The next item is a debate on the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee report, 'Turn up the volume: an inquiry into the live music industry', and I call on the committee Chair to move the motion—Bethan Sayed.

Motion NDM7575 Bethan Sayed

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee, 'Turn up the volume: an inquiry into the live music industry', laid in the Table Office on 17 December 2020.

Motion moved.

Diolch for the introduction, and thank you to Helen Mary Jones who was the Chair in my absence, who did a lot of work during the pandemic to discuss the impact on the music industry. And sadly, the pandemic affected the launch of this report, which was supposed to happen during the first week of the initial lockdown, I believe. I'd like to thank all the bands and all the artists as well that contributed to this inquiry. We didn't have the usual suspects; we had bands like Valhalla Awaits, we had the Joy Formidable—my favourite band—in, we had DJs like Bethan Elfyn giving evidence, all inspiring us to understand how important live music is to our lives. But we can't ignore the fact that the pandemic has decimated the music industry here in Wales and, unlike other nations, like Scotland and England, where some things were able to open and some music venues were able to practice their craft, Wales did not do that. I have a quote here from the band Buffalo Summer, and, despite the fact that I'm an independent Chair, I will say that the quote is amazing: 'We were on tour when the first lockdown happened and now we're unable to make a living from music. With the shambles of Brexit, I don't know if we will ever tour Europe again. Westminster has let our country down. The only way out is independence.' So, this is how it's affected bands the length and breadth of Wales and I'm sure I will speak for a lot of other people in the industry—not only those in bands, but the behind-the-scene workers, sound engineers, theatre producers, all being affected by this.

In terms of the need for support beyond March 2021, the Welsh Government's culture recovery fund will take us up to March 2021 and many people have utilised that particular scheme, but the Deputy Minister has said in his budget paper that:

'Our intention is to provide additional funding for recovery for 2021-22, but the scale and the approach has not yet been determined at this early stage.'

Well, I would dispute that we are at an early stage, when the current funding comes to an end in March, and I would urge the Deputy Minister to come up with an idea as to whether any funding will continue for those in the sector, and is it reliant on Westminster money. We would like to hear that from you today.

In relation to support for the self-employed, well, our inquiries into the pandemic have shown time and time again that there have been gaps in employment support for those who work in the arts and the creative industries, with many getting left out of the situation altogether. UK Music has estimated that 72 per cent of the sector are self-employed and the Musicians' Union told us that a third of their members cannot access the self-employment income support scheme for a variety of reasons. Now we know that the Welsh Government, along with local councils, have launched the freelancer scheme, and I think that has been something that has been different to other UK nations, so I would say that has been something positive to welcome. But we also know that there have been problems with people being able to utilise that scheme, so I would hope that, if there are any such schemes in the future, we could iron out some of those initial problems.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

In relation to what the sector needs for restarting activity in this area, much like we have been discussing within the sports sector, those in the creative industries are asking now for some version of a road map towards being able to reopen. Now, I know the Deputy Minister said in our recent scrutiny that he finds that difficult, because, of course, we are in a pandemic, and it's very difficult to make those decisions. I do sympathise with him in that regard, but I think it's important for him and his team to discuss with the sector what can be possible in terms of reopening. For example, some small-scale venues have said that they could open in a socially distanced way and have some music provided. Pubs have been open—perhaps we could have a band in the corner when we do reopen, so that people can enjoy music as well as enjoy their pint or their glass of water.

In moving now to Brexit, well, certainly the impact of Brexit has been great on the sector, and I'd like to thank the arts council and Cardiff Council for responding to our inquiry. Certainly, the arts council is right in commenting that the Brexit trade deal does not allow for frictionless artists' mobility, and this will make touring in Europe more complex and more expensive. The deal was announced after the publication of the report, and it will affect the number and range of artists from Europe who can perform here, and the number of Welsh artists able to tour in Europe.

In terms of the report itself, it's important that we don't forget that there are some recommendations that go beyond the pandemic, because we looked at this prior to it. So, we proposed support for grass-roots venues, including rethinking licensing; support for people, including developing talent; promoting Welsh music specifically; and a strategy for success. We are all aware that the music sector promotes the viability of our economy and promotes local businesses, but we also recognise the fact that we do need an overarching strategy that can take into account the fact that music is more than the economy. It develops creativity and it allows us to come together in order to work together. We need art more than ever during these lockdown periods. It gives us an opportunity to have solace in difficult times. We can listen to different podcasts or radio programmes that perhaps we wouldn't have had an opportunity to listen to if we hadn't been in a lockdown scenario. So, we do have to think about the importance of that, from the sea shanties on TikTok to the health service choir coming together—how music has united the nation during this most difficult time.

