We now turn to spokespeople's questions, and the first up again this afternoon is the Conservative spokesperson, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Minister, congratulations on your appointment to Cabinet in this very important role. We have some five/six months now before the next parliamentary elections for the Welsh Parliament. I appreciate it's a very tight time frame, but in your initial assessment of what you can achieve in those five to six months, what goals have you set yourself, so that when you look back in March, and we, as legislators, scrutinise what you've achieved in that period, you'll feel are attainable goals within the department?

Thank you very much, Mr Davies. And just to clear that there are a set of priorities that have already been set out within the 'Together for Mental Health' plan. Those priorities won't be changed, but what I think you may see is a shift in emphasis, and what I'm hoping is that my appointment will help to speed up the system—that I can really put some focus on some specific areas of attention.

You'll be aware that already we're very focused on issues relating to mental health in young people and that we're very keen to make sure that psychological therapies are also available to people, amongst other things. I'm particularly keen to make sure that we retain that focus and that we go early on that early intervention and make sure there's provision there for that tier 1 and tier 0 support. I've been a long advocate of social prescribing and I'm very keen to see how those pilots that we've already set out are working.

I'm also very keen to make sure that we monitor how this situation changes, because we're still in the depths of this. There will be people who'll lose their jobs in the next few months, and we'll need to make sure that support is put in place for them. Debt is going to become a big issue and we need to make sure that we understand the relationship between debt and mental health, and put some very key support measures in place to support that.

And, then, the other thing, of course, is that this pandemic will impact on some to a greater extent than others. We know that the black and ethnic minority community, for example, are more likely to be affected, and are less likely to go and seek support. And, so, we need to make sure that we give them access to services in a way that they feel comfortable with. And the other thing, of course, is to keep an eye on people who are already, were already, suffering mental health issues prior to the pandemic because they're confronting this in a more difficult way perhaps than many others.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. Could I draw your attention to the tragic case that's been reported today of Dr Deborah Lamont? She tragically took her life last year, and the findings have come out around the mental health legislation that govern hotel rooms, and in particular assessments and sectioning. There seems to be an anomaly in the categorisation of hotel rooms because they can be designated as your house, even though you might only be staying for one night in that particular area. There is a campaign, as I understand it, supported by the police as well, to try and have this piece of legislation reformed and amended, so that it offers greater protection to people, both on the law enforcement side and the mental health teams, but also people who are in vulnerable positions themselves.

If you're not familiar with the particular case, I fully understand, but could I seek a commitment from you today to review this, and if you feel it's suitable, and I hope you will feel it suitable, to offer your support to amending this piece of legislation, which, as I understand it, is a Westminster piece of legislation, to afford the protection that Dr Deborah Lamont sadly didn't have in this particular instance?

Can I, first of all, pass my condolences on to the family? Every suicide case is one too many and we have got to make sure that services are available for anybody who wants to access mental health support. We know that about 25 per cent of people who take their own lives are not known to social services and other healthcare workers. So, there is space for us to do more here. You'll be aware that we have got a very clear strategy, 'Talk to me 2', which is about reducing suicide and self-harm. But I will make a commitment to you that I will look into that particular issue, to see whether there is indeed an anomaly and whether there is anything we can do, specifically in Wales, to address that issue. But, as you pointed out, it may be that this is UK legislation, in which case, if there is an issue, we can look to whether we want to pursue that with the UK Government.

I'm grateful to you for the commitment you've given there. I'm sure the family of Dr Lamont will also be very grateful for that assurance that you've given this afternoon. 

Another area of concern in this particular case was the ability for the triage team to access the records. If they had accessed them on the night that the police were seeking advice from them, it would have shown that Dr Lamont had already attempted to take her life on a previous occasion. Regrettably, the access to her records wasn't available on that particular night, as I understand it. Since the review, the case review, Cardiff and Vale have said that they've put measures in place to try and make sure that this doesn't happen again, and mental health triage teams in their area would be able to access patient records, so that a whole picture can be developed on the person that they're being asked to give advice on. Can you also commit to looking at this particular portal that Cardiff and Vale have set up for the triage teams, and make sure that, if it is required, it is rolled out across Wales, because I'm sure this isn't an isolated incident and it would will be a terrible circumstance if we found that good practice had been developed out of this tragedy in one part of Wales that other parts of Wales hadn't shared through a lessons learned exercise?

