Group 5: Restrictions on giving notice (Amendments 1, 2,3, 4, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 22, 23, 24, 28, 29, 30, 31, 8)

– in the Senedd at 1:44 pm on 10 February 2021.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:44, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

We now move to group 5, which relates to restrictions on giving notice. The lead amendment in the group is amendment 1. I call on Julie James to move and speak to the lead amendment and the other amendments in the group. Minister, Julie James.

(Translated)

Amendment 1 (Julie James) moved.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 1:45, 10 February 2021

Diolch, Llywydd. I move Government amendments 1, 23, 29 and 30, which clarify when a notice under section 173 can be served upon a contract holder by re-titling section 175 so that the heading matches the section itself. This will remove the potential for ambiguity regarding a situation where the occupation contract doesn’t permit the contract holder to start occupying the property immediately. This can often be the case with student lets where the contract permits the contract holder to start occupying from a date in the future. In these and similar circumstances, a landlord cannot serve a section 173 notice during the period that starts with the day the contract is made and ending six months after the occupation date, and the amendment ensures that the heading of section 175 reflects that fact.  

Amendments 2, 24 and 31 clarify when a landlord’s break clause notice can be issued to a contract holder by re-titling section 196 so that the heading matches the text of the section. It will remain the case that a landlord is prevented from serving a break clause under a fixed-term contract until 18 months after the contract has elapsed, starting with the occupation date of the contract. This restriction will apply regardless of when the fixed-term contract was entered into.

Amendments 3, 4, 8 and 15 remove references to the Housing (Wales) Act 2014 within this Bill. Such action is necessary, following detailed consideration of the Jarvis v Evans Court of Appeal judgment in 2020, relating to the Housing (Wales) Act 2014. The judgment has proven to be quite complicated in its application, not only to the 2014 Act, but how this is expressed with the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016. I have some concerns that any amendments brought forward at this stage to account for this judgment may not be accurate and would be difficult to correct. Therefore, I consider it prudent to remove these references to the 2014 Act so that the matter can be fully considered and provisions confidently brought forward.

Amendments 11, 12, 13 and 22 provide further clarity on serving a section 173 or 186 and a break clause notice by a landlord who has not provided a written statement to the contract holder. Amendments 11, 12 and 13 remove any potential uncertainty around the ability of a landlord to issue a notice where a written statement has not been provided to the contract holder. Where a written statement has not been provided by the landlord, regardless of whether this is during the 14-day period provided for under sections 31(1) and 31(2), the landlord will be prevented from serving a notice set out under schedule 2 until a written statement is provided.

Section 31(1) provides a period of 14 days for the landlord to provide a written statement to the contract holder, starting with the occupation date of the contract. Section 31(2) provides a period of 14 days, from the date of occupation or where the landlord becomes aware, for the landlord to provide a new written statement to the contract holder should the contract holder change during the life of the contract. A landlord who provides a written statement within this 14-day period is not subjected to further sanction. Amendment 13 clarifies that a landlord who has failed to comply with this requirement is prohibited from giving a notice under section 173 or 186 under a landlord’s break clause for a period of six months, starting with the day on which the landlord provided the written statement to the contract holder.

Amendment 14 provides clarification that a landlord is restricted from serving notice when they are in breach of the security requirements in relation to the occupation contract.

Amendment 28 deals with those existing tenancies and licences, which will convert to an occupation contract upon implementation of the Renting Homes Act. An existing landlord, upon implementation of the Act, will have a period of six months from the appointed day—the date of implementation—to provide the contract holder with a copy of the written statement. During this six-month period, the occupation contract is in force and applies to both landlord and contract holder equally. Amendment 28 clarifies that a landlord is not prevented from serving a notice under section 173, section 186, or a landlord’s break clause during this period, whether or not the written statement has been provided to the contract holder.

I therefore urge Members to support all the amendments in this group. Diolch, Llywydd.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:49, 10 February 2021

Thank you. Before I call Laura Jones to speak, may I apologise to Laura Jones for not having called her in the previous group of amendments? That was my fault entirely and would have confused you. Sorry about that. So, if you wish to make any comments on amendments 53 and 54 from the previous group just to place them on the Record, please feel free to do so. And of course, speak to this group of amendments as well. My apologies, Laura.