And to conclude, I would like to say how hard the committee has worked on this particular inquiry. We are pleased that the Government has listened, even during the committee processes. For example, we recommended that the Forté project should be rolled out to all parts of Wales, and you have listened and you will be considering that, rather than it being limited to south Wales. We also recommended in this report that you should have a fund for safeguarding venues and, of course, you have put that in place, and we're very pleased that you've taken that forward.

It's important to recognise how effective committees can be. Many artists have thanked us for the work in the sector. We've had an expert group helping us to ensure that the recommendations are as strong as possible. But I look forward to other Members' contributions and to having a debate on something that's so very important for us all.

I think you'll be relieved to hear I'm not going to speak to all 31 of the recommendations. Can I just highlight a few that I particularly want to pick out? The first one I want to start with is that we should celebrate our bilingual nationhood more, in terms of what we do in the artistic world, and that there is too sharp a binary divide between English and Welsh language events, and Creative Wales should encourage much more collaboration between the sectors. So, even in predominantly English-speaking programmes, you could have some Welsh bands as well. And I think that's a really important insight, and I'm pleased that that was made to us in evidence.

I think the need for a music strategy, so that we promote internationally brand Wales, both home and abroad, is a really key recommendation because I think we have a huge amount to offer. And if you look at, certainly, some areas of the world that have become very popular for high-end tourism, it's often their artistic offer that is particularly enticing. And I think we have a rich heritage, and there's a lot out there, and we can build on that. And then looking more locally, as well as a national strategy we need local music boards—and I'm pleased to commend Cardiff, which is ahead of the game here and is already developing one—that include the whole sector, and not just about the promotion of the creative side of music, but also looking at some of the more difficult issues, like licensing, which has already been mentioned, and also even what's in the school curriculum, because music is increasingly frozen out. I heard recently about jazz being axed from A-level music in some places, which is a slightly bizarre thing to do, one would have thought. But these are the sorts of issues that the local music boards could look at.

I am concerned about the agent of change principle not always being paramount. Because I do feel that, as we quite properly develop our inner-city areas and town centres, there'll be more need to do that probably, as a result of COVID, as we need to repurpose some of these formerly retail areas, in particular, but with the danger that the development of more housing in these areas leads to traditional venues for music being squeezed out, or being subject to increasingly onerous requirements. So, I think this needs to be carefully looked at.

And finally, can I just say on some post-COVID things, this is work in progress, but it does seem that we're going to be living with COVID—in a much more manageable way, one hopes, because of the vaccines—but we will be living with it for some time? And I did feel that not all our witnesses, when I put questions to them, like, 'Could you see the use of vaccination certificates, for instance, being part of opening up music venues again?', I'm not sure people have really started to think about this yet, and I think they need to, and indeed the Government and local government need to as well. Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer.

I'll just declare my membership of the Musicians Union interest. The challenge for us, of course, is what the new normal is actually going to be. And I think we're going to have to be very fleet of foot and flexible in the way in which we adapt and encourage live music during the changing environment that David Melding was referring to. It was a very wide-ranging report and the evidence sessions, I think, in many ways were an eye-opener for many of us in certain aspects. I have real concerns about the challenge of getting live music up and running again in venues, and I think there's clearly going to be a need for support.

I also have concerns about the challenge now, after almost 12 months of COVID, for some of the established music events we have as part of our culture. And I think of things like the choirs and brass bands, where having got out of the routine of performing and engagement, whether there is suddenly going to be a gap in the flow of new members and the ability to perform. And this is such a historic and valuable part of our culture that we really do have to look at how we may encourage and support in a different way.

My approach to aspects of the report is really to focus on the grass-roots music, and the issues of equality that emerged, and that is that we've got to start looking at live music and culture in a different way that is far more accessible. So, I was really quite interested in some of the evidence that we had, which actually began to link the issue of music venues and events and travel and transport—the ability to actually access. And the reason why many people from many of the poorer or even working-class communities are unable to access is because of the lack of an interlink between that accessibility. And maybe that is something that we can now look at, particularly now that we own a greater part of the railways and we're looking at greater co-ordination of travel.

