Item 7 on the agenda is a debate on the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee report, the 'Decarbonisation of transport', and I call on the Chair of the committee to move that motion, Russell George.

Motion NDM7494 Russell George

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee on its inquiry: Decarbonisation of Transport which was laid in the Table Office on 14 July 2020.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I do move the motion that's presented in my name.

This inquiry focused on whether the Welsh Government's emissions reduction targets for transport were realistic, and whether its decarbonisation plans were ambitious and innovative enough. We looked at technologies and the funding models available. It's important to also look, of course, as we did, at what inroads the Welsh Government was making, and identify gaps in advance of the consultation on the new transport strategy, which, of course, we hope to influence. We finished gathering evidence in January, well before the lockdown, and we reported in July, so our report does reflect issues in the early part of the pandemic.

The report recognised that not all is devolved, but has plenty of evidence about the levers within Welsh Government control. I'd also like to thank the Minister, Ken Skates, for providing us with a further update in November to his original response in August, again reflecting recent changes.

The report recognised the potential for a culture shift in people's travel behaviour following the March lockdown. September figures from the Department for Transport showed that motor vehicle use had recovered most rapidly, but bus and rail hadn't recovered at all well. So, there's still plenty of uncertainty and concern about the viability of the public transport network.

Welsh Government's legislative programme plans to give local authorities more flexibility over bus operations were, of course, thrown off course by the pandemic, but the Welsh Government and Transport for Wales now see the bus emergency scheme as the opportunity to influence decarbonisation efforts. Our report also asked how Welsh Government would align COVID-19 recovery funding with its decarbonisation agenda and capitalise on the benefits. I look forward to further detail, as promised, as we go into 2021.

The report set out evidence about possible funding mechanisms, and we supported the future generations commissioner's call for more clarity on how the Welsh Government's budget supports decarbonisation. The high capital cost of investing in electric vehicles is a real barrier for bus operators and local authorities, with more Government support needed, so we asked what consideration the Welsh Government had given to retrofitting diesel buses over buying new electric ones, which some had proposed, but again with some disadvantage. So, we welcome the support plan being developed to help achieve the 2028 target for electric fleets.

We also asked, Deputy Presiding Officer, for assurances about the charging infrastructure and energy network capacity to go electric, and to sustainably recycle electric batteries. The Welsh Government has published its strategy on electric vehicle charging today, as it happens, so I've already had a quick look at that, but I'll be pleased to look at that in more detail. But there is a view that Government should help fill the gaps that the market can't or won't fill, such as, particularly, of course, rural areas. When we discussed the Wales transport strategy in Plenary just a couple of weeks ago, the Deputy Minister said that priority of investment decisions would be looked at as part of that delivery plan.

The community transport and taxi and private hire sector said that they needed more support to decarbonise, and the response to recommendation 6 recognises the importance of supporting the community transport sector. We welcome the Government's continued efforts to find ways to support taxi drivers, including the 'try before you buy' pilots for green taxis, and we look forward to the promised further update in March of next year. 

We supported the Low Carbon Vehicle Partnership calling for a UK-wide approach to defining vehicle standards to help encourage investment in new technology, and we also welcomed the Welsh Government's commitment to keep us updated on developments in that regard.

On modal shift, it was good to see COVID-19 funding for local measures to encourage more active travel, but detailed plans, I certainly think, are now needed to manage and meet demand on the public transport network for the longer term. And while the chief executive of Transport for Wales, who spoke to committee a fortnight ago, said he was quite bullish about future revenue generation on the rail network and the opportunities to better join up bus and rail, which was positive to hear, the committee will be examining the pros and cons of the Government's ambition for 30 per cent of Welsh workers to continue working remotely. Certainly, we've had some challenges on committee with some Members finding that more difficult than others, but it certainly doesn't work for everyone. As I say, we found that out as a committee, but we did see some short-term benefits of the enforced reduction in car use, such as improved air quality. 

Finally, our report identified some gaps in the Welsh Government's decarbonisation plans to the freight sector, and the role that Cardiff Airport should play, in our view. So, it is encouraging that there will be mini plans produced for the different transport sectors and transport modes to deliver the new transport strategy. I look forward, Deputy Presiding Officer, to hearing the views of colleagues around the Chamber and, of course, the Deputy Minister, who I believe is responding to the Senedd today. And I, of course, commend this report to the Senedd. 

Thank you. Huw Irranca-Davies. 

