The party spokespeople next. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Dai Lloyd. 

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Minister, the Welsh Government has rightly criticised the internal market Bill as an enormous power grab, which you say you will oppose every step of the way. You will be aware that Plaid Cymru MPs laid an amendment to the Bill at Westminster, which would have protected the devolution settlement by preventing the Bill from coming into force unless the devolved legislatures gave their consent. Now, despite the cross-party support of the SNP, Liberal Democrats and Greens, Labour MPs decided to abstain. Now, do you agree that Labour MPs did Wales a great disservice by failing to back an amendment that was fully consistent with the Labour Welsh Government's policy? Do you also agree that it was a missed opportunity to display a strong cross-party stance in defence of devolution? And can you explain how this fits with the stated Labour Party position of opposing the Bill every step of the way? 

There are certainly examples, Llywydd, of amendments put forward by the Labour Party to defend devolution, which Plaid Cymru haven't supported in Parliament. I would urge the Member that, at this point, we should be looking for ways of working together. We have a very productive relationship with the Scottish National Party in Scotland. It is a mature and collaborative relationship that acknowledges that Governments of different political colours can work together where they have a common interest. I hope, at some point, that we can persuade Plaid Cymru to have the same kind of relationship with us in Wales. 

Of course, the Bill increases the likelihood of a 'no deal' Brexit. Business leaders are this week again warning of the risks of a 'no deal' on already fragile businesses currently suffering the impacts of the pandemic. So, what assessments, therefore, have you undertaken in terms of the multiple threats facing businesses in Wales in the event of a 'no deal'? And do you not agree that that analysis should be brought to this Chamber as a matter of urgency? 

Well, the Member will be aware that we have consistently modelled the impact on the Welsh economy and Welsh businesses of the range of scenarios that we may face, and there is a significant amount of evidence-based analysis in the public domain through the hands of the Welsh Government. At this point in time, as he will have heard me say to David Rees earlier, we are anxious to make sure that businesses in Wales are alert, amongst the range of other pressures that they face at the moment, to the need to prepare for the end of the transition period. We continue to keep the Brexit portal updated. We continue to make funding available to support businesses. The most recent iteration of the ERF has an eye on both COVID and Brexit preparedness, because these things needs to be looked at in the round, as I know the Member agrees. The task at this point is to try and guide businesses towards that, and as the picture becomes clearer—and I know that you will share my regrets that we are not able to provide a clearer picture at this point—businesses will have a better chance, as it were, to be able to make those preparations, but none of us should underestimate the scale of that challenge and the scale of the burden that imposes on businesses right across Wales.

The—[Inaudible.]—will have a potentially catastrophic impact on the NHS—[Inaudible.]

Dai Lloyd, can you restart the question, please? Sorry, we weren't able to hear you via your Zoom connection. So, just try again and we'll see where we get to.

I apologise, Llywydd. I'm naturally softly spoken, plainly. [Laughter.]

The British Medical Association have this week warned that a 'no deal' Brexit will have a potentially catastrophic impact on the NHS, with clear concerns around supply of pharmaceuticals, medical devices and protective equipment. We know that the Welsh Government have built up a Brexit warehouse of medical supplies and that these supplies have been utilised as part of the COVID response. Now, earlier this year, the pharmaceutical industry warned that some supplies had been completely used up. What assurances can you therefore give around the availability levels of medicines in the Brexit warehouse, given that we are potentially only a few months away from a potential 'no deal' Brexit?

I thank Dai Lloyd for raising this very, very important question in the Chamber today. This is obviously a key priority for us as a Government. And as with previous stages of preparation, some of the solutions are UK-wide and some of them are bespoke to Wales. So, in relation to medicines first, as he raises in his question, all four Governments in the UK are engaged in continuity of supply discussions. Parts of that are around express freight services, and parts of it are around supply disruption response. But there are additional steps that we are taking in Wales to give us additional assurance in relation to that, and some of that, as his question suggests, is about learning from the experience of COVID-19.

In relation to medical supplies, whether that's medical devices or clinical consumables, for example—and this, by the way, relates both to the NHS and to parts of the social care sector, for reasons that he will understand—we are reviewing and replenishing the Welsh stock holdings of MDCC products. We are testing and refining the plans that we had in place at the end of last year in anticipation of leaving without any sort of deal at all. And we still, as his question implies, benefit very significantly from investment in the warehouse storage facility and IP5 near Newport, which continues to be able to help us in our preparation work.

The Conservative spokesperson next—Darren Millar.

