We'll move on to our next statement, which is a statement by the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport on 'Llwybr Newydd: a new Wales transport strategy'. And I call on the Deputy Minister to make the statement—Lee Waters.

Diolch, Llywydd. On 19 March, I was proud to publish the Welsh Government's new Wales transport strategy. It sets what we consider to be a bold new vision for transport in Wales over the next two decades. And the context for the document is very clear: we are in the midst of a climate crisis, and it is time—indeed, it is urgent—that we turn the broad consensus that now exists for action to address it into practical and radical measures for change, and this is exactly what the document sets out to do. 

The document is called 'llwybr newydd', which means 'new path', because we have to take a new and different path to not only reduce the carbon footprint of transport in Wales, which represents some 17 per cent of our total emissions, but in doing so create a high-quality, reliable and affordable transport system that can support prosperity and equality. This is why our new strategy has modal shift at its heart. It sets out to tackle the deeply-rooted car dependency that sits at the centre of so much of modern life by encouraging fewer car journeys and by supporting the infrastructure and changes needed to encourage a much greater share of trips by sustainable forms of transport.

The strategy focuses on three simple priorities: firstly, to reduce the need to travel; secondly, to allow people and goods to move more easily from door to door by sustainable forms of transport; and, thirdly, to encourage people to make the change to more sustainable transport. The challenge of any new strategy is translating ideas into action—change that people can see and change that people can benefit from. This is why we are including clear and stretching targets for increasing the number of journeys made by bus, rail and, for local journeys, active travel. For the first time, we will increase the share of journeys made from these sustainable forms from 32 per cent today to 45 per cent by 2040, and we will go further and faster where we can, reviewing and extending these targets as we go in order to support our journey to the 2050 net-zero climate targets that we have set.

We've already begun work on the £750 million electrification of the Valleys lines that will be the foundation of the south Wales metro, we have brought our Wales and borders rail network back into public ownership, and we are taking greater control over planning our vital bus network, with new legislation being prepared for the next Government to consider. And perhaps the thing I'm most proud of: we are investing in high-quality active travel infrastructure—£75 million has been allocated in next year's Welsh Government budget, up from the £5 million that was in place at the start of this Senedd term.

Now, this strategy would have been vital before the pandemic. But COVID-19 has increased the urgency for change. For, as well as the sadness and disruption coronavirus has brought, it has significantly accelerated many of the enormous changes impacting on our society and our economy: digital change, the reshaping of town centres, as well as the very nature of work itself, will look very different coming out of this pandemic. As Members will have seen, this new strategy aims to stand alongside our new 'Future Wales' development framework, and initiatives such as our transforming towns work, in supporting the recovery and reshaping our economy after COVID.

It also complements the new ambition we have set as a Welsh Government for 30 per cent of people across Wales to work remotely. Indeed, the entire strategy is very much framed in the context of supporting other Ministers across Government and the wider partners in helping us all to use transport as an enabler of our wider, shared priorities.

As Members will see from the strategy, the other golden thread running through it is fairness. Twenty-five per cent of people in Wales do not own a car, and we have a duty to build a high-quality, affordable and reliable public transport system to support every community in Wales. Indeed, a high-quality transport system can and should be an important tool in helping support poverty reduction and regeneration in many communities in Wales hit hard by 40 years of deindustrialisation, and this we intend it to be.

This marks a significant shift in transport policy in Wales, Llywydd, one that recognises that business as usual will not do if we are to reduce transport emissions, accelerate modal shift and meet our ambitious climate change targets, which we have all committed to. That means changing the way we make investment decisions across Government. At the heart of our new approach is the new sustainable transport hierarchy, which sets out a new ordering of investment priorities for transport in Wales.

There will clearly need to be new thinking in the context of this new strategy and that new hierarchy. It is not going to be consistent to return to a predict-and-provide model of road construction as a first solution to congestion. Indeed, I think the recent Burns commission work shows that, with thought, collaboration and will, there is a way to construct an alternative, joined-up solution. But, equally, a blanket policy of simply not building new roads isn't a solution either. There will be a case for new construction in certain circumstances and there will be a clear need to fulfil our existing statutory duty to maintain the existing road network.