The big issue for me though, if I had to really go on one, is the seed corn of our future, and that is music in schools. That is the learning, the consistent financing and the fact that I am convinced we have a major equality gap developing within our schools in terms of who can afford instruments, who has access to music, the promotion of music as a norm of education. It teaches maths, it teaches social engagement, it teaches so many things that are important to other parts of the curriculum. And I really think, if there was one area that we could really make a massive difference for the future, it is the promotion, the support of music in our schools, producing whole new generations who either just get the self-benefit of music that comes with playing an instrument or engaging in musical and cultural activity, as opposed to the various career options that are inevitably there as part of that economy.

And, finally, just to reiterate the point that Bethan made: the role of freelancers. The very nature of this industry, the very nature of the diversity of it, we have to recognise the number of people engaged within that who are vital to it and who will need support for many years to come. Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Than you. I think perhaps I will point out at this stage that it's a 30-minute debate, and I'm not sure whether the Chair is aware that she's left herself 10 seconds at the end to wind up. Depending on how all your other speakers go, I may allow you a little bit more than 10 seconds to wind up, seeing as it's your first time doing a committee report, but it is a three-minute contribution and it's eight minutes for the Chair to actually introduce and wind up. Siân Gwenllian.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. As a nation, we celebrate literature and music in our national anthem by talking about 'gwlad beirdd a chantorion'. We have a lengthy tradition in terms of music and live music specifically. And the Government, therefore, must ensure that it does everything within its ability to support and promote the live music industry in Wales. And, as with so many other sectors, the pandemic has had a grave impact on the sector. 

The committee's report is very comprehensive, placing a spotlight on the state of the live music industry in Wales. It reflects the problems faced by the sector, which they are still facing today, and it also highlights the threat that coronavirus poses to the sector. 

One thing that strikes me immediately, in reading the evidence gathered as part of the consultation for this inquiry, is the need for a Welsh Government music strategy. SAIN records have stated that:

'I am strongly of the opinion that one of the main deficiencies of the music industry in Wales is the fact that the Government does not have a comprehensive strategy that takes into consideration the industry in its entirety.'

And, to that end, therefore, it's good to see recommendation 6, which states the Welsh Government should, in collaboration with the industry, develop a music strategy. In Plaid Cymru's view, this has to be a holistic, comprehensive strategy and should be an integral part of the new culture strategy, which Wales needs. 

There have been positive developments, and the report highlights Welsh Language Music Day, and this year that will be celebrated this Friday. Clearly, it will be celebrated in a very different way this year. But we need to build on this. Not just a day; we need local projects that provide opportunities 12 months a year for people to learn, to perform, to promote and organise events. 

We must use music to attract young people to the Welsh language, particularly in the post-education age groups where there is a substantial fall in the number of Welsh speakers. And, as others have mentioned, we need action on recommendation 9, which calls for the establishment of a capital fund that could help to support venues like Gwdihŵ in Cardiff, and there could be changes to the planning system too in order to ensure that venues for the arts and culture do remain viable. 

I welcome the report, and I'm very grateful to the committee and all witnesses for taking time to contribute to the inquiry. The recommendations are broad ranging and varied, and give the Government, and us as Senedd Members interested in culture policy, a great deal to consider. 

Diolch yn fawr, Deputy Presiding Officer. I too would like to thank the staff of the committee and all the witnesses who gave us evidence. It was quite a substantial piece of work, and it's produced, I think, an important and substantial report.

I'd like to refer to recommendation 6 as well, and the need for a music strategy, which as the recommendation states, would be very beneficial outside Wales, as well as within. I think we're all familiar, aren't we, with Cool Cymru when it came about, and we had a lot of top-quality, high-profile rock bands coming to prominence around the same time. And I think that gave Wales a great international image, and we shouldn't underestimate the importance of that. It's about soft power, isn't it, which the British Council and UK Government work hard to establish and develop. It's very, very important for any nation, and I think it was a great image for us.

I know, locally in Newport, we had a thriving live music scene, and many people speak of the legendary TJ's with great and fond memories. And then we had Le Pub, which is a great venue as well, and indeed the proprietor gave evidence to the committee. And that's been very important for Newport in changing the image of the city, and also in allowing good quality of life for all people locally who want to enjoy live music. So, we really shouldn't underestimate the importance of music locally, nationally or internationally, and I think a music strategy could reflect on what might be done and take it forward effectively. 