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I didn't expect to be called so soon, but I'm delighted to contribute right at the outset. First of all, can I thank Russell and the committee members—

I could always call somebody else. 

No, don't do that; don't think twice about this. Delighted with the report and the wide-ranging recommendations, some of which I'll turn to in a moment, but I also want to go a bit further as well and see what the committee thinks, what Russell thinks, and also the Minister on some other proposals as well to do with decarbonisation in Wales. 

First of all, delighted to see the proposals around recommendation 3, around pop-up measures and the support for those adaptations to promote active travel. Russell and I are both members of the active travel group, and it's been interesting to see those innovations not just in the well-publicised ones in Cardiff, but including in places like Bridgend and elsewhere. I'd be interested in the thoughts of the committee going forward in how those can not only be embedded, but they can also form part of work going forward, where, increasingly, we can pilot temporary ideas of pop-up measures, not to do with COVID, but simply to see if they work in our different environments and different communities. If they do work and if they're popular, then keep them. This is what they do in Sweden. This is what they're doing elsewhere. They try these things, and if people like them and go, 'Do you know? We quite like a quieter environment around the shops. We quite like the idea that we can walk and cycle rather than have traffic fumes everywhere', then they say, 'Right, we'll now make them stay.' So, I like recommendation 3, but I think we might even be able to go further. 

On recommendations 11 and 12 on freight, really welcome the focus you've brought to that, Russell and the committee. I'm interested whether or not you looked at the potential of the south Wales railway line to actually really shift some freight onto that, and particularly in terms of delivery in and out of city centres, you know, this last mile thing. Now, that would require some significant investment in depos of old style, where you could actually offload at ports, you could bring stuff down the rail, and then you drive that last mile or two, or you put it onto whatever sort of transport to get it into the city centres. There is real scope and there is expertise in the rail industry to deliver this. I'd like to see Welsh Government thinking about that as part of its decarbonisation going forward, and perhaps setting the standard within Wales for what we could do with pushing freight onto rail. It sounds like an old Victorian approach—actually not. You can now do it with pallet deliveries, where they're straight roll-on, roll-off, the same as they are at ports.

But the thing I really want to touch on is the recommendations 14 and 15 around Cardiff Airport. Now, let me say, right at the outset, I'm a big supporter of Cardiff Airport, I'm a big supporter of actually having investment into not just the airport, but having people from Wales, and particularly south and mid Wales, and from Bristol, flying from that airport. But we do also have to deal, even though it's not a devolved issue, with decarbonisation of aviation. We really have to do it. And I'd just be interested in testing the committee's thoughts, Russell's thoughts, Ministers' thoughts on where we go with this. Now, there's plenty of talk about sustainable aviation. I used to lecture on it 20 years ago. We've been talking about this for years—sustainable aviation fuel, more economic flights et cetera, et cetera. Slowly, gradually, the technology is moving onwards, but at a very slow place. And, in fact, this year, on sustainable aviation fuel itself, it took a step backwards, in the year that we are approaching COP26. But I think we should be looking at other ideas. 

We know, from a recent report that came out, that 1 per cent of the super wealthy—the super, super, super wealthy—in the world, actually fly half of the flights, contribute half of the emissions of aviation. This isn't somebody outside my office, living in a flat above the shops, going on one flight a year to Malaga. These are people who are doing the equivalent of three long-haul flights a year, or one short-haul flight every single month of the year. Now, we have to think about this and how we use Cardiff Airport to actually say to people, 'Yes, let's do the equality issues for this as well, so, if you need your short hop flight, that's the place to go. If you need your long one, once every while—.' But I think I'd be interested in the Welsh Government's position, running up to COP26, on where we are on things like levies for those super-duper travellers who just spend money like there's no tomorrow and also burn up our emissions as well. 

Finally, I would say, in welcoming this report, and looking forward to the Government's report, I think we've just seen a real good example of decarbonisation in practice, because the Government's response to the Burns proposals have not said, 'Build more roads', they've said, 'Shift the modal shift off there; let's throw the money at other things and encourage people', like me, 'not to use their cars, but to travel by other means.' Diolch yn fawr iawn, Russell, and everybody who's contributed. It's a good report. 

Though not a member of the committee, I wanted to say a few words, as I think the issues raised in the report are of interest to all of us. Business here in this Chamber is, of course, at the moment, COVID-centric, understandably so, and combating the pandemic may be the immediate concern. But, beyond the pandemic, over the longer term, tackling climate change remains a key challenge, arguably the key challenge of our age, and decarbonisation must be at the heart of this. 