All of that means we need a new and intelligent framework through which to consider in what circumstances new infrastructure, including roads, is taken forward across Wales in the context of our targets, the new strategy and our new hierarchy. And I've asked officials to begin work developing that new framework and a set of metrics that can underpin new infrastructure decisions in the future. We will ask the Welsh Local Government Association and the future generations commissioner to work with us as part of this—and I believe the committees of the next Senedd must play an important part in shaping this work as well—to develop a consensus on how these new metrics can be used to achieve the target we've all committed to of net zero by 2050.

Llywydd, 'Llwybr Newydd' is a new path. Delivering on our vision will be challenging, but it'll be worth it, and I am proud to have played a part. Diolch.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Can I thank the Deputy Minister for the briefing that he provided to myself and other opposition spokespeople last week and thank his officials as well for that? I do have some specific questions, obviously, about the strategy, but I'll make some general points, as, of course, this is the end of this Government's particular term.

When it comes to transport and infrastructure, I don't think that the Deputy Minister would be surprised for me to say that I don't think that this Government has delivered at all for the people of Wales. And I noted the Deputy Minister expressed disappointment over the weekend that the £200 million investment that he had announced didn't make the news headlines, but I guess the media feel the same as me: £200 million over 20 years is a drop in the ocean compared to what is needed, I think, to invest in our transport networks and encourage the behavioural change that he wants and that I want to see as well.

As a Labour Government, I'm afraid to say you've consistently failed when it comes to putting into place solutions for congestion on the M4, the A55, the A40. We have had 20 years of discussion and consultations but no practical solutions have yet been delivered, and, whilst the Government has been dithering and delaying on any meaningful schemes, the traffic volume has increased. And I think one of the biggest failures of this administration is not delivering the M4 relief road. Your boss, the economy Minister, was in favour of the M4 relief road; your other boss, the First Minister, wasn't. It's just disorganised and disjointed, and, in that process, millions and millions of pounds of taxpayers' money have been wasted. So, I'll make it clear to the Deputy Minister and Welsh Government that my party is committed to building that M4 relief road from the £1 billion of money from the UK Government, and, if we are the next Government in Wales, we will build the M4 relief road, and, unlike the Labour Government, we will not go back on our manifesto commitment and we will deliver the M4 relief road.

I'll move on to some areas now where perhaps I can agree with the Deputy Minister—I hope I can find some areas this afternoon to do that. So, I have a range of questions about the new strategy. Certainly, I think it's well overdue, the strategy; I think the previous strategy was brought forward by Ieuan Wyn Jones. We've had a number of plans set under that strategy that have—. The current one expired some time ago, so, certainly, well out of date on bringing forward a plan. You've listed three points, very simple points, you've mentioned yourself. I can't disagree with all of them, and, if I was to be the next economy Minister, I'd be happy to adopt those three points; they're very welcome, from my perspective.

You said at the end of your statement today, Deputy Minister, that delivering it would be challenging. I agree entirely that this is particularly challenging, particularly the first priority. The first priority is, of course, to bring services to people in order to reduce the need to travel. I can agree with that, but I'm just thinking. 'What does that mean?' How will you liaise with Government colleagues and local authorities on that? I was speaking to somebody from Machynlleth the other day who has to do a 60-mile round trip to drop off their recycling—because the recycling facility closed in Machynlleth—all the way to Newtown. I was visiting Churchstoke school yesterday—walked around the village, new housing development taking place, all the children walk to school; just as on page 10 of your strategy, two children walking to school. But how is this going to work when the local authority is proposing to close that school, so those children who now walk to Churchstoke school will now be getting into a car or onto a bus to get to the nearest school? So, this is huge. Bringing services closer to people in terms of integrating planning systems and health systems is huge, and I'm just wondering what kind of buy-in you think that you've got from other departments of Welsh Government and from local authorities. And Minister, in your statement, you talk about the commitment to move away from cars to walking, and you talk about the current 32 per cent share and raising that to 45 per cent—so, very ambitious. How have you come to that figure? What's your analysis? What was your thinking to get to that figure? And also the 2040 figure—why that figure as well? No criticism; I'm just asking a question about the logic behind that.

And you talked about the shift away from the private car, and my question is: what does this mean for rural Wales? Well, you do address that, so I welcome that in your strategy. You said to increase public transport, especially in rural Wales. I was very pleased to get that—'especially in rural Wales'. 'How are you going to do that?', I suppose is the question. You have mini-plans within the strategy—

Can the Member wind up please?

