Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the Conservatives, Paul Davies.

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, as the Welsh Government starts considering the effectiveness of its firebreak lockdown, it is crucial that it also assesses the level of support that is being offered to Welsh businesses, many of whom have been under some form of Government restrictions for much longer than just two weeks, of course. Can you tell us whether you believe the Welsh Government's package of support has met the needs of businesses across the country, and do you believe that your grant funding systems have adequately provided for businesses?

Well, Llywydd, the Welsh Government provides the most generous package of support for businesses of anywhere in the United Kingdom. Does that mean that we have been able to meet every impact of coronavirus on every business in Wales? Well, of course not, because these are extraordinary times, with extraordinary challenges being faced by businesses here in Wales. What I can tell the Member is that, during phase 1 of our economic resilience fund—a £500 million fund—a total of nearly 7,000 grants were made to microbusinesses, totalling nearly £125 million. In phase 2, another 5,000 grants, totalling over £58 million. And, in phase 3, when our eligibility checker went live on 19 October, nearly 160,000 users explored the help that was available to them through the Welsh Government. Now, we would like to do more, and it will be good when we are in possession of the full facts, both of the furlough scheme and of help that will come to Wales because of changes in assistance to businesses in England. I'm sure the Member looks forward to urging his Government, even though he is apparently no longer a supporter of it, to make sure that we get everything we need here in Wales. 

Well, First Minister, it remains a fact that businesses in most parts of south Wales and north Wales have been under Government restrictions for several weeks, and many have simply not been able to access the support that they need, and prior to the Wales-wide lockdown, you made it clear that businesses would receive grants automatically. However, that hasn't been the case. Not only have businesses had to apply for grants, the funding is provided on a first come, first served basis, rather than on actual need. And, last week, the economic resilience fund phase 3 business development grant, which you've just referred to, was suspended a mere 24 hours after opening, and businesses are still concerned and anxious over how they can stay afloat and provide jobs for local people. And, even now, hospitality businesses are still in limbo about what the new Welsh Government measures will mean for them from next Monday. So, First Minister, what steps is the Welsh Government taking to provide confidence to Welsh businesses that they will be able to access the support that they need, when they need it? And are you now in a position to provide some much needed clarity to hospitality businesses across Wales so they can plan ahead of the new measures next week? And can you tell us if the economic resilience fund phase 3 will be reopened, and when will this take place? 

Well, Llywydd, the first way to give confidence to Welsh businesses is in being accurate about what we say to them. So, I could try and unscramble a number of the inaccuracies in the questions that the leader of the opposition has just put to me. Let us be clear, properties will automatically qualify for help from that aspect of the fund that deals with people who are on the non-domestic rates rating for their local authorities. Of course, they have to apply for it; we're not in the business of offering help to businesses who don't want it. But all they have to do is demonstrate that they were on the non-domestic rates rating list and they will get that help automatically.

Nor is the Member correct in saying that all aspects of the third phase of the ERF were closed that rapidly. The £200 million lockdown business fund element remains open and is still taking applications. It is true that one strand in the fund received a very large number of applications very rapidly. We will look, Llywydd, to see whether there is any further possibility of reopening that aspect of the fund, and, as I said to Paul Davies, we'll be immensely helped in that when the Treasury is able to tell us the consequential funding that will come to Wales as a result of the help that has already been guaranteed to businesses in England. 

I'm making a statement later this afternoon, Llywydd, in relation to the post-firebreak arrangements here in Wales, and I'll have things to say for the hospitality sector then.  

Well, I'm glad you will be saying something a little bit later on this afternoon, because businesses do actually want clarity from you, First Minister. Now, it's not just businesses that need support; it's people too, of course. On 30 October, you once again confirmed that self-isolation grants can be awarded to people on low incomes in Wales who are required to self-isolate. You had previously given a similar commitment on 22 September. Now, First Minister, we know that local authorities in Scotland and England have been delivering the grants for some weeks and backdating them to 28 September, yet we're not seeing the same level of action being taken to support those people that need it the most in Wales, and this may risk them ending their isolation too soon in order to pay their bills. Therefore, can you tell us why people on low incomes across Wales have not yet received their self-isolation payments? Can you also update us on the latest discussions you have had with local authorities in Wales about delivering those grants? And can you give us a realistic time frame now for when people in Wales will actually receive their self-isolation grant?  