Thanks very much. I know that there's a lot of work being undertaken in relation to crisis care, and there is an assurance group that has been set up, including the police, and I was fortunate enough to be able to discuss with them the issues relating to crisis care in the past couple of weeks. 

I think what's important is that we make sure that the concordat that has been proposed is looked at in detail now, and I'm sure some of the issues that you've pointed out there, which is about making sure the different services are speaking to each other, are aware of what each other are doing and have access to that information that could be of use under those particular circumstances. So, I'll check to see whether the issue that you have outlined is referenced in the concordat, which has recently been produced by that crisis care group.

Thank you. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I’ve already had an opportunity at health committee this morning to congratulate the Minister on her appointment. That role within the Cabinet is certainly an opportunity to increase the profile of mental health within Government.

If I could start with mental health stigma, tackling that should be a priority across the board. In England, however, we hear that the Time to Change campaign is to lose its funding from next year. The campaign here in Wales says that they are seeking their own funding sources. Is the Minister in a position to say whether she intends to continue to fund Time to Change or a similar campaign here in Wales?

Well, I was surprised to see that the UK Government, in the midst of a pandemic, was to halt funding for this important programme—a programme that seeks to prevent stigma in terms of mental health, and there is still work to be done in that area. It’s a huge shame because we know that people working on this programme in Wales have worked with those over the border and, of course, that won’t be possible in the future. But I certainly hope that we will be able to continue with Time to Change here in Wales because I do believe that it’s an important programme and there is still work to be done in that area.

I welcome that and I look forward to confirmation of that in due course. The Office for National Statistics says that cases of depression have doubled during this pandemic and, this summer, this was said in The Lancet:

'As the economic consequences of lockdown develop, when furloughs turn to redundancies, mortgage holidays expire, and recession takes effect, we believe it is reasonable to expect not only sustained distress and clinically significant deterioration in mental health for some people, but emergence of well-described long-term effects of economic recession on mental health'.

Will the Minister commit to having a very specific recovery strategy for mental health in order to prevent this scenario as we come out of the period of pandemic?

Well, the first thing to do is to ensure that we have the necessary information. We’ve looked at what the World Health Organization have said on this issue and, of course, what we need to do is to put things in place so that we don’t see this huge increase, which is bound to happen, becoming something that is more difficult for us to deal with. So, swift intervention is crucially important and that’s why we’re not waiting to carry out a new assessment and to revamp the whole strategy—we are already making those changes, we are already intervening, already ensuring that there is more care available, and available at a low level. I think it’s important that we do work with the voluntary sector in this regard because, very often, people don’t want to go through their GP to access the help they need, and perhaps we can find alternative ways of providing that support and ensuring that it reaches the people who are suffering.

So, of course, we will be keeping a very close eye on those developments and, of course, at whether we need to review the plans that we have—we amended our plan in October, just before my appointment—and if we do need to look at it again, then we will.

Thank you very much, and I understand, given that she is new to the role, that it’s unfair perhaps to expect concrete proposals from the Minister, but it is clear that dealing with the impacts of the pandemic is going to take a huge amount of effort and also, I think, a radical change in the way in which we tackle mental health problems.

Many committee reports over the years have suggested that one of the main problems with mental health services is that people are often turned away because they are not considered to be in sufficient difficulty, and then those problems do get worse. Does the Minister acknowledge that, and how does she intend to change the way we deal with that and ensure earlier intervention?

Well, I think the first thing to say is that we must be careful not to look at mental health problems as simply being a health issue; it does relate to issues such as unemployment, relationship issues, debt problems. There are all sorts of contributing factors here, and that is why you can't simply put it in one box labelled 'health'. That's why the intervention has to be intervention that is cross-governmental, and I know that you, Rhun, would recognise that.

I am concerned if people are being turned away from assistance when they seek assistance in terms of mental health. I think what we need to be careful of is that we don't push people into a situation where we medicalise their problem. We need to ensure that we do offer that support at the lower level first and, if they need further assistance, that we do increase provision as we move forward. So, we must ensure that, for example, GPs do have the necessary resources and the routes to ensure that people are diverted to the assistance that they need, which isn't necessarily going to be medical in each case.