Yes, Deputy Presiding Officer, I will do. How are those mini-plans going to be brought about? Are you going to be developing those, or are those the plans going forward? And finally, Deputy Minister, you talk about joining up a lot of the report as well, how did your work on the strategy link in with the National Infrastructure Commission for Wales?

Dirprwy Lywydd, a number of points to address there, and obviously I'm conscious this is the penultimate session of the Senedd before the election, and Russell George is in election mode, and I obviously factor that into my response. It's a different Russell George who chairs with great consensus the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee, and the same Russell George who signed up to a report that said we shouldn't be building new roads, we should be maintaining existing ones. So, his thinking has developed rather rapidly in the last couple of years.

He says we haven't delivered for his constituents, and I certainly seem to remember him welcoming the Newtown bypass, but again, his thinking developed rather rapidly in the couple of years since then too.

He's wrong to say that the £200 million is over 20 years, it's not. It's for next year, and we are putting our money where our mouth is. We are putting investment in behind the priorities in the Wales transport strategy around modal shift. We are prioritising public transport and active travel, and we are continuing where we have commitments for road-building schemes as well. This is a mixed approach.

But he says, were he Minister, he would deliver the three priorities in the plan—he agreed with the thrust. But the whole premise of the plan is to deliver modal shift targets, is to reduce car use. So, he's complaining on the one hand that we are not—. He says traffic volumes are increasing, he says we haven't built the infrastructure, he says he agrees with the plan to reduce car use, but then criticises us for not building more roads. So, there's a muddle of thinking there, if he doesn't mind me saying so. Those things are not compatible.

If we are going to achieve net zero by 2050, the evidence is very clear: we have to reduce car use. The figures in the strategy commit to a 5 per cent reduction in car mileage by 2030. Now, that is going in the opposite direction than we've been going, but it is not particularly radical bearing in mind the Scottish Government over the same period are looking for a 20 per cent reduction in car mileage use. So, it is going to be a challenging target to achieve, but it is not as radical as it might have been. We did look at a range of scenarios, and we went for the most conservative of the scenarios. Now, whether or not that can be sustained in the light of the evidence as we go forward and as we meet our targets, that remains to be seen, but it's putting us on a new path, and that's the important thing. So, the figures that we've come to—he asks how we get those figures—they were based on substantial analysis for us of the different trajectories to meet the climate change goals, and this was seen to be achievable, a stretch, but an achievable target to get us onto the right path.

He asks what does it mean for rural Wales; well, I did provide him with a report that we had commissioned on a particular set of breakdowns for rural Wales and what this would be like, and I'd be happy to provide that to the committee as well, even though it's a little late in the day. But I think it does show that we have put a lot of thought into how we can get this trajectory delivered, but it is going to be a challenge for the whole Senedd. I would say to Members, it is no good any of us signing up to climate change targets and then resiling from the practical impact of the measures we need to put in place to achieve that. It's all very well for us to play to the gallery on local schemes that are long-cherished in many parts of Wales, but if we're going to put us on a different path, that means a different set of approaches, and we need the courage of our convictions to see that through. I'm sorry that Russell George's thinking has developed quite a bit, I might suggest, but I think there's a way to go if he's sincere about delivering the targets he signed up to.

I believe we might have lost connection with mission control.

Can we have Alun Davies's mike switched on? Alun Davies.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Minister, I very much welcome the statement you've made this afternoon, and welcome what lies behind it as well. I think it is a refreshing statement that certainly creates a very real vision for the future.

There are three things I'd like to raise with you after the statement. It will be no surprise to you that I very much welcome the funding for the rail enhancements on the Ebbw valley line. This is something that we've been arguing for and campaigning for for some time. The UK Government has walked away from its responsibilities on rail for some time, and it's good to see the Welsh Government stepping in and doing the UK's job for it, and I appreciate that very much. It would be useful for us to understand—this may be something that you would wish to write to me and other Members on—how you see the £70 million unlocking further developments on the line over the coming years, now that we can see the movement towards four trains an hour, other enhancements such as the station in Abertillery and other matters, and how you see development on the line through the next Senedd.

