4. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport: Llwybr Newydd — A New Wales Transport Strategy

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:28 pm on 17 November 2020.

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Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour 4:28, 17 November 2020

Thank you very much for those questions and for the offer of broad support, particularly for the principle of decarbonising transport. I agree this is a cross-party agenda and it will take multiple terms of the Senedd to implement, and I welcome her comments.

In terms of the legal underpinning, then, of course, the future generations Act underpins the approach we set out, among other pieces of legislation, but that is one that's been central, certainly to the way we've gone about the consultation about involving, co-operating and thinking long term, and collaborating with users and with others. So, that certainly has infused the approach we've taken.

On the question of physical accessibility and the involvement of disabled people, well, they certainly have been involved. There have been a number of sessions with equalities groups, and I think you will find when you read priority 1 in the consultation that it is very much reflecting the priorities of that sector—less, in a sense, a statement of the Government's position, more, really, a reflection of that. So we've chosen their framing to go out to consultation on. So, I think that does reflect the sincerity of our engagement with the sector.

The issue, really, of physical barriers to public transport does tie in with the question Helen Mary asks about bus connectivity as well, because that is about getting a loosely regulated private market to engage in public goods, which is difficult to do within the current legislative framework, for all the competition laws and impediments that will be very familiar to her and others in this Chamber, which is why we wanted to bring forward legislation in this term to put a strategic footing for public transport, which we haven't been able to because of COVID.

Now, through the terms and conditions we are setting for our bus support grants in responding to COVID—because, in effect, these bus companies would go bust without them—we have given significant financial support and we are requiring co-operation in return, and that includes, for some of those, particularly around the ability for us to co-ordinate. That's work in progress, and we still think there's a role for legislation, and we are preparing a piece of legislation for whoever forms the next Government to take that forward if they wish to. But we think the requirement for that is definitely there.

On her point on electric charging in rural areas, she is right: there is more that needs to be done. The UK Government have set out what they call the ultra-low emission vehicles, which is a decarbonised transport fund for electric vehicles, which is too modest currently, at around £29 million—it needs to be far more than that—and I think that is one of the things that we need to be looking at when it comes to the delivery plan, about how we prioritise our investment for that against other things.

Her final point on the perception of safety and the reality of safety, I think, is a really important one, and it goes to the heart of everything we do here, really, because perceptions of public transport are one of the impediments. We know from research that people think public transport takes longer to get to your destination than it actually does, people perceive it to be less safe than it actually is, and one of the behaviour change devices we need to see to make this work is to change people's perceptions by encouraging them to try public transport, to change their perceptions, and of course, in doing that, you have safety in numbers. The more people use active travel networks or public transport networks, the safer it feels and the safer it becomes. So, in a sense, this is a chicken-and-egg argument, and it's why the whole modal shift movement, which goes beyond decarbonising—we've talked in the past about decarbonising the transport system; well, that's essential, but modal shift goes beyond that, because it's saying, 'We'll have a greener powered electric system, but we need to get more people using it, and fewer people using individual cars.'