Our next group is group 7, and the amendments relate to implementation and advice. The lead amendment is amendment 5. I call on Suzy Davies to move and speak to the lead amendment and the other amendments in the group. Suzy Davies.

Amendment 5 (Suzy Davies) moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. I move amendment 5. Minister, the thrust of these amendments will be familiar to you from Stage 2, but we have tweaked them a little bit to see if we can make progress here. Amendments 5 and 7 are to be read together, and allow schools to be able to delay the implementation of the curriculum by up to a year, provided that—and it is a big proviso—no pupil is disadvantaged by the decision. Basically, schools will have to make up for that lost time. These amendments don't seek to delay implementation of the curriculum per se, and those schools that can do this should just get on with it, but the amendment is for schools that just won't be able to. I am mindful of your concern that some school leaders might see this as a green light to slacken off the pace, and, to be honest, I think that we have some heads who are so close to burnout that maybe they just need that extra time.

While you agreed at Stage 2 that I'd identified, and I'm quoting here, 'a real issue', your solution was more support rather than a short delay for those who might need it. So, it hasn't been a surprise that the demand for training has shot up in recent months. But the one thing a commitment of more support cannot do is create time. The disruption of the pandemic has driven teachers to think about things differently, and many will have called on ideas in the new curriculum to actually accelerate progress on their own new skills—digital competence and understanding of well-being are the obvious ones—and your implementation plan will also give some new steer. But the bottom line is that teachers will be caught up in 'recruit, recover and raise standards' for the foreseeable future. There will be some schools with high numbers of the most badly affected children, and they will need time, not just support. Too many of those concerns voiced by teachers who weren't in the pilot schools, if you like, are still there.

Amendment 12 is a simple probing amendment requiring Welsh Ministers to review the curriculum. At Stage 2, Minister, you confirmed that there will be regular reviews. So, this amendment is here as an opportunity for two things, really: first, so that you can give us some detail or reassure us on how reviews will be reported upon, and then, importantly for us—this came in up in the CYPE committee—how Members could influence the evaluation questions. Reports on Government performance aren't much use to us if they don't answer the questions that Members think matter most to constituents, and so I'd be interested in the thoughts of the Minister and, actually, other Members on a practical way forward, not least because it may start to set a precedent for the way that reviews might be conducted in other areas of policy in the future. The role of Members of the Senedd is pretty important here, I think. I know in the last 10 years or so I've sat on statements or listened to debates on reports when I've thought, 'I didn't really need to know this stuff, but what I did want to know hasn't been covered.' So, that's all amendment 12 is about. Thank you.

The Minister to contribute—Kirsty Williams. 

Thank you, Presiding Officer, and thank you to Suzy Davies. I would ask Members to resist amendments 5 and 7. I am very well aware and very sympathetic to the pressures that schools are under at the moment and the massive impact that COVID has had on their operations and their ability to teach as they would like. The priorities for us going forward, as part of our learning recovery, are to promote and enable high-quality teaching and learning, and to address the challenges for disadvantaged learners and those in key cohorts. These are also, it should be said, priorities for curriculum reform, and as I set out in my written statement alongside the curriculum implementation plan on 27 January, learning recovery is a path towards curriculum reform. It doesn't take us away from it. They are not alternatives, they are not either/ors, and there is no 'business as usual' now, so we must move ahead and grasp the opportunity that the new curriculum affords us.

My concern about this amendment is that actually what it could lead to is that those schools that are further behind in progressing with curriculum reform will be the ones that are delaying implementation, and I do not believe that that is right or that it is fair. These are the schools where we should put our efforts to support them, and enable them to move confidently towards curriculum reform. I believe that this amendment would risk creating a two-tier system, which would be confusing for schools, parents and learners and risk creating inequity between schools and learners. The solution, I truly believe, is to ensure that schools have the support they need to implement the curriculum. I have set this out in the curriculum implementation plan, which will be kept under review. A plan on recovery is also being developed to set out the support for schools that we will put in place as we move forward to the next phase of this pandemic. I would therefore urge Members to resist amendments 5 and 7.

With regard to amendment 12, again, I would point out that the curriculum implementation plan sets out clearly our priority areas of work for curriculum realisation. It also, in line with the regulatory impact assessment, sets out our intentions around evaluation and understanding progress. Our curriculum implementation plan already commits to annual reporting from the Welsh Government on the progress of implementation and the wider impacts of our reform on our well-being goals as a nation. That is, it'll focus on the difference that our reforms are making to learners and our aim that they should embody the four purposes and, as a nation, that we should achieve excellence in education and close the attainment gap.

Alongside this, of course, will sit the work of our partners, the work that they do with schools and settings to progress curriculum reform, including in particular Estyn's role in inspection and the regional consortia in helping to develop capacity and capability in the school system. The annual reporting process will provide the opportunity for debate on the floor of the Senedd, and will enable Members to share their priorities for implementation and feed back on key issues or any concerns.

So, I would ask, therefore, Members to resist amendment 12, although I agree with you, Suzy, it would be interesting to explore—unfortunately, it'll be neither of us doing that exploring—how the CYPE committee in particular can express their opinion on particular aspects of implementation reporting that they would like to see fed back on, and I think that's a perfectly legitimate thing that the committee should have a view on, although I suspect the person that takes on this job after me will regret the fact that I ever put this on the record. But that's my special parting gift to them, because I do believe there is a legitimate role for the Parliament to be able to frame some of these reporting requirements. Thank you very much.