The second question is on the bus industry. I very much agree with the approach being taken by the Welsh Government on the re-regulation of buses. I think the deregulation of the 1980s has been one of the most catastrophic and long-lasting failures of the Thatcher Governments, but the bus industry itself is an industry that's on the edge. We've seen a number of different companies falling into bankruptcy and administration over recent years, and the Welsh Government already spends a huge amount of funding on bus services. And it might well be that the economy of buses at the moment isn't working, and it would be useful to understand how the Welsh Government sees the re-regulation in economic terms and not simply in terms of service enhancement, because there's clearly a structural issue in the economy of bus services at the moment that we need to address.

And the final question is this on active travel. I very much agree with the thrust of policy in this area, but it will be no surprise to the Minister—I have raised this with him before—that it is considerably easier to cycle your way around a city on a coastal plain than it is to cycle your way around Blaenau Gwent in the Heads of the Valleys. Where I'm sitting here at the moment, I've got Sirhowy hill just to my east, and if I wanted to visit the Aneurin Bevan memorial, which is probably about 1.5 km from where I'm sitting at the moment, it would involve quite a considerable hill to get there, and also to get to my nearest supermarket. So, how do you ensure that active travel isn't simply a policy of the cities and the suburban commuter belt in and around Cardiff, Swansea or Newport, and that it is actually something that those of us who live in the Valleys—and in the Heads of the Valleys in this instance—are able to enjoy as well, because at the moment I worry that the policy is too focused on the cities, and not focused enough on the towns of Wales?

Thank you. A good set of challenging questions there. We are delighted that we're able to provide the £70 million to accelerate the delivery of the Ebbw Vale lines, that services at last can go to Newport as well as to Cardiff, and this, of course, was one of the key recommendations of the Burns report. We are very keen that the Burns report is not a report that sits on a shelf, that there is action behind it, pace and momentum behind it. And in that vein, I'm very pleased to be able to tell the Senedd today that we have created a delivery board, and that we've appointed Simon Gibson as the chair of that delivery board to hold our feet to the fire. He is certainly not an uncritical friend of the Welsh Government, and he's been deliberately appointed as somebody who will make sure that there is pace. And I'm also very pleased to say that Dr Lynn Sloman, who was a member of the Burns commission and a leading practitioner of sustainable transport, has agreed to be vice-chair of that delivery board. So, I think the two of them make a very powerful combination to make sure that the actions and recommendations of the Burns report are delivered. We start off with a significant package of new electric buses, of active travel and, of course, of the Ebbw Vale enhancement now. 

I should also say this is an indictment of the UK Government. Rail infrastructure is not devolved. The Ebbw Vale enhancement should have been funded by the UK Government. We are already dramatically underfunded, as the work from Cardiff University's Wales Governance Centre showed just this week on railway infrastructure, and over the next 10-year control period Wales is getting £5 billion less than we should be getting out of the UK Government. So, it does stick in the throat that on top of that existing underfunding, we've had to dip into devolved funds to fund a non-devolved piece of work, and bearing in mind what was said by the First Minister earlier on the range of responsibilities we are stepping into to compensate for the UK Government's disinterest in Wales, when they are telling us, as a Conservative Party, that they would no longer fund non-devolved activities. So, this is yet another example of where the Tories would not be funding this Ebbw Vale enhancement measure, consistent with their policy position.

On buses, there is a significant programme of reform that is required. As I mentioned, the next Senedd will have from the Welsh Government a draft, or the Welsh Government will have a Bill that they can consider taking forward. The emergency bus scheme that we brought forward under COVID has enabled us to make great progress in terms of our relationship with the bus industry through the support we've had to put in to stop the private sector going bankrupt. We've been able to get a something-for-something relationship out of them to make sure that they commit to doing a wider package of responsibilities for the funding that they will be getting, and Transport for Wales is currently beginning a piece of significant work on planning what a future network would look like. So, there's a lot of work under way already, and there's much more to do to make sure we can have an integrated transport system, as is much discussed. So, that is an integral part of that package.

And then, finally, on the active travel challenge, which I think is an understandable one, I would say a couple of things. It absolutely is not an urban agenda. The work that's informed the Wales transport strategy shows that in order to achieve carbon reduction, electric cars will play their role, of course, but we can't rely on electric cars; we have to have modal shift, and that's going to fall heavily on public transport, principally buses, but also active travel too, for those short journeys. Ten per cent of car journeys are under a mile. Something like half of car journeys are under five miles. Now, for some people—not for everyone, but for some people—those journeys are switchable to active travel.

