Thank you to Bethan. She is right—I don't believe any political party can say that they have completely clean hands when it comes to the issue of student fees, and I would remind her of which parties were in Government in Wales in 2009 when the top-up fees were introduced. So, I think all of us have got parties where we've had to make some really difficult decisions, whether it be at Westminster or whether it be in Wales, about how we support the university sector and how we support students.

But the Member is absolutely right to say that what we have been able to achieve in Wales via the Diamond review is a level of consensus that has not been seen to be available in other parts of the United Kingdom, and that's because, I think, all political parties had an opportunity to contribute to the Diamond review, to bring their ideas to the table and to work hard to develop that consensus. So, I think Diamond has provided that opportunity to take some of the hard politics out of these very complex decisions, and has allowed everybody to have a seat at the table and to help develop a consensus that I think has brought real, real dividends not just for the sector, but for individual students.

On the part-time offer, I'm glad that Bethan has acknowledged this, because that ability to study in a different way and to recognise that a student isn't necessarily that traditional 18-year-old school leaver, is really, really, really important. I said in answer to Suzy Davies there's a tremendous impact and a tremendous rise in numbers that we've seen at the OU, but it's also important to recognise that our more traditional universities are also responding to this agenda, not just by offering part-time undergraduate degrees and part-time degrees, but we've seen a growing interest and a growing determination in the sector to offer micro-credentials to be able to support people who are looking for some qualifications and some accreditation that allows them to progress in their field of work or allows them to seek new work. I think that flexibility that is being shown in the sector is very, very welcome and recognises that they know that they have a huge part to play in COVID recovery in our nation going forward. Therefore, it is really important that our universities are in a position to respond positively and work with Welsh Government for that post-COVID recovery, and we've been able to do that by ensuring that we've been able to support our universities via the funding council in a way that we were not previously able to do so under the old system. We have seen a significant amount of money being able to go into HEFCW's budget to support universities, and we've responded positively as a Government during this crisis to be able to support them, going forward.

On this issue of where young people in Wales choose to go to university, Bethan, I don't want choice to simply be available to those students who can afford it, and a differentiation approach I think is one where— . We've tried to do that in postgraduate where there is support above and beyond what you would get, but I really think it is for the individual to decide where they want to go to university. And I don't think we should necessarily see it as a completely bad thing if young people decide to, perhaps, spend a period of time studying anywhere else. I see this in my own family. There's nothing unpatriotic about a young person in Wales who decides that they want to go and study in a different country for a period of time. In fact, if I look around the Cabinet table, I think the vast majority of Ministers studied at universities elsewhere and have come back to make a contribution to Wales. So, I don't want choice and a differential finding system to be put in place, where those who can afford to go to different universities have that choice, and those that are only reliant on support from the Welsh Government have to go to universities that Welsh Government want them to go to. But that's the difference, I guess, between your perspective on life and my perspective, in that I really value that individual choice and that individual freedom to fulfil people's potential.

But what I would say is that Welsh universities are tremendously successful in recruiting from other parts of the United Kingdom. We have a strong offer that is very, very, very attractive to individuals who live here in Wales and who choose to come and study in Wales. We've got something for everybody and a really, really strong reputation. Our universities score higher for student satisfaction than any other sector in the United Kingdom, and the quality of our research means that we outshine the system for our size—we punch above our weight in that regard. So, we have lots to recommend it, but I am not in the business of curtailing where individuals want to go to university by altering the system.

FE does have a really, really important part to play. We need to make sure that FE and HE work in collaboration and do not compete. Bethan is quite right to talk about the marketisation of the approach and the damage sometimes that brings. I think, in Wales, we are too small for that. Our sector and our institutions have something very unique to offer their communities and our nation, and they need to work in partnership with FE. And that's why it's disappointing to me that we've not been able to move forward with our tertiary education reforms, which I believe would have let us create a planning environment that could have cut through some of that competition and some of that marketisation, and we could have had a very clear collaborative agenda between who does what in education in Wales—we play to our strengths and there is a clear path for individual students to move seamlessly between different levels at a time that is right for them.