The first recommendation in the report highlights a need for greater capacity in the energy network, if we're to meet the ambition of switching to electric vehicles over the next couple of decades. Electric vehicles are more efficient and cleaner, as we know, but they do, of course, need electricity to run on, rather than petrol or diesel, and that has to be generated somehow, preferably from renewables, to avoid us simply shifting the emission problem from our towns and cities on to power stations. 

And, then, of course, we come back to the age-old question of the electric charging infrastructure, which we discuss over and over again in this Chamber and outside. That's identified in recommendation 2. Clearly, the current infrastructure is inadequate for the current electric car fleet in Wales, let alone fit for purpose for future expansion. We really do need to see a step change in the delivery of the charging infrastructure, and that's going to require cross-portfolio working, including changes to the planning system.

Only a couple of years ago, a planning application for an innovative electric vehicle charging station adjacent to the A40 in Monmouth, in my constituency, was rejected on the basis of breaching technical advice note 15 guidelines on flooding. Now, I appreciate that there's good thought behind many of these guidelines, but, at the same time, we need to ensure that there's flexibility in the system if we're going to have any hope of reaching the kind of number of charging stations that we need. 

And it's not just about cars. Turning to buses, the Confederation of Passenger Transport UK has suggested that the emission targets for buses are extremely high—too high—and not achievable without considerable investment. They ask, 'Where are the costings? Where's the detail?' As the Green Alliance has said, the cost-effectiveness of electrifying the bus fleet and the associated infrastructure at the depot is dependent on an upward trend in bus usage—a trend that certainly isn't there at the moment during the pandemic, and arguably wasn't there in the run up to it either. So, there are complicating factors for the bus industry as well.

I notice on page 30 of the report that James Price, for Transport for Wales, has said that transport modelling and the integration agenda are key to resolving all these issues. Well, again, integration in the public transport system is something that we've been talking about for as long as I can remember in this Chamber. It's a great idea in principle. I remember back to when James Price came to the—when I was Chair of the Enterprise and Business Committee in the last Assembly, and he came along, and I can't remember which witness it was, but one of them said that integration is a great idea in principle, but devilishly difficult to achieve in practice. Well, here we are, some years on from that, and we still haven't achieved that integration, that Oyster-type system that they have in London, that we were looking at here once. Hopefully, one day, we will achieve integration. It's clear from reading this report that that is essential, vital, and part of the answer in delivering decarbonisation and solving the climate change problem.

So, in conclusion, Dirprwy Lywydd, we must strive for integration, along with electrification of private and public transport—key to decarbonisation. I'm delighted that this report was brought to this Chamber today and I want to thank the Chair of the committee and the committee for the work they've done on this. It's been an interesting read as a non-member of the committee. There's a lot of interesting stuff in here, which must be pushed forward if we're to meet our goals, meet UK and Welsh Government targets, and bring to fruition a cleaner, greener and more sustainable future.

I wasn't a member of the committee when evidence was taken for this report, so I've really enjoyed reading the work and discussing informally with colleagues, and it certainly is an impressive piece of work, challenging Welsh Government where it needs to be challenged, but supporting it too where the committee felt that they were heading in the right direction.

I don't want to repeat comments that others have made, Dirprwy Lywydd, I just want to highlight a couple of issues. I want to come back to the points that have already been touched on briefly about electric vehicle charging points. Now, I know that the Deputy Minister will say—or I imagine he'll say, and he'd be quite right—that of course we need to achieve modal shift. We don't want to replace a whole fleet of diesel- and petrol-powered cars with people still using electric cars to the same extent. But there will always be either people's individual circumstances, or communities where running public transport on a large scale—you know, much of the area of Mid and West Wales that I represent, that's not going to be feasible. And I do have some frustration about the slowness with which we've rolled out the electric charging points. There are lots of people I know in the region that I represent who would love to be able to consider an electric vehicle and they just can't, because there's nowhere within the journeys that they travel where they can charge it other than at home.

So, we have a lot of work to do there, and I think it is important that that's not at the expense of investing in public transport and investing in modal shift, but it is still an important part of the decarbonisation agenda. Because, as the Deputy Minister has said a couple of times in the Chamber recently, we perhaps in the past have maybe underestimated the importance of decarbonising transport, and I'd certainly agree with him there that it's not necessarily the first thing that anybody thinks about when they think about the green agenda, but, of course, it is enormously important.

