3. What plans does the Welsh Government have to increase the penalties for those breaking COVID-19 rules? OQ55666

Llywydd, we keep all aspects of our regulations under continual review, including our approach to fixed-penalty notices. We are currently considering whether the regime needs to be adapted to address specific issues, such as the holding of street or house parties. 

Thank you, First Minister. It is blatantly obvious that the carrot approach is not working and the fines imposed aren't much of a deterrent either. Most of the population of south Wales are once again in draconian lockdowns and all because of the actions of a selfish minority. We have had our liberty curtailed because a few people wanted to have house parties. We are not allowed to visit loved ones because some people thought the rules did not apply to them or that £60 was a small price to pay for a bit of fun. Rules apply to everyone, from Government Ministers to governance students and it is high time we cracked down on rule breakers, and I'm fed up of seeing social media littered with people flagrantly and unashamedly breaking the rules. First Minister, do you agree that we need far steeper penalties and stricter enforcement if we are to avoid more local or even national lockdowns? Diolch.

Well, I agree with aspects of the Member's supplementary question. I agree with her that the vast majority of people in Wales continue to observe the rules and to be scrupulous about it, and that breaches of the rules are carried out by a small minority of people when those breaches are deliberate, flagrant and repeated. When I spoke with the chief constable of Gwent last week about the position in Gwent, where local restrictions have been in place for a number of weeks, she told me that 95 per cent of the population there were complying with the rules and working hard to do so. So, I don't agree with some of the things the Member said, which seemed to imply that there was wholesale non-observation of the restrictions that we've had to put in place.

Where there is a need to increase penalties, we have done so. Back in May, we added to the multiplier of people who repeatedly break the rules so that the maximum penalty in Wales went from £120 to £1,920, and we moved quickly, in advance of August bank holiday, to make sure that £10,000 fines were available in Wales for people who seek to organise illegal music events. Now, we continue to discuss with the police whether they would find it useful to have extended penalties, as I say, in a number of specific areas, including for people who organise house parties and people who flagrantly refuse to observe self-isolation, and if the case is there, then we will do it.

In the end—I'll just make this final point to the Member, Llywydd—this only works if we have a trust-based system, if people are willing to play their part and are convinced of the need to do so. Enforcement has to be a last resort, not a first resort, but where that last resort is needed, we won't hesitate to use it in Wales. 

I live in the largest population crossing a national boundary in the UK, with close relatives nearby on both sides of our invisible border. In this context, what penalties for breaking COVID-19 rules do you believe should apply were an anaesthetic junior doctor at Ysbyty Gland Clwyd to meet his fiancé, undertaking a clinical fellowship at Christie hospital in Manchester, when each has to live locally to these hospitals, each has been at the front line of the coronavirus pandemic since its beginning here, which led both to contract COVID-19 in the course of their work, each has worked additional hours without additional pay, and each lives alone. They persevered with physical and mental exhaustion by supporting each other. However, your latest announcement on lockdown restrictions in north-east Wales means that their primary outlet of support is now illegal because they can't visit each other. 

Well, I've no doubt, Llywydd, that they will understand better than the Member why those restrictions are necessary. On the Welsh side of the north-east Wales border, the rates of coronavirus are still below 100 per 100,000 in the population. In Manchester, today, they are reporting over 500 per 100,000 of the population. And people who work in the health service will undoubtedly understand why it is not sensible for people from very high coronavirus areas to be able to travel to and mix with people who live in areas where the virus is not in such vivid circulation. Those members of the health service will also know, even if the Member doesn't, that the impact of coronavirus at community level is now being felt in our hospitals as well. In the last week, we had 453 beds in our NHS occupied by people with suspected or confirmed coronavirus; two weeks ago, that was 203. Now, if the Member does not understand the need to take action and to take action now to prevent the impact on our NHS returning to where it once was earlier in the year, then I can assure him that people who work in the health service understand that very well.