Well, Llywydd, we've already set out our plans to support people who are self-isolating. Those £500 payments will be available to people in Wales. They will be available through local authorities, who are in the best position to be able to respond quickly to people's needs and, at the same time, to make sure that the system we have in Wales has some safeguards against fraud in a system where you want to get help to people quickly but you still have to make sure that the help is going to the right place. I'm very grateful to our local authorities for taking on this additional set of responsibilities on top of everything else that we have relied on them to do in supporting their local populations. The help that we will give to people to support them in self-isolation will be matched by a set of penalties to bear down on those people who knowingly and deliberately fail to follow the advice given to them by our test, trace, protect system. At the same time, we will make it an offence for employers knowingly to encourage people to go into work when they should be self-isolating. It is a package deal that the Welsh Government has put together with elements of the carrot and the stick, and all of that is designed to make sure that our TTP system goes on being as effective as it already has been, and far more effective than in other parts of the United Kingdom.

Plaid Cymru leader, Adam Price.

First Minister, you said yesterday that, if we were not part of the UK, we wouldn't be having a discussion about furlough because, you implied, we couldn't afford it. Why is that?

Llywydd, I was simply making it clear that people in Wales pay into the insurance scheme that is the United Kingdom. I was taking issue with remarks made by the Secretary of State for Wales that somehow help had been given to Wales out of the largesse of the UK Government. What has happened is that Wales, which makes a greater tax effort—its citizens make a greater tax effort than any other part of the United Kingdom—is using that insurance policy. We have paid in and now we are taking out of the scheme when it meets our needs. But if we weren't part of a scheme, if we weren't paying in, then we wouldn't be able to take out, and that's the point that I was making.

Switzerland, Norway, Denmark, Latvia, Estonia, Ireland and even Luxembourg, with a population the same size as Cardiff, are all funding wage subsidy schemes equivalent to the furlough as small, independent countries, so why would an independent Wales be any different? Indeed, as an independent country we could even decide to go further than that, and introduce a universal basic income so that we could help the one third of self-employed people who aren't currently getting any help at all. If Wales was an independent country, we would have our own fully functioning Treasury and a central bank, meaning we could do what every other country in the world is doing at the moment to meet the cost of the pandemic, which is borrowing on the capital markets and using quantitative easing. The UK Treasury is paying for the furlough scheme by borrowing and through monetary financing. What makes you convinced, First Minister, that an independent Wales wouldn't or couldn't do the same, like the other small countries that I've mentioned? Why do you believe that we are uniquely unable to make economic decisions for ourselves?

Llywydd, we just have a completely different point of view. The Member is in favour of separatism. It is for him to make the case for that, not for me to explain why I think he is in error. I make the positive case for membership of the United Kingdom. Wales, which has our own independent powers here in the Senedd, which has exercised those powers independently throughout the whole of the coronavirus crisis, at the same time is able to draw on that wider pool of resources that we have through our membership of a United Kingdom, where the needs of working people in Wales are very similar to the needs of working people in other parts of the United Kingdom, and where that sense of solidarity extends beyond our border. The Member's not in favour of that. He wishes to take Wales out of the United Kingdom, to separate us off from everything that we do with others in, as I believe, in my party, the wider labour movement. He can make his case and the people of Wales will decide, but I fundamentally disagree with him.

First Minister, you say that being part of the UK means that Wales has the advantage of participating in a large-scale insurance policy, but haven't the past few weeks just demonstrated that it's a policy that doesn't pay out when we in Wales need it the most? The Tories have claimed that we've had £4 billion from Westminster during the pandemic, but that's just our Barnett share of the money the Treasury has borrowed on our behalf because it's prevented us from borrowing it ourselves. If we were able to borrow ourselves, unfettered as an independent country, then we could do so much more. We could invest in our own testing capacity, as Slovakia has been able to do, enabling it to test two thirds of its entire population over the weekend. When you compare that to the failing UK lighthouse lab system, which is letting Wales down, is it any wonder that people are joining YesCymru in their thousands?

Well, Llywydd, I make the case that the Member never does for social solidarity across the United Kingdom, for us to share our risks and to get our rewards when we need them. I think that has always been to Wales's advantage. It's for the Member to explain to Wales why he believes that, bereft of everything that we obtain through being part of the wider whole, Wales would be more successful alone on the high seas. I've never accepted that argument. I didn't want us to leave the European Union; I don't want us to leave the union that is the United Kingdom.