3. Topical Questions – in the Senedd on 14 October 2020.
1. Will the First Minister make a statement following the latest news that the UK Prime Minister has rejected a further request made by the Welsh Government on 13 October relating to travel restrictions? TQ494
Llywydd, no letter from the Prime Minister has been received in reply to my request. I have therefore asked for the necessary work to be brought forward that would allow for devolved powers to be used to prevent people from travelling into Wales from high-prevalence areas of the United Kingdom.
May I start by correcting one thing that was suggested yesterday, First Minister, which is that there is any anti-English motivation in raising this issue? I can say that with some assurance, because I am the son of an Englishwoman. It's not only insulting to me, to my family and my party to suggest that there are anti-English attitudes involved here, but it also hides the real reason for raising the issue, namely safeguarding the public and providing equity and fairness to people, for example the young woman from the Bangor area who simply asked the question: 'Why can't I visit my grandmother when people from lockdown areas in other parts of the UK can come here on holiday?' Now, could we have—whilst accepting that it's clear that continuous correspondence is pointless—can we have a timetable from you, First Minister? Is the draft legislation ready? Are you ready to publish that legislation? What is the timetable now in terms of legislation? What are the plans in terms of the implementation of that legislation? And, also, how are you going to communicate this across the UK, and is it possible to do that now so that it does have an impact in terms of travelling from lockdown areas during the half-term period, which will start in England next week?
Well, Llywydd, it is important to emphasise once again that this isn't an issue with regard to the border between Wales and England; that's not the point here. As Adam Price said now, it's a matter of fairness in terms of what we've done here in Wales and what we've asked the Prime Minister to do in England. So, that's why I've written, once again, to the Prime Minister. The timetable for the powers that we have in Wales is to do it by the end of the week. That gives more time for the Prime Minister to do the things that we have asked him to do; to do the same thing for people who live in England as we have done for people who live in Wales. We've already heard from the First Minister in Scotland, and she is eager to support what we're trying to do here. Now is the time for the Prime Minister to do the same thing. If he isn't willing to do so, the timetable for us is to use the powers in Wales by the end of the week.
Paul Davies. Can Paul Davies be unmuted?
There we go. Paul Davies.
Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, if the Welsh Government introduces a travel ban on English people entering Wales, then it's absolutely essential that it publishes the data it has to prove that transmission rates are accelerating due to travel. Now, as I said in my questions to you yesterday afternoon, the people of Wales deserve to have sight of the data that underpins the Welsh Government's position on this matter so that they can be confident that the Government's actions are proportionate to the threat of the virus in their area. Therefore, will you now publish the data outlining the causes of virus transmission so that we can see for ourselves whether a travel ban is necessary?
Now, I've read the paper that accompanied your letter to the Prime Minister yesterday, and that paper confirms that the data does not constitute definitive proof in favour of a travel ban. In fact, that paper goes one step further and suggests that it should be considered alongside a range of other factors before a conclusion is reached. And it also shows that transmission rates in relation to travel have already peaked in August into September. So, do you believe that this paper constitutes enough evidence when, by its own words, it implores you to consider it alongside other data to justify a travel ban?
Finally, on 23 September, First Minister, you said that the Welsh Government wasn't seeing any spikes at all in infection due to travel and tourism, so perhaps you can tell Members when exactly did the Welsh Government start seeing spikes in transmission as a direct result of travel and tourism?
Llywydd, let me assure the Member that the people of Wales do not need the sort of explanation that he is offering. The people in Wales are clamouring for us to take the action that would protect them from people travelling into Wales from high infection areas elsewhere, and nowhere is that more true than in the Member's own constituency, where people are anxious and fearful of the effects on their area of people from very high transmission areas elsewhere—not being able to travel there from Wales, but, absurdly, still being able to travel from England to those areas. So, he is entirely out of step with the views and the preferences of people in Wales.
I was glad to publish that paper yesterday. It certainly does not implore me to do anything, and I'm more likely to rely on the advice of those who are experts in genomics, rather than amateur readers of their advice. If he wants two other bits of evidence—as I say, not that people in Wales need his evidence, because they are well convinced already—the evidence is, Llywydd, that up to 80 per cent of new infections are spread by superspreaders. So, it doesn't take many people to come in from an outside area who are a superspreader to have a very large effect. Secondly, using the novel techniques developed by specialists in Bangor University, we're now monitoring the waste water from points along the coast of north Wales and north-west England, and we're seeing significant loads of genomic copies of COVID-19 that show an increase in the likely prevalence of that virus in catchment areas. It demonstrates that visitors from beyond Wales bring the virus with them. That's what people are anxious to avoid, that's why we took action here in Wales. Wouldn't it be good if his party was willing to do the same?
I thank the First Minister.