Emergency Question: COVID-19 Restrictions

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 1:46 pm on 16 December 2020.

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Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:46, 16 December 2020

The leader of Plaid Cymru asked me, 'Why wait?' Well, because we are, as ever, balancing many different types of harm. Practically the only thing that we could do today that we are not doing until Christmas Eve is to close all non-essential retail. Of course, we have looked very carefully at whether we should do that now, but he will know that for so many firms in Wales, this trading period up to Christmas is the most important couple of weeks in the whole of the calendar year.

We are balancing harms to the economy, as we balance harms to health. We are balancing issues of equality as well; the poorer you are, the closer to Christmas you go out and buy things because you have to wait to know how much money you've got in your pocket to do that. We could close non-essential retail today and those people who are fortunate enough to have had money already, or who can easily buy things on-line, would find ways around it and those families who are already the most disadvantaged in Wales would find themselves further disadvantaged again. There are a series of different harms that you are forever having to balance. Our view is that the balance that we have struck, being clear that immediately after Christmas there will be significant new restrictions because of the health harms that we face, together with the things that we are doing in the period up to Christmas, strikes the best balance that we can find.

The leader of Plaid Cymru asked me why particularly did we not introduce those changes in areas of highest infection. Well, the answer is they simply wouldn't be effective. To close non-essential retail in some parts of Wales is no guarantee at all that people would not then make their way to other parts of Wales where shops are open. It simply would not be an effective measure to take and it would be a gesture without an impact. I don't think we want to be in that territory. Having asked me why I didn't do more in some areas, he asked me why I didn't do less in others, and the answer to that is that we continue to have strong advice that national measures—single messages conveyed everywhere in the clearest way we can—have the most opportunity to be observed and therefore to be effective. I will not offer a lower level of protection for some parts of Wales than others while I believe that that would save people's lives.

And while it is true that at the moment—at the moment—things are not as bad in Gwynedd and Ynys Môn as they were in those counties just a couple of weeks ago, and as bad as their neighbours find themselves, I do not feel that we have as yet a reliable pattern, and a pattern that gives us confidence, that those areas will continue to be at those lower levels into the future so that you would be prepared to offer them a lower level of protection. What has happened in London over the last few days has borne out everything that the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies has told us: that lower levels of protection simply lead to higher levels of infection in the future. I don't want to see that happen in any part of Wales. As I said to Paul Davies, however, if a genuine, reliable and sustainable pattern of differentiation were to establish itself, then the review period at the end of three weeks will allow us to attend to that, and the plan we published on Monday gives us a path to regional differentiation. We are not in that position today; it would not be in the interests of the communities that Adam Price pointed to.

Llywydd, I'm not responsible for the Prime Minister's unfortunate views, and there is no mixed message here in Wales. The message that I have been giving I repeat now: the position in Wales is so serious that over the Christmas period, only two households should think of coming together in the single extended household we already have. We will, for those five days, allow a single-person household to join with that extended household, but that is the full extent of household mixing that we should see here in Wales. We agreed in the four-nation meeting today a strengthened set of messages that will apply in every part of the United Kingdom. We also agreed that it was essential that we were still able to respond to the different patterns that we see across the four nations. I am fully signed up to the joint statement that we will make as four nations this afternoon, and I am fully signed up to the message that I have been giving throughout the last hour and a half that here in Wales, two households only should come together.

Adam Price points to the fact that we have had changing patterns of coronavirus here in Wales and that we've had to respond to them. I don't agree with him that most people in Wales would have regarded the terms on which we came out of our firebreak as liberal; only two households in Wales have been able to meet together, only four people have been able to meet together in any outdoor venue. Those are extraordinary restrictions on people's normal ability to meet with one another and they've been in place here in Wales ever since the firebreak ended. Of course, we are all having to calibrate our response to the changing pattern we see. It's only a week ago that the leader of Plaid Cymru was urging me to keep pubs open for longer and complaining that I wasn't allowing for alcohol to be served. Today, he recognises the different position that we are in in Wales. All of us are having to think about the response we make because the virus changes in front of us every day, and the impact it makes on our public services changes as well.

I thank the leader of Plaid Cymru for what he said about the document we published on Monday; it was intended to provide greater clarity for people about the pathways that exist between the different levels of intervention we need here in Wales. We have had to say today that the detail that that document provides on level 4 restrictions will come into place in Wales immediately after Christmas, but it also sets out for people how things can be different in the future. When conditions allow, we will move from those very severe restrictions and necessary restrictions in the post-Christmas period to a different future, and in doing so, I believe we will continue to have the solid support of the vast majority of people here in Wales.