Group 6: Proxy voting (Amendment 14)

– in the Senedd at 5:19 pm on 10 February 2021.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:19, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

Group 6 is our next group, and it relates to proxy voting. The lead amendment is amendment 14, and the only amendment in the group. I call on Mark Isherwood to move and speak to the amendment.

(Translated)

Amendment 14 (Mark Isherwood) moved.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 5:19, 10 February 2021

Diolch. I move amendment 14, tabled in my name. As currently drafted, this Bill gives licence to absolutely anyone to have a proxy vote for almost any reason, setting a dangerous precedent and one that could be open to abuse. Our amendment 14 would therefore require an applicant's polling day proxy voting application to be accompanied by an NHS coronavirus isolation note. This will, of course, be in addition to eligibility under current normal circumstances. Our amendment therefore represents a prudent and practical compromise that reflects the sole stated reason for this Bill—the current COVID-19 coronavirus pandemic. I urge Members to support it accordingly.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:20, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

The Minister—Julie James.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour

Diolch, Llywydd. The aim of this Bill is to deliver a safe and fair election for the people of Wales in the face of a public health crisis the like of which we have not previously seen in our lifetimes. The objective in these exceptional times must be to ensure the election can be run in a COVID-safe manner and protecting the fundamental right to vote. It is concerning, therefore, that the Member continues to promote an amendment that would at best narrow the criteria for proxy vote applications and at worst disenfranchise those who, because they are following law and guidance to stay at home, find that they cannot vote in person.

The Member would like to add an amendment that requires an NHS isolation note as a necessary requirement for a person seeking a proxy vote. These isolation notes are provided by the NHS to people who are unable to work for more than seven days because of coronavirus, and are obtained using the NHS website. It is important to understand that these notes are only available to patients who are advised to self-isolate by the online symptom checker and who are employed. The Member's amendment, therefore, would prevent those who have been advised to shield, those who do not currently display symptoms, and those who are not in employment from being able to apply for an emergency proxy vote. Finally, we have been advised that the speed at which these isolation notes are received can vary depending on the application. The concern here is the note may not be returned in time for voters who find they cannot vote in person to arrange the proxy. With all these concerns I ask: why does the Member want to disenfranchise these people? We must also acknowledge the considerable pressure having to administer these notes would put on an NHS already dealing with a pandemic.

The Member has previously mentioned the potential for fraud, which is a valid concern in all elections. However, I would like to put his mind at rest. In 2019, a year that saw a general election, European election and local elections, only 142 allegations of voter fraud were recorded. From this already small number of allegations, only two cases were prosecuted, both of which related to impersonation at a polling station, and not postal or proxy votes. Although the Member’s continued protestations of fraud sound alarming, they appear to be baseless.

Given our concerns that this amendment would narrow the criteria for proxy voting, potentially disenfranchise voters and put further and unnecessary pressure on the NHS, we are opposing this amendment. The reasons that you would give for having a proxy vote in these emergency circumstances are for a coronavirus reason only, and therefore I urge Members to vote against this amendment. Diolch.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative

Thank you. Clearly, we would not wish to exclude people who are, for example, shielding, or extremely vulnerable groups, and, as I said, eligibility existing under current legislation for proxy voting would continue accordingly, and we are here only talking about voting on polling day, not otherwise, where normal rules would also continue to apply. I believe that invalidates the Minister's perhaps somewhat scaremongering response and instead seeks to focus the purpose of this Bill on the issue it's solely supposed to be about, which is the pandemic, whilst ensuring the other proxy eligibility criteria continue as normal to protect everyone else. I therefore urge Members to support it.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:23, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

The question is that amendment 14 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes. We'll to a vote on amendment 14. Open the vote. 

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Close the vote. In favour 11, five abstentions, 36 against, and therefore amendment 14 is not agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 14: For: 11, Against: 36, Abstain: 5

Amendment has been rejected

Division number 3103 Amendment 14

Aye: 11 MSs

No: 36 MSs

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 8 MSs

Abstained: 5 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: A-Z by last name

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:26, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

We have reached the end of our Stage 3 consideration of the Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Bill, and I declare that all sections of the Bill are deemed agreed. Also, in accordance with Standing Order 26.50A, I can confirm that, in my view, the provisions of the Welsh Elections (Coronavirus) Bill do not relate to a protected subject matter.

(Translated)

All sections of the Bill deemed agreed.