Suzy Davies to respond to the debate.

Diolch yn fawr. Thank you, Minister, for coming back to some of these points. I appreciate that your position won't particularly have changed from Stage 2 on the opportunities for a small number of schools, perhaps, to delay the implementation of the curriculum, and I do understand the arguments that you're putting forward as to why, perhaps, this amendment, you wouldn't be prepared to support it. What I'm not clear about, I suppose, is what happens on day 1 of the curriculum implementation. Some schools, despite any support they've had, are so far behind that they're actually in breach of this Bill. I’m hoping that the genuine answer to that will be, 'Well, obviously, they'll be at the front of the line for some quick catch-up of their own', if you're allowed to use the words 'catch-up' in the context of education these days. But it is a consideration, and I'm sure that both our successors will be on it, as they say, if that problem does arise.

I'm really grateful to you for your final comments on this. I understand it's quite difficult to try to introduce something specific in the course of a Bill like this one, but the role of committee is greater than it could be. I think you're quite right, the Parliament is the body that represents constituents, and we need to be able to ask the questions that they want answered. So, I hope your successor will look at this in the way that you have. I'm pretty sure that my successor is going to be delighted you've got this on the record, and if they happen to be in Government, all the better. Thank you. Diolch.

The question is that amendment 5 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes. We'll therefore move to a vote on amendment 5 in the name of Suzy Davies. Open the vote.

Close the vote.

In favour 14, three abstentions, and 37 against. Therefore, amendment 5 is not agreed.

Amendment 5: For: 14, Against: 37, Abstain: 3

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 6, Suzy Davies. Is it moved?

Amendment 6 (Suzy Davies) moved.

Yes, please.

The question is that amendment 6 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is an objection. We move to a vote on amendment 6 in the name of Suzy Davies. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 26, no abstentions, 28 against. Therefore, amendment 6 is not agreed.

Amendment 6: For: 26, Against: 28, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 7, Suzy Davies.

Amendment 7 (Suzy Davies) moved.

Yes, please.

The question is that amendment 7 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There is objection. We therefore move to a vote on amendment 7 in the name of Suzy Davies. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 14, three abstentions, and 37 against. Amendment 7 is not agreed.

Amendment 7: For: 14, Against: 37, Abstain: 3

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 8, Suzy Davies.

Amendment 8 (Suzy Davies) moved.

Yes, please.

Is there any objection to amendment 8? [Objection.] There is. We'll move to a vote on amendment 8 in the name of Suzy Davies. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 26, no abstentions, 28 against. Therefore, amendment 8 is not agreed.

Amendment 8: For: 26, Against: 28, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 9, Suzy Davies.

Amendment 9 (Suzy Davies) moved.

Is it being moved, Suzy Davies?

Yes, please.

The question is that amendment 9 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There is an objection, therefore we move to a vote on amendment 9 in the name of Suzy Davies. Close the vote. In favour 26, no abstentions, 28 against. Therefore, amendment 9 is not agreed.

Amendment 9: For: 26, Against: 28, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 10, Suzy Davies.

Amendment 10 (Suzy Davies) moved.

Moved.

The question is that amendment 10 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is an objection. We'll move to a vote on amendment 10 in the name of Suzy Davies. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 26, no abstentions, 28 against, therefore the amendment is not agreed.

Amendment 10: For: 26, Against: 28, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected

Llyr Gruffydd, amendment 54. Is it moved?

Amendment 54 (Llyr Gruffydd) moved.

Move.

The question is that amendment 54 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes. We'll therefore move to a vote on amendment 54. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 14, nine abstentions and 31 against, therefore amendment 54 is not agreed. 

Amendment 54: For: 14, Against: 31, Abstain: 9

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 42, Darren Millar. Is it moved?

Amendment 42 (Darren Millar) moved.

I move, yes. 

The question is that amendment 42 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, we'll move to a vote on amendment 42 in the name of Darren Millar. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 13, two abstentions and 39 against, therefore amendment 42 is not agreed. 

Amendment 42: For: 13, Against: 39, Abstain: 2

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 35, Gareth Bennett. Is it moved?

Amendment 35 (Gareth Bennett, supported by Mark Reckless) moved.

Yes, I move. Thank you.

The question is that amendment 35 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, we'll move to a vote on amendment 35 in the name of Gareth Bennett. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour three, three abstentions and 48 against, therefore amendment 35 is not agreed. 

Amendment 35: For: 3, Against: 48, Abstain: 3

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 36, Gareth Bennett. 

Amendment 36 (Gareth Bennett, supported by Mark Reckless) moved.

I move, Llywydd.

Thank you. The question is that amendment 36 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, we'll move to a vote on amendment 36 in the name of Gareth Bennett. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour three, three abstentions and 48 against, therefore amendment 36 is not agreed. 

Amendment 36: For: 3, Against: 48, Abstain: 3

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 37, Gareth Bennett.

I don't move it, Llywydd, or 39.

Thank you. Therefore, amendment 37 is not moved, and amendment 39 in the name of Gareth Bennett is not moved.

Amendments 37 and 39 (Gareth Bennett, supported by Mark Reckless) not moved.