Diolch, Llywydd. I want to ask some questions in relation to the Minister's responsibility for COVID recovery. What consideration has the Minister given to older people as part of the Welsh Government's build back better project?

We recognise the impact on various groups in Wales has been unequal of the COVID experience. Older people are amongst those and we will frame our response in light of that to be able to make sure that older people across Wales get the support they need in our response.

Thank you for that answer, Minister, but there has been precious little evidence so far that you're taking the impact of the coronavirus on older people seriously. I was very surprised when I saw the coronavirus reconstruction challenges and priorities document published yesterday, with not a single reference to older people actually being in it. I understand that you've held a number of round-tables, including one that was entitled, and I quote, 'Planning for Economic and Social recovery from the Coronavirus pandemic: Annex 2: Vulnerable Groups'. Yet even that particular round-table did not involve anybody from the older people's commissioner's office. In fact, I understand that the older people's commissioner was not invited to meet you and, in fact, her office had to make a request to meet you and it wasn't until that time that you actually did meet with her to discuss her concerns around the impact on older people. So, can I ask you: why is it that you've got such a blind spot for older people as a Welsh Government when it comes to including them within your COVID reconstruction efforts?

Well, I certainly don't accept the premise of the Member's question. Whether it's in relation to the challenges from isolation, the support required for people who are shielding, perhaps, the support required from third sector organisations, the particular set of interventions required from public services to acknowledge the experience of older people in this pandemic, whether it's about acknowledging the particular contribution that older volunteers have been able to make in a very positive way to supporting other people in their communities during this time, whether it's a particular recognition of the needs of older people who might be at risk of losing their jobs and particular support that they might need that is tailored for people at the latter part of a work journey—all of those are absolutely fundamental to the interventions that we've made to date and our continuing discussions. 

I have met with the older people's commissioner. I can't assure him in relation to whose office made the first approach to which person in relation to any of the very large range of meetings that we've held with stakeholders in relation to this, but I've certainly found the discussion with the older people's commissioner, which happened I think at a comparatively early stage, very productive and demonstrated a very good and positive meeting of minds. 

It's very nice to hear your warm words about older people now; it's a shame that none of them were contained in any of the documents that were published by your office yesterday. And, of course, you didn't reference older people either in your statement to this Senedd. And perhaps, frankly, if you'd been more supportive of my older people's rights Bill when it was presented to this Senedd, we might be in a slightly different position. I can assure you that the commissioner's office has made it clear to me that she had to put the request in to your office for the meeting, which you eventually did have, and not the other way around. 

Look, we all know that older people have faced serious consequences as a result of the pandemic and, in fact, they've been disproportionately impacted by it. We know that they're more likely to die, they're more likely to suffer serious illness, more likely to have to self-isolate, more likely to suffer the impact of loneliness as a result of this pandemic. And, of course, they're more likely to be victims of the even longer delays that we are now going to have in accessing NHS tests and treatments as a result of the backlog that has built up in our health service during the pandemic. Now, the recovery plan you published yesterday, for all your warm words today, does not address a single one of those challenges. So, I ask you: will you now agree with me that there needs to be a further round-table specifically focusing on the needs of older people, bringing experts together, including the older people's commissioner and other important stakeholders in the third sector and the public sector, so that we can make sure that we get this right and that older people can be confident that the Welsh Government is actually listening to and addressing their concerns, not, frankly, ignoring them, as you have been to date?

Well, there is an ongoing range of engagement with stakeholders in relation to this document. As I said yesterday in my statement, this is the beginning of a national conversation, and the conversation we've had has been rich, it has had a range of voices, sometimes complimentary, sometimes more challenging, in the way that these things are, and we welcome all of that, and we will continue on the same basis to engage with everybody affected by COVID in Wales and to listen to their voices, and to reflect their voices faithfully in our considerations. 

I invite the Member to look at page 22 of the document, where he'll find priority 8, which itself talks about supporting the NHS to make up lost ground in terms of treatment of non-coronavirus-related conditions, and sets out across the balance of that page a number of interventions that the Government will undertake. I don't know if he got that far in the document, but it makes specific reference to reinstating routine services, which we absolutely recognise, as I'm sure all Members do. People who've been waiting longer as a consequence have made their own particular contribution in the response to COVID, and this Government absolutely recognises that. As I mentioned in my response to his question yesterday, the health Minister, of course, will be making further statements in relation to this in addition to the statement recently made about the winter protection plan.

Question 3—try again, Alun Davies.

Thank you very much for your patience, Presiding Officer.