Group 14: Fire and rescue authorities (Amendments 142, 48, 49, 57)

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 8:39 pm on 10 November 2020.

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Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 8:39, 10 November 2020

I'm afraid I do reject amendment 142 and call on Members to do the same. FRA composition and other governance arrangements are set out in their combination Orders. For the most part, these Orders deal with matters of internal structure and procedure. They have nothing to do with firefighting or other front-line operations. Indeed, their terms could be applied almost verbatim to a body that did not provide fire and rescue services at all.

While it is possible to amend the combination Orders to improve governance and financial arrangements, we have agreed with the FRAs that we will not pursue these matters in this Senedd term. Nevertheless, there is no reason to hold a local public inquiry into proposals to amend combination Orders where that was desirable in the interests of good governance. For instance, the Orders currently require the chair of an FRA to hold office for only one year. Some might say that is too short a period and leads to unstable leadership. Allowing an FRA chair to serve for, say, two years would be a small step that would plainly not merit a public inquiry, yet that would be the effect of the law as it stands.

Public interest in these matters is often very low, but the requirement on the Welsh Ministers to fully consult on proposed changes to combination Orders will remain in place, as will the requirement to lay amendments to those Orders before the Senedd. Removing this additional and unnecessary requirement will simplify an overcomplicated and expensive process. No other public body has the power to consent to changes in their own governance arrangements, or force an inquiry if they do not. I am not convinced that FRAs should be a special case.

FRAs have argued that the current public inquiry provisions are in place for public safety purposes; I do not agree. The purpose of a combination Order is, as I say, to deal with matters of structure and governance, not of service delivery. The only possible exception would be changes to FRA boundaries. However, the requirement to hold a public inquiry will remain in place where proposed changes to the combination Orders would affect FRA boundaries. We have no interest in such proposals at this stage, but I feel it is important to maintain the safeguard. This was always the purpose of the requirement. It provides a mechanism for ensuring the public have an opportunity to influence decisions that affect the provision of front-line services. It was not to give FRAs a power to impede changes to their own governance arrangements.

Amendment 48 is a technical amendment to remove fire and rescue authorities in Wales from section 93 of the Local Government Act 2003. Section 93 of the 2003 Act provides relevant authorities with a power to charge for discretionary services. Fire and rescue authorities already have a power to charge a person for any action taken otherwise than for a commercial purpose, under section 18A of the Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004, and therefore they do not require the power under section 93.

Amendment 49 is minor technical amendment that will facilitate the repeal of the 2009 local government Measure and does not change the substantive effect of section 166. Amendment 57 is consequential to amendment 48 and provides that the provisions inserted by that amendment come into force two months after Royal Assent. Diolch.