Group 4: Additional polling days (Amendment 8)

– in the Senedd at 5:04 pm on 10 February 2021.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:04, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

Which brings us to the fourth group of amendments, and these amendments relate to additional polling days. The lead amendment and only amendment in the group is amendment 8, and I call on Mark Isherwood to move and speak to the amendment. Mark Isherwood. 

(Translated)

Amendment 8 (Mark Isherwood) moved.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 5:04, 10 February 2021

Diolch, Llywydd, and I move amendment 8 in my name. This amendment simply leaves out section 6 in order to prevent multiple-day voting. As I said yesterday, we recognise the need for voting to take place on a single day and not be spread out over multiple days. An election held over multiple days raises security concerns over the integrity of the election. As I said, where will ballot boxes be stored and how will their security be protected and guaranteed? Whilst the Minister stated yesterday that the Welsh Government is working with returning officers to seek to address this, and it's a criminal offence to interfere with ballot boxes and therefore the democratic will of the people, multiple-day voting would inevitably create a higher risk of this, necessitating multiple-agency involvement and increased costs.

What will the impact be on those community venues that have to close to become a polling station, usually just for a day? This also runs the risks of some voters being unduly influenced by how others have voted, and sets an unfavourable precedent we cannot support. In fact, I believe that we've not had multiple voting anywhere, certainly in the UK, since the end of the first world war. It was ended for sound democratic reasons, and we would return it, I believe, at high risk.

As I said yesterday, I hope the Welsh Government will be reading with interest the delivery plan published by the UK Government Cabinet Office last week, which does set out—. Excuse me. Modern technology—everything just jumped. How elections can be safely run on 6 May 2021 in England and Wales. Given that polling stations in Wales will already be operating an election on 6 May and 6 May only, to elect police and crime commissioners, it would be bizarre to extend voting by multiple days for another franchise. The Senedd elections must take place on a single day, and in our view that single day should remain Thursday 6 May. Diolch.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:07, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

The Minister to contribute—Julie James.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour

Diolch, Llywydd. As I explained yesterday, the Government's intention is that early voting should be available if, and only if, the Senedd election is postponed from 6 May and is not then combined on a new date with the police and crime commissioner elections. We cannot support the amendment in this group as it would remove the power we need to give effect to that intention. As the Member has himself repeatedly reminded us, elections have been held around the world during this pandemic. This has been the case in Canada and New Zealand, for example, and in both those countries, early voting in person is commonplace. I am perplexed by the Member's continued efforts to remove the ability to vote early and thus potentially disenfranchise many who may not feel comfortable or even be able to attend on polling day. All the evidence on voter fraud in the UK suggests that it is both rare and almost entirely focused on local government elections in a handful of local authority areas, all of which are in England. I would therefore ask the Member to withdraw an amendment that could easily be seen as a deliberate attempt to make it more difficult for those who are vulnerable or worried about the pandemic to vote. Diolch, Llywydd.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:08, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

The question, therefore, is that amendment 8 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, we will therefore move to a vote on amendment 8. Open the vote.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

Oh, yes, you do, Mark Isherwood. I'm very sorry. Please respond.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative

Don't worry, you've had a very long two days, after all.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative

I'm perplexed by the Minister's position, which I believe would actually diminish the democratic rights of the full electorate. There are alternative ways to vote, which are also addressed under parts of this Bill, and which pre-exist this Bill. To introduce this new precedent at this point would not achieve the goals identified by the Minister, and we believe, to the contrary, could actually run counter to them. Therefore, I will not be withdrawing this amendment.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

The question, therefore, is that amendment 8 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is an objection and we will therefore move to a vote on amendment 8. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 14, one abstention and 37 against. Therefore, amendment 8 is not agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 8: For: 14, Against: 37, Abstain: 1

Amendment has been rejected

Division number 3095 Amendment 8

Aye: 14 MSs

No: 37 MSs

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 8 MSs

Abstained: 1 MS

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: A-Z by last name

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

Mark Isherwood, is it being moved?

(Translated)

Amendment 9 (Mark Isherwood) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

The question is that amendment 9 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes. We will therefore move to a vote on amendment 9. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 11, four abstentions and 37 against. Therefore, amendment 9 is not agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 9: For: 11, Against: 37, Abstain: 4

Amendment has been rejected

Division number 3096 Amendment 9

Aye: 11 MSs

No: 37 MSs

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 8 MSs

Abstained: 4 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: A-Z by last name

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:11, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

Amendment 17, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

(Translated)

Amendment 17 (Rhun ap Iorwerth) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you. The question is that amendment 17 be agreed. Does any Member object? I don't see any objection, therefore, amendment 17 is agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:11, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

Amendment 10, Mark Isherwood.

(Translated)

Amendment 10 (Mark Isherwood) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

The question is that amendment 10 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, I see an objection. We will therefore move to a vote on amendment 10. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 11, four abstentions and 37 against. Therefore, amendment 10 is not agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 10: For: 11, Against: 37, Abstain: 4

Amendment has been rejected

Division number 3097 Amendment 10

Aye: 11 MSs

No: 37 MSs

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 8 MSs

Abstained: 4 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: A-Z by last name

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:12, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

Amendment 11, Mark Isherwood.

(Translated)

Amendment 11 (Mark Isherwood) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

The question is that amendment 11 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is an objection. We will therefore move to a vote on amendment 11. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 11, four abstentions and 37 against. Therefore, amendment 11 is not agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 11: For: 11, Against: 37, Abstain: 4

Amendment has been rejected

Division number 3098 Amendment 11

Aye: 11 MSs

No: 37 MSs

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 8 MSs

Abstained: 4 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: A-Z by last name

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:13, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

Amendment 12, Mark Isherwood.

(Translated)

Amendment 12 (Mark Isherwood) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you. The question is that amendment 12 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there are objections. We will therefore move to a vote on amendment 12. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 11, four abstentions and 37 against. Therefore, amendment 12 is not agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 12: For: 11, Against: 37, Abstain: 4

Amendment has been rejected

Division number 3099 Amendment 12

Aye: 11 MSs

No: 37 MSs

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 8 MSs

Abstained: 4 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: A-Z by last name

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:14, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

Amendment 13, Mark Isherwood.

(Translated)

Amendment 13 (Mark Isherwood) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Is there any objection to amendment 13? [Objection.] There is. We will therefore move to a vote on amendment 13. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 11, four abstentions and 37 against. Therefore, amendment 13 is not agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 13: For: 11, Against: 37, Abstain: 4

Amendment has been rejected

Division number 3100 Amendment 13

Aye: 11 MSs

No: 37 MSs

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 8 MSs

Abstained: 4 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: A-Z by last name