental agreement, so it does require the UK Government to consult the devolved administrations and to seek to proceed by agreement before bringing forward any regulations. So, I wanted to make that point again, Chair, to reassure Members.

As Llyr Huws Gruffydd pointed out, we have certainly taken the recommendations on board. There were many, many helpful comments from committees, and the sunset clause is absolutely a point in case, and that has been brought forward at my request.

Janet Finch-Saunders, I have always been a champion for Welsh produce and the Welsh agricultural sector since I've been in this portfolio. It's part of the make-up of our wonderful agricultural sector. I think there is more we can do around procurement, I'd be the first to admit that, and I will certainly take that forward. And, again, around tenancy, you're quite right—a significant number of our farmers in Wales are tenants, and it's very important that we had our consultation around that and, clearly, also, when we'll be bringing our Bill forward, I want to do more to support the tenant farmers we have.

I also wanted to say, about the LCM process, I don't disagree that it's not a difficult process. We're required to lay an LCM in the Senedd normally no later than two weeks after amendments are tabled or agreed, but, due to the advanced stage of the Bill and, therefore, the lack of time available for normal Senedd scrutiny, that's why I wrote to the committees and Members of the Senedd to outline the amendments that have been made. Finally, Chair, I would like to reassure Members that, if the Bill looks very different, I will, of course, come back for further scrutiny from the Senedd.

Thank you, Minister. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

There will now be a short break to allow for the changeover in the Chamber.

Plenary was suspended at 17:47.

The Senedd reconvened at 17:52, with the Llywydd in the Chair.