Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd at 1:49 pm on 26 January 2021.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:49, 26 January 2021

(Translated)

Questions now from the party leaders. Plaid Cymru leader, Adam Price. 

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, in September 2019 I asked you to set out the anticipated responsibilities of the new child poverty review lead. Can you update the Senedd on the key findings resulting from their work?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

Well, Llywydd, a great deal has happened since the Member asked me that question, in particular the intervention of a global pandemic crisis. In the crisis, the whole Cabinet has taken a direct interest in dealing with child poverty here in Wales, focusing on those practical actions that we are able to take that leaves money in the pockets of families that otherwise would be taken away from it or to add money to their weekly incomes. That is a whole-Government responsibility. It is led by my colleague Julie James, but right across the Government we have mobilised the responsibilities that we have and the budgets that we have to offer the practical help that we are able to provide here in Wales.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 1:50, 26 January 2021

Organisations working in this field in Wales have called for you to publish the findings of the child poverty review, and it's regrettable they're only now being made public as a result of a freedom of information request. They are, however, very revealing. Not only are they contrary to your own Government's policy, they're in line with what we in Plaid Cymru and others have been advocating. The report highlights, and I quote, that 'many of those in need' are not eligible currently for free school meals, and its central finding, as it goes on to say, is that:

'The most common suggestion was the need to expand eligibility for FSM to a wider range of children and young people.'

First Minister, why do you keep on resisting this recommendation?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:51, 26 January 2021

Well, we don't resist the recommendation. Llywydd, the changes that we have made to free school meals eligibility will result in thousands more children in Wales being able to take up free school meals than was the case under the previous eligibility regime. So, it is simply untrue to say that we have not take account of what the Member quite fairly quoted as not being Government policy, but our account of the suggestions that were made to us during the review. Now, the review was concluded before the global pandemic began. In November of last year, we published our child poverty income maximisation action plan. It was part of that plan that led us to invest an additional £52 million in free school meals in the current financial year to ensure the continued provision of free school meals during school holidays here in Wales. It's a very direct response to the comments that were collected during the review.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 1:52, 26 January 2021

Of course, the actions that have been taken now during the pandemic are welcome, but the children's commissioner has made the point that we do need to see the review, which is looking at what can be done beyond the immediate, turned into a concrete plan of action. Many people working in this field are pointing out that Wales has the least generous provision for free school meals across the UK. Your Government's policy, as the child poverty action group has pointed out, means that 70,000 children living below the poverty line in Wales are currently excluded, and that's why we in Plaid Cymru, alongside many of those that responded to this review—charities, young people, local authorities—have made the case for immediately extending free school meals to any child in any family receiving universal credit or equivalent benefit. We know you've done the costings on that, First Minister, because you told us last week, but what is the long-term cost of allowing child poverty to persist? The children of Wales will be a priority in our manifesto—can you say the same, First Minister?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:53, 26 January 2021

Llywydd, it's plainly nonsensical to suggest that our approach to free school meals is the least generous in the United Kingdom. We were the very first Government in the United Kingdom to guarantee free school meals during school holidays. We've seen the way in which the UK Government was dragged kicking and screaming to the same position as a result of campaigns, campaigns citing the actions that the Welsh Government had taken back in the autumn. I've had an opportunity to discuss directly with the children's commissioner the reports that she herself has provided on, for example, the costs of the school day, including free school meals. Our income maximisation action plan draws very heavily on the recommendations of the commissioner. It's why we have doubled and doubled again the number of times during a young person's school career that a child can draw down what used to be called the school uniform grant and which now, of course, is able to be used for a far wider range of purposes. Those are the practical actions that we can take, and, when this Government says that we will do something, we will make sure that it is practical, deliverable and affordable, and those are obligations that I think fall on any party that seeks to be part of Government. I look forward to his party being able to explain not simply how they're going to provide free school meals for any child in any family on universal credit, but alongside everything else that his party claims to be able to deliver. Then people will know that they are being made a responsible offer, not an offer simply designed to attract a headline.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:55, 26 January 2021

(Translated)

Leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative

Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, last week there was much focus on the target of having 70 per cent of over-80-year-olds vaccinated. I heard your response to an earlier question this afternoon, but I think it is very, very important that we know quite clearly whether you've hit that target or not. You said last week that you will have day-to-day information in your possession that could give you an up-to-date picture. The health Minister wasn't able to confirm that yesterday at the press conference, but can you give us a simple response today, please? Have you hit the target of vaccinating 70 per cent of over-80-year-olds in Wales?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:56, 26 January 2021