Photo of Laura Anne Jones Laura Anne Jones Conservative

Thank you, Llywydd, I appreciate that. Okay, yes, we'll go back to group 4. Amendment 56 in my name is linked to our amendment 54, which we've just debated and voted on. It seeks to clarify the occupation status of the minister of religion and I am, again, grateful to Cytûn for their support. 

In written evidence, Cytûn state that it is their view that ministers of religion who occupy parsonage properties do not fall within the scope of the Bill. For example, Church in Wales ministers do not pay any rent, licence fee or other payment to the representative body or to any other Church in Wales body. Cytûn therefore contend that the direct effect of the Act would alter the relationship between the Church and ministers from a relationship that is not an employment relationship to one that is an employment relationship. However, they also acknowledge that this is an unintended consequence of the Bill that would be addressed through this amendment. It is my hope that Members would support this.

Minister, I would also ask for some clarification about amendment 25, which gives the Welsh Ministers a number of additional powers over the 2016 Act. The purpose and effect table is not very clear on how you intend to use these potentially wide-ranging powers in the future. So, I would appreciate some clarity on this. Shall I go straight on to group 5, Llywydd?

Photo of Laura Anne Jones Laura Anne Jones Conservative

Restrictions on giving notice. Minister, we will be abstaining on amendments 1 and 2, and their consequential amendments. This is not because I disagree with the intention of increasing security of tenure, but because I want to raise issues discussed by my colleague Mark Isherwood MS during Stage 2.

At Stage 2, we brought forward an amendment based on recommendations made by the NRLA to allow for a six-month section 173 notice to be served after four months, but to take effect at the end of the six-month fixed term. The NRLA, whilst not disrupting the Bill's intentions, have voiced concerns about the impact that this may have in markets where the preservation of an annual cycle, mainly the student sector, is essential for the smooth running of the rental sector. This was also supported by the leader of Ceredigion County Council, a Plaid Cymru councillor, in a recent letter received by the NRLA.

The Minister refused to accept this amendment, instead arguing that students would not be treated differently. This was not the intention of this amendment. Nor would this amendment have encroached on the Welsh Government's objective of a year's security of tenure and increased notice period. All it sought was to give the landlords extra flexibility to preserve the business cycle that is essential to the efficient running of the sector. Minister, how do you respond to the legitimate concerns of some within the housing sector about the impact that this provision will have on the student housing sector, in particular, and how can you alleviate these concerns?

Moving on to amendment 2, we put forward a compromise amendment at Stage 2, allowing for a six-month, 10-year tenant-only break, which was proposed by the NRLA. However, this was rejected by the Minister. This was based on concerns that some tenants want some flexibility so that they can respond to changes in their personal lives. As such, will the Minister provide confidence about how the Bill provides for tenants who require flexibility, while also increasing security of tenure?

Finally, we are abstaining on amendment 15, as it does not seem to fully resolve the judgment of the recent Jarvis v. Evans case. Indeed, it returns to the status quo, as outlined in the Housing (Wales) Act 2014. As such, I wanted to ask whether this is a stop-gap amendment ahead of further changes, or whether you are satisfied that it responds to the recent judgment. Thank you.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour

Diolch, Llywydd. Well, starting with that last point first, I think I made it clear in my submission that we were removing the references because of the complexity of the case in point. The complexity of that judgment requires further consideration. Therefore, we have removed all references to the 2014 Act as a result of that.

In terms of the other points, I understand the point that Laura Anne is making, but we don't accept that the landlords' business cycle is unduly interrupted by the provisions set out here. The amendments in the group make various changes to the restrictions on giving notice. We have worked very hard with all stakeholders—both tenants and landlords—to make sure that this is a reasonable compromise between them. I therefore ask Members to support all of the amendments in the group. Diolch.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:54, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

The question is that amendment 1 be agreed. Does any member object? [Objection.] Yes, I see an objection. We'll move to a vote on amendment 1. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 35, nine abstentions, and five against. Therefore, amendment 1 is agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 1: For: 35, Against: 5, Abstain: 9

Amendment has been agreed

Division number 3053 Amendment 1

Aye: 35 MSs

No: 5 MSs

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 11 MSs

Abstained: 9 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: A-Z by last name

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:55, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

Amendment 2, Julie James.