I would just comment briefly on the integration agenda. Nick Ramsay is right to say that we've been talking about this for years, but I would also put it to him that it's the legislative structure around buses and rail that's kept them in the private sector that has actually made some of that integration really difficult to achieve. And the next Welsh Government, whoever forms it, will have to give some serious thought to going back to the bus legislation and possibly going further—obviously, that legislation couldn't proceed because of COVID, but possibly going back to that legislation, possibly taking an even more clear approach. Because the Government at the moment is looking to use contracting with private companies to promote integration, but, in the end, there is that ongoing risk that, if they're not making enough of a profit, they'll walk away. And if we look at successful integrated systems, particularly on the continent of Europe, those are usually public sector. So, we have to acknowledge that that lack of progress on integration may not be the fault of successive Welsh Governments alone; it's the fault of the framework within which they work.

I want to return to a point that was briefly touched upon by Russell George, and that's some of the work of the future generations commissioner's 10-point plan on the climate emergency, which talked about how the Welsh Government should be investing in sustainable transport, including the decarbonisation agenda. She puts forward strongly, and I would concur, that we really need to be able to see—. To be able to successfully scrutinise the Welsh Government on this agenda, we need to be able to see how the money is being spent. If decarbonisation is a priority, how are Welsh Government actions, particularly the budget—how is that following that agenda?

Now, I wouldn't ask the Deputy Minister to be responsible for the whole of the Welsh Government budget, because that wouldn't be fair, but I would like to ask him today to what extent, within the economy and transport budget, are the Government able, at this stage, to track their spending against the green agenda and the decarbonisation agenda more broadly. Is there anything further that needs to be done to make that happen? Is there further advice that he needs to seek? 

Because we do—. Deputy Presiding Officer, in Welsh we have a saying, 'Diwedd y gân yw'r geiniog'—at the end of every song there's always the penny—and we say, don't we, 'Follow the money'? We can talk about what we think is important, but, in terms of public spending and where the money actually goes, I think it's really important for a successor committee to the economy and transport committee to be able to see, when it looks at the budget, how the budgeting is matching the Government's ambitions when it comes, in the case of today's discussion, to the decarbonisation of transport, but more broadly around the green agenda.

So, I'd like, once again, to thank the members of the committee that did take the evidence and to thank the Chair and all of the staff—a really important piece of work and I look forward to the other contributions to the debate, and particularly to hearing what the Deputy Minister has to say.

First, can I congratulate the committee on an excellent report? It really is an in-depth study that includes many positive suggestions. Can I also acknowledge the Government's entirely positive response to the report? It must be one of the first Government responses to a report I've seen that doesn't have an 'accept in principle' in it. 

Given the Welsh Government's commitment to a carbon-free Wales, the content of the report is particularly important if this is to be achieved in the timescale envisaged. It does, of course, raise many questions—as many questions as answers—but it does give a road map as to what has to be done to achieve the Government's aims, because transport, in all its forms, will play a critical role in creating a carbon-free economy.

Given the comprehensive nature of the report, I shall confine myself to certain aspects of the conclusions outlined in it. First, if we are to increase exponentially the use of electric cars, we have to put in place, first, the grid capacity to accommodate the huge surge in demand for electricity that will inevitably take place as the number of electric vehicles grows. Secondly, we have to roll out the charging facilities available across the country—this has been mentioned several times by other Members in this debate. This is, of course, a chicken-and-egg scenario, in that we have to provide the facilities to entice people to take up EVs, even if the facilities may not be fully used for some time. I would envisage that the private sector would be involved in this roll-out. Could the Minister give us some indication as to how this roll-out is progressing?

The crucial element outlined in the report is that we will not be able to achieve the modal shift necessary unless we have the facilities and infrastructure in place to entice the population to abandon the car. It has to be said that the Welsh Government have made considerable strides in enhancing the public transport offer over the last few years, but, of course, COVID has disrupted the take-up of the increased capacity. I know we are all encouraged by the metro plans and the Government's determination to make connectivity between the various modes of transport as seamless as possible. Could the Minister outline any progress being made with regard to multi-modal ticketing facilities?

Lastly, can I address the need to perhaps fundamentally change the provision of bus facilities, given that they are by far the biggest transporters of people? The use of 50-plus seater buses to carry just a few passengers in off-peak periods has to change. Bus operators must be encouraged to replace the large fleets of such buses for a much more mixed offer—that is, a greater acquisition and use of smaller vehicles. The transition from diesel to electric should give them the opportunity to effect these changes. So, could the Minister outline the Government's plans to effect this modal change? Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd.