Well, Llywydd, I've already given an answer to that question this afternoon. I know there was a lot of focus last week on other things as well, but the Member just needs to listen and then he would know that his question has already been answered. The data is still coming in, but the figures we have show 72 per cent of people living and working in care homes have already been vaccinated. That's not just offered vaccination—that's already been vaccinated. We will not reach the 70 per cent for over-80s because of the interruption to the programme of vaccination that happened on Sunday and on Monday morning. I won't have people over 80 feeling pressurised to come out to be vaccinated when they themselves decide that it is not safe for them to do so. All of those people will have been offered a further opportunity to be vaccinated by the end of Wednesday. We are on track to deliver what we said we would, which is to have made an offer of vaccination to everybody in the top four priority groups by the middle of February.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 1:57, 26 January 2021

You have not met your commitment, First Minister. Last week, you said quite clearly, and your health Minister said quite clearly—that was information offered by you as a Government—that everyone over the age of 80, 70 per cent of that cohort, would be vaccinated by the end of the week. I heard loud and clear what the response was, but you didn't give a clear answer. You have cleared that up—you've missed your target. That's straightforward; people understand that. Yesterday, for example, I could tell that the UK Government have four out of five 80-year-olds vaccinated—80 per cent. They've hit their target. What we're seeing constantly is targets being missed by your Government, and we're seeing the opening of a postcode lottery here in Wales. Last Friday, for example, there was a surgery in Barry that had 350 over-80-year-olds on their books, but only 50 individuals had been offered the vaccine and had been administered the shots. That clearly shows that, in some areas, there is a difference of administration and of availability of the vaccine, whilst in other areas the health Minister was talking about over-70-year-olds being called for the vaccination. Can you confirm what measures you are taking to catch up with the roll-out of the vaccine and, ultimately, make sure that a postcode lottery doesn't emerge across Wales?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:58, 26 January 2021

Well, really, Llywydd, the Member's going to have to do better than that. Here he is again in his resumed responsibilities. There is no postcode lottery here in Wales; there is an enormous effort in every single part of Wales, right across the health service, to vaccinate as many people as quickly and as safely as possible. The figures from last week demonstrate just how successful that effort has been. Instead of sniping from the sidelines, those people would appreciate just a little bit of support from the Member instead of the undermining of their efforts, which, of course, has been his key characteristic throughout the coronavirus crisis.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 1:59, 26 January 2021

Well, again, the First Minister doesn't look at the facts that are before him. Everything I've quoted him today are facts—about the Government's own commitment about 70 per cent of over-80-year-olds being vaccinated by the end of the week; the fact that that surgery in Barry identified that 350 people on their books over 80 and only 50 have been administered the shots; the difference between England and Wales—there are now 50,000 more people vaccinated in England, as a proportion of population, than in Wales. That's equivalent to the town of Barry. There is a level of urgency required in the roll-out of this vaccine. You yourself are on the record of talking of it not being a sprint. The people of Wales want to know that the speed and the roll-out are catching up with other parts of the United Kingdom, and when you set yourself a target, you hit the target. I've dealt in facts today; you've constantly tried to deflect from that, First Minister. It would be far better if, when you made a commitment, you stuck to it. So, what are you doing to close that population gap that has opened up with England of 50,000 people? As I said, that is a town the size of Barry being vaccinated, and that is of critical importance, First Minister.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:00, 26 January 2021

Let me give the Member a few facts. On Tuesday of last week, we had succeeded in vaccinating 162,000 people in Wales. This Tuesday, that has risen to 290,000 people. That's the fastest rate of increase of any part of the United Kingdom. Last Monday, we vaccinated 10,000 people; this Monday, we vaccinated nearly 20,000 people. That is the speed of the roll-out here in Wales—a speed that is urgent, a speed that is dedicated, a speed that is succeeding. He may want to run it down. He leads a Conservative party in Wales that has reverted to its nineteenth-century type: for Wales, see England. It's not good enough, it doesn't wash and he's going to have to do better than that.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:01, 26 January 2021

(Translated)

Question 3, Mark Isherwood.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd. Am I on? Yes.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

Yes, you are. Carry on.