(Translated)

Amendment 2 (Julie James) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

The question is that amendment 2 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is an objection. We'll move to a vote on amendment 2 in the name of Julie James. Open the vote. In favour 35, nine abstentions, and four against. Therefore, amendment 2 is agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 2: For: 35, Against: 4, Abstain: 9

Amendment has been agreed

Division number 3054 Amendment 2

Aye: 35 MSs

No: 4 MSs

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 12 MSs

Abstained: 9 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: A-Z by last name

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:56, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

Amendment 3, Julie James.

(Translated)

Amendment 3 (Julie James) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

The question is that amendment 3 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, we'll therefore move to a vote on amendment 3. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 35, 11 abstentions, and two against. Therefore, amendment 3 is agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 3: For: 35, Against: 2, Abstain: 11

Amendment has been agreed

Division number 3055 Amendment 3

Aye: 35 MSs

No: 2 MSs

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 12 MSs

Abstained: 11 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: A-Z by last name

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:57, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

Amendment 4, Julie James.

(Translated)

Amendment 4 (Julie James) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Are there any objections to amendment 4? [Objection.] There are. We will therefore move a vote on amendment 4. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 36, 11 abstentions, two against. Therefore, amendment 4 is agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 4: For: 36, Against: 2, Abstain: 11

Amendment has been agreed

Division number 3056 Amendment 4

Aye: 36 MSs

No: 2 MSs

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 11 MSs

Abstained: 11 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: A-Z by last name

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:58, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

Amendment 11, Julie James.

(Translated)

Amendment 11 (Julie James) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

The question is that amendment 11 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes. We'll therefore move to a vote on amendment 11. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 45, three abstentions, and one against. Therefore, amendment 11 is agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 11: For: 45, Against: 1, Abstain: 3

Amendment has been agreed

Division number 3057 Amendment 11

Aye: 45 MSs

No: 1 MS

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 11 MSs

Abstained: 3 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: A-Z by last name

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:58, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

Julie James, amendment 12.

(Translated)

Amendment 12 (Julie James) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

The question is that amendment 12 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, we will move to a vote on amendment 12. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 45, three abstentions, and one against. Therefore, amendment 12 is agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 12: For: 45, Against: 1, Abstain: 3

Amendment has been agreed

Division number 3058 Amendment 12

Aye: 45 MSs

No: 1 MS

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 11 MSs

Abstained: 3 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: A-Z by last name

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:59, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

Amendment 13, Julie James.

(Translated)

Amendment 13 (Julie James) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

The question is that amendment 13 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, we'll therefore move to a vote on amendment 13. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 45, three abstentions, one against. Therefore, amendment 13 is agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 13: For: 45, Against: 1, Abstain: 3

Amendment has been agreed

Division number 3059 Amendment 13

Aye: 45 MSs

No: 1 MS

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 11 MSs

Abstained: 3 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: A-Z by last name

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:00, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

Amendment 14, Julie James.

(Translated)

Amendment 14 (Julie James) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

The question is that amendment 14 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes. We'll therefore move to a vote on amendment 14. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 45, four abstentions, none against, therefore amendment 14 is agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 14: For: 45, Against: 0, Abstain: 4

Amendment has been agreed

Division number 3060 Amendment 14

Aye: 45 MSs

Absent: 11 MSs

Aye: A-Z by last name

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: 4 MSs

Abstained: A-Z by last name

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:01, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

Amendment 15, Julie James.

(Translated)

Amendment 15 (Julie James) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Are there any objections to amendment 15? [Objection.] There are. We will therefore move to a vote on amendment 15. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 36, 12 abstentions and one against, therefore amendment 15 is agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 15: For: 36, Against: 1, Abstain: 12

Amendment has been agreed

Division number 3061 Amendment 15

Aye: 36 MSs

No: 1 MS

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 11 MSs

Abstained: 12 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: A-Z by last name