I'd very much like to agree with what Mick Antoniw said, and reflect on recommendation 13 with regard to schools. I think, my own experience, as Mick said, is that it is very unequal at the moment. Gwent Music provide a great service, but much of the provision relies on parents paying for it, and obviously that excludes an awful lot of families. So, we really need to tackle that. Everybody has talents, and it's awful to think that some children will develop their talents and others will miss out because of the circumstances into which they were born, and we really need to do something about that. It's a great waste of human potential, and music is one aspect of that, and I hope that this report can be a catalyst to doing more than we are currently doing to wrestle with those issues.

And just one other matter. Charities can be really important in terms of providing opportunities to those who wouldn't otherwise have them to learn to play a musical instrument and have experience. In Newport, we had an empty town centre shop taken over by a music charity, and people of any age could walk in off the streets and try out a musical instrument and have tuition, come back time and time again, develop their interest and their talents, and there was a very strong social side to it as well. At a time when we're looking for alternative uses for our town centre and city centre buildings—and that will probably accelerate because of the pandemic and online shopping and so on—what a great use for a building, an empty building, in our town and city centres to provide opportunities to try out musical instruments, and to develop and foster talent. 

Thank you. Can I now call on the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism, Dafydd Elis-Thomas?

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'd also like to thank the committee for the report and for contributions made this afternoon. I was very pleased that of the 31 recommendations we've been able to accept the vast majority. Those that we haven't been able to accept were those that were outside the Government's responsibility.

So, may I just briefly explain what our approach is in this area, namely by working through the new public body that we have as part of Welsh Government, but operating independently, namely Creative Wales? My expectation is that there will be a music action plan for the whole of Wales and that Creative Wales will develop that plan particularly for the commercial music industry. The action plan that we hope to see put in place through Creative Wales will work on the short-term issues that are required to respond to the public health crisis that has faced us and continues to face us. But it's important too that it looks at longer term plans in terms of the role of live music in Wales in a global market.

We recognise, of course, that live music was one of the most negatively impacted by the public health crisis, but we have provided support to over 70 music businesses. And that means that we've been able to support venues, recording studios and rehearsal spaces that have been seriously impacted. We have provided over £4 million to deal with that situation and that's been done through Creative Wales and directly from other Government support funds.

Our intention is to keep music businesses alive and we have placed specific emphasis, of course, on the situation facing those working on a freelance basis. We do accept that there will be a need for further funding and that will be implemented through Creative Wales, as well as through the music development fund that's already been mentioned. There will be a music development fund. We're currently considering our options in terms of providing additional support, in addition to the £8.9 million already issued to freelancers. There is urgency in this area and we're pleased to have got substantial funds out at an early stage in this crisis. We're also continuing to look at the importance of supporting and assisting talent development projects, such as Beacons and Momentum, and these, hopefully, will also be a fundamental part of the music action plan.

The assistance that we have provided to the AM project, brought about by PYST, has been a huge success and I'm grateful to them for the way in which they've taken advantage of that opportunity. Our collaborative approach to responding to challenges will continue. This genuine partnership approach is embedded in the work of the music team within Creative Wales, local authorities and everyone else involved in promoting and supporting the commercial music industry. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. No Member has indicated that they want to make an intervention, therefore I will now call on Bethan to reply to the debate. Bethan.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I apologise for going over time. It's difficult to time these things. I would like to thank the Deputy Minister for that response and everyone who's contributed this afternoon. Unfortunately, I can't cover all of your comments, but everything you've said has been important in providing us with an overview of what's important for the future in terms of live music, whether that's in school through the curriculum, or on the ground in our communities, whether it relates to transport so that we can ensure that live music is taken closer to people—all of that's important in order to ensure that music can be something for everyone rather than just something for those people who can afford to access it.

I hear what the Deputy Minister says on an action plan for commercial music and it would be good to see that as a committee—if not this committee in this Senedd, then its successor committee—in the hope that culture and live music will be an integral part of the work of any future committee. I'm sure every Member of the Senedd misses going to see live music, misses going to gigs, and we have to think about those people who work in the sector and to help them to bring music alive again once this pandemic not perhaps has gone away altogether, but once the situation is improved, so that we can improve things for everyone in the sector. 

Thank you very much. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? I don't see objections. Therefore, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36, the committee's report is accepted. 

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.