1. What discussions has the Welsh Government had with Her Majesty's Courts and Tribunal Service about tackling the spread of COVID-19 on the courts' estate in Wales? OQ55713

Llywydd, I thank Dawn Bowden for her question. Courts in Wales must operate safely during the pandemic. To that end, officials maintain regular dialogue with the Ministry of Justice and with HMCTS. I have written to the chief executive seeking further assurances that all necessary steps are being taken to ensure the safety of those attending court premises in Wales.

Thank you for that answer, First Minister. Following concerns that were raised with me, I've also recently written to the courts and tribunal service seeking assurance that their operational practices remain in line with Welsh COVID rules. I do, of course, understand that the courts service is under considerable pressure at the moment, but I was disturbed to hear that people appearing before the courts in Cardiff at weekends may have been transferred from areas like Merthyr Tydfil and mid and west Wales, and held in conditions that are not compliant with Welsh COVID regulations. I further understand that some 16 solicitors working in the courts in Cardiff have also made representations to the courts service with their concerns about safe working practices. So, can you please seek two assurances: one, that the treatment of people on remand, and appearing before the courts in Wales, as well as those people working in the courts, is in compliance with Welsh COVID regulations, and to ask that her Majesty's Courts and Tribunal Service make full use of their estate, including the restoration of weekend courts in places like Merthyr Tydfil, if needed, to help us all keep safe from the spread of infection?

Llywydd, I thank Dawn Bowden for her supplementary question. I'm very happy to take up the issues that she has identified. I thank her for letting me have sight of the letter that she herself has written to the courts and tribunal service, and I did indeed see the letter from legal practitioners—their open letter of 18 September. I want to just assure Members that the Welsh Government has remained in regular dialogue with senior people in the courts service throughout the pandemic—both myself and the Counsel General. I had an exchange of letters with the Lord Chief Justice earlier in August, in which he said to me that Wales had been at the forefront of the efforts made by the service for safe reopening of Crown Courts and magistrates' courts. And I last had an exchange of letters with the Lord Chancellor, which culminated in a reply from him on 21 September. 

So, I want to give Members an assurance that we have pursued issues throughout the pandemic, making sure that Public Health Wales advice is directly available to the courts service, and that its advice is properly known to them. It is then for them to make sure that they minimise risks both to the defendants and to other people who are working in the courts system, and we will continue to make representations to the UK Government to ensure that court premises in Wales are safe for all of those who need to use them. 

COVID-19, of course, is impacting on our courts and enforcement authorities from two directions: the actual virus and the burden of the regulations. Now, here in Cardiff, the jury in the trial of a man alleged to have been involved in a shooting incident has been discharged after one of their number reported coronavirus symptoms. Enforcement officers can recommend prosecution in a magistrates' court should local lockdown restrictions be breached, but they are simply overwhelmed.

Now, South Wales Police is responding to an average of 40 reports of potential breaches daily, and Arfon Jones, the north Wales police and crime commissioner, has stated publicly that now we're back to normal with traditional crime, plus we've still got to enforce these coronavirus regulations. So, what steps, First Minister, are you taking to assist with tackling the two major issues being caused to enforcement authorities by COVID-19?

Llywydd, I would not myself describe the regulations that are there to keep us all safe as a burden. They are a necessary protection, which means that people's lives in Wales are safer than they would be without the regulations. I recognise what the police and crime commissioner for north Wales has said, that levels of general crime were suppressed back in March and April, but they have recovered—if that's the right word—to the sorts of levels that were being seen earlier in the year. And now our police forces are working very hard indeed to make sure both that they deal with those matters, and that they also are able to assist in the vital business of enforcing coronavirus restrictions and regulations here in Wales. I fully support the approach that our police forces have taken throughout the pandemic—that you begin always by making sure that people are aware of the rules, that you educate, you advise, you encourage, but, when that runs out and people deliberately and knowingly break the laws that are there to protect us all, then enforcement action must be taken. And that is the approach that our police forces are taking, and they have the full support of the Welsh Government in doing so.