This important report by the Senedd/Welsh Parliament's committee is as important as it is timely. The urgent matters affecting our globe remain with us, in addition to and not outside the COVID, and the climate emergency remains with us. Carbon cuts need to happen, and they need to happen rapidly. Again a dire warning has come from the United Nations, and the United Nations Secretary General, António Guterres, is urging people around the world to stop waging what he calls 'a suicidal war' on nature, as do so many globally recognised eminent scientists, agencies and influencers, such as Greta Thunberg and our very own Ella Daish, long campaigning to change Tampax and others to switch to non-plastic sanitary products.

These latest warnings come as the World Meteorological Organization states that this year will be one of the third hottest on record, just behind 2016 and 2019. And despite all the pollution haltage of COVID, still global warming is rising. The six-year quartile from 2015 to now will be the warmest on record since 1850. And 2020 has seen the most serious impacts of this warming in the UK, with the deadly floods in February, the warmest spring on record, with a record 30 named storms having ravaged, including the wild fires destroying communities across the US and Australia.

So, it is right to see the Senedd's Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee tackle this topic of decarbonisation of transport, and it is heartening too to see the Welsh Labour Government's positive response to the report's recommendations and its actions already on the record. In particular, I was struck by recommendation 3, which strongly calls to discourage private car use. Members will be cognisant that only a few weeks ago we received the final recommendations, 'One region, one network, one ticket', from the South East Wales Transport Commission, led by Lord Burns.

The creation of a direct railway service between Ebbw Vale and Newport is an issue I have campaigned for in this Senedd since 2016, and I am very glad to see that it will be realised now, in our efforts to provide alternative means of modal transport. The Burns report recommends completing the upgrade of the Ebbw Vale line, including the branch to a new station at Abertillery, as already proposed by Welsh Government, to allow for four trains per hour along the line and to provide services directly to Newport. And it is practical measures such as these that will serve my constituents well in Islwyn, in the railway towns of Crosskeys, Risca and Newbridge.

But there is still very much to do, and although a critical journey has begun, this committee report is a welcome further station to our destination, and what this Senedd ambitiously wants now, including former carbon deniers, and that is a carbon-neutral future for our future generations. Thank you.

Thank you. Can I now call on the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport, Lee Waters? 

Thank you very much, and can I thank Members and the committee for the debate and the report? The coronavirus pandemic provides a powerful reminder that we are still vulnerable to nature, and it also serves to demonstrate that the way we treat the natural world has the potential to impact on each of us, in a very visceral and personal way too.

Arguably, climate change represents a greater threat than the pandemic, albeit over longer timescales, and tackling climate change is hugely important to this Government, and we've already made bold, early strides in declaring a climate emergency and in setting targets for decarbonisation. Transport in particular has a big role to play in getting us on to a lower carbon path, and I appreciate the challenge and the scrutiny of the report, and we're going to need more of it if, collectively, we are going to confront the challenges that decarbonising the transport system presents, and it will take years of effort.

Fortunately, it's not all doom and gloom—there are opportunities here too. The UK Committee on Climate Change predict that transitioning to a zero-emission technology base across all transport modes will actually save, not cost money—more than £200 million between now and 2050 in Wales alone. And the UK Committee on Climate Change have indicated that Wales is on track to meet the emission target set out in our very first low-carbon delivery plan. We're now developing the second iteration of this plan, which we'll publish next year to coincide with COP26, and we need to make better progress in transport meeting its share.

Helen Mary Jones rightly challenged us to demonstrate how we are tracking our carbon budgets with the decarbonisation targets that we have set ourselves, and I think that is the right challenge. We have commissioned, as part of the Wales transport strategy work, Arup and Transport for Quality of Life to come up with a detailed analysis of what contribution transport must make to our overall targets, so that when we make decisions about individual road schemes, for example, or other transport interventions, we're able to know how much headroom we have within the targets that we have set, so we can make informed judgments, which currently we are not able to make. I think that will be a very important step forward for future transport Ministers to be able to inform them in their decisions.

We've also published our ambitions and targets on electric vehicle charging and our clean air plan. These strategies and plans set the framework for delivery over the coming years and we have made a reasonable start, allocating funding this year from the ultra low emission vehicle transformation fund to support 34 rapid charging points for taxis and private hire vehicles in the Cardiff city region; Wales's first rapid charging hub at Cross Hands in Carmarthenshire; charging points in Anglesey; and electric buses in Cardiff and Newport. These are modest first steps but important ones nonetheless.

