Part of 1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd at 1:41 pm on 6 October 2020.
Well, I agree with aspects of the Member's supplementary question. I agree with her that the vast majority of people in Wales continue to observe the rules and to be scrupulous about it, and that breaches of the rules are carried out by a small minority of people when those breaches are deliberate, flagrant and repeated. When I spoke with the chief constable of Gwent last week about the position in Gwent, where local restrictions have been in place for a number of weeks, she told me that 95 per cent of the population there were complying with the rules and working hard to do so. So, I don't agree with some of the things the Member said, which seemed to imply that there was wholesale non-observation of the restrictions that we've had to put in place.
Where there is a need to increase penalties, we have done so. Back in May, we added to the multiplier of people who repeatedly break the rules so that the maximum penalty in Wales went from £120 to £1,920, and we moved quickly, in advance of August bank holiday, to make sure that £10,000 fines were available in Wales for people who seek to organise illegal music events. Now, we continue to discuss with the police whether they would find it useful to have extended penalties, as I say, in a number of specific areas, including for people who organise house parties and people who flagrantly refuse to observe self-isolation, and if the case is there, then we will do it.
In the end—I'll just make this final point to the Member, Llywydd—this only works if we have a trust-based system, if people are willing to play their part and are convinced of the need to do so. Enforcement has to be a last resort, not a first resort, but where that last resort is needed, we won't hesitate to use it in Wales.