And whilst very significant further investment will be required to deliver decarbonisation, some elements of behaviour change will be necessary too, and that will require difficult political choices and strong leadership, not just at a Government level but at a local level too. And Members of the Senedd in their own local leadership roles need to show the courage and leadership to make these decisions too. For example, what role might road-user charging play? As we made clear just two weeks ago, the Welsh Government has no fixed view on this yet, but we do have a responsibility to consider how it might be used to effect behaviour change in a fair, in a just way. The evidence shows that we need both carrot and stick to achieve the changes that we will require.

We should also be mindful of the UK Government's role and the levers they retain. For example, control over Wales's rail infrastructure, certain reserved regulatory powers, and powers to set incentives for electric vehicles, and we await publication of their first transport decarbonisation plan in the new year. The recent Wales Climate Week demonstrated our continued commitment to responding to the climate crisis with a collaborative approach, and we'll continue to work closely with the UK Government to ensure that policy outcomes work for Wales.

We do stand at an important moment, Dirprwy Lywydd. Tackling climate change will be the defining challenge of our generation and Wales has a great opportunity to be a leader in this. To capitalise on this, we need to act quickly and increasingly concentrate our efforts on decarbonisation, and stop thinking about what we can do by 2050 and think what more we can do now. The arguments to do are simple: decarbonisation, it's not a case of if, it's a case of when. The faster we act, the lesser the impact will be and the greater the benefits, and I'd strongly encourage the committee to keep pushing us. Diolch.

Thank you. I have no Member who's indicated they want to make an intervention, and therefore I'll call on Russell George to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I thank the Members who have taken part today? I think there was quite a bit of discussion in terms of climate change in the main—I think Nick Ramsay and Rhianon Passmore in particular. And, interestingly, the UN Secretary-General made a statement on this today with regard to the importance of the UN's work in this important area.

I thank Huw Irranca-Davies for his contribution. I thank him for his work as the chair of the cross-party group on active travel. I very much listened to his ideas. I welcome the proposal he made in terms of testing active travel projects; I think, of course, that is welcome as well. We didn't look into freight in any detail, Huw, I would say in that regard, but outside committee I've done work around that myself—I've taken a particular interest in that area. But I think in that particular instance, I think perhaps Welsh Government can set out its thoughts in terms of its low-carbon budget plan. And then there are the low-carbon flights that Huw Irranca-Davies mentioned as well. We didn't take evidence on that either in this particular piece of work, but we have taken evidence on that since, in work in terms of the COVID recovery. What we have heard is that Wales is in a good place in terms of being able to take a positive lead on hydrogen aircraft, but that will need, of course, big investment, but I think this can certainly be part of wider COVID recovery.

Helen Mary Jones pointed out about Welsh Government going further on bus legislation and support and integration. I think, of course, now this is going to be for the next Welsh Government to clearly take forward. And, of course, it's relevant as well for each party represented in the Senedd to consider their own party manifestos. But I've made a note, because I think it's important that we look at that in terms of our legacy report, and making those recommendations for a future committee to do further work on.

David Rowlands referenced the grid capacity, and that's something that we did look at in committee, and something I take an interest in myself. What else have we got here? I thank the Deputy Minister for his comments. I can say that, you know, again he missed the point about the progress that the Government has made, and I suppose I'd point out that committee will keep challenging Government in that regard.

In terms of the rest of the other points made, can I thank all those who did contribute to our debate? I thank, of course, all those that gave evidence—written evidence and oral evidence—to our inquiry. Can I thank the committee team—the clerking team and the integrated team—for all their support as well? I think decarbonisation is a challenge that Governments around the world are grappling with, and I think perhaps the pandemic has created both opportunities and challenges in this regard, with the increase in telecommuting, but also the need to reassure people that public transport is safe—I think that's probably perhaps the challenge ahead. But the formation of the new Wales transport strategy and delivery plans, I think, presents an opportunity to lock in some of the benefits from what continues to be an increasingly difficult situation. So, can I thank all those who have taken part, and those who contributed to our piece of work? Diolch yn fawr. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.

Thank you. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? I don't see any objections, therefore the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

We are now going to suspend proceedings to allow changeovers in the Chamber. If you are leaving the Chamber, can you do so promptly? The bell will be rung two minutes before proceedings restart, and Members are asked to wait until that bell is rung before entering the Chamber. So, we now suspend for a break.

Plenary was suspended at 16:58.

The Senedd reconvened at 17:06, with the Llywydd in the Chair.