Now, to Alun Davies's point I would say two things. You look back 50 years ago in Blaenau Gwent and the levels of cycling were significantly higher than they are now. The hills haven't appeared overnight. A lot of this is about perception and it's about culture and it's about habit, and certainly our health conditions have worsened in that time, and I don't think these two things are unrelated. In fact, there is strong evidence to show that they're not. But I do think electric bikes offer a real, practical way forward for lots of areas, particularly hilly areas and for rural and semi-rural areas. We've just announced a pilot project, trialling, in fact, in hilly areas, in Barry and in Swansea in the first instance, targeting more deprived areas, a low-cost loans scheme that Sustrans are managing on our behalf, targeting deprived communities to try and get people to take up electric bike use, and then a similar project using e-cargo bikes to try and get small businesses to use electric bikes for those last-mile deliveries in Aberystwyth and one other town that I've temporarily forgotten—apologies. But if that is successful, then I think we should be rolling that out into communities like Blaenau Gwent and as part—. With the right infrastructure in place to convince people it's a safe environment, plus the electric bikes, I think there is significant potential for modal change.

We've heard already, Minister, how Burns offers a blueprint for the sort of integrated transport system that we need to move to, and I'm very keen on that blueprint. I'm very keen on the new rail stations that are proposed in Newport East, such as the walkway station at Magor, which I know you're familiar with and is very innovative, and also at Somerton and Llanwern. We can have a bus interchange at Newport train station, which will also help with modal shift and which will be very significant and a possible early win, I think, and there are impressive active travel developments in train. So, I think we're fairly well set, Minister, but I just wonder whether there's any update you could give us, returning to the role of the UK Government, because we need that upgrade into the main line and the relief lines if we're really going to get the frequency of service and the opportunity for people to make that modal shift in the numbers and to the extent that we need. So, I'd be grateful if you could give us any update on the willingness of the UK Government to play their part. 

In terms of the pandemic, Minister, and air pollution, we've seen a reduction in air pollution. People have very much appreciated that and they have reconnected with nature. I think that's all to the good in terms of public support for the integrated system that we need. I just wonder whether there might be some further Welsh Government funding for electric buses—we've seen some impressive numbers coming into operation in Newport—and also for conversion of taxi fleets to more environmentally friendly, low-emission fuels. Because these taxis are around our town and city centres throughout the day and night, and if they were converted to friendlier fuels, as it were, I think that would be a further important gain in our efforts to tackle air pollution.

To take those questions in reverse order, we have provided Newport Bus with a £2 million loan to buy a fleet of electric buses for the city to replace their ageing fleet, which I think is very welcome. But clearly, there is a big challenge for the whole industry to convert to electric buses over the period of this document, and that is a significant challenge for them. We are looking to try and cross-fertilise my ministerial responsibilities for the foundational economy. We are looking at this as an opportunity to build these buses in Wales. We know we are building trains in Newport as part of the new franchise; we'd like to be building the buses too, and there's an opportunity for demand aggregation, as it's called in the jargon—trying to bring the bus companies together to agree a package of work, and we can then find Welsh manufacturers to step in to create jobs locally, as well as providing the necessary change in technologies that we need to see to meet the carbon targets. So, again, there are opportunities for green and local jobs as part of this necessary climate response as well.

In terms of the willingness of the UK Government to do its part in delivering the Burns review, I think that is a good question; it remains a moot point. I do note, as the First Minister said in his questions, that the union connectivity review by Sir Peter Hendy, which came out in the last few weeks, was very positive about the Burns report. And certainly, in the conversation he had with my colleague Ken Skates, he was very complimentary about the work of the Burns commissioners and the report that they produced. He certainly was complimentary also about the impact that devolution has had, unlike Russell George, in delivering transport—he said that devolution had been a positive thing for the delivery of transport. The question remains what ministerial appetite there is at Westminster to deliver on the findings of that report. Their initial response wasn't that encouraging, because they immediately abandoned the report and started talking about the M4 relief road even though the report had said nothing at all about that. So, the UK Government, once the election is out of the way, I hope, will buckle down and get to the serious business of delivery and confront the fact that they've been shirking their responsibilities to date.

On the first point about the rail infrastructure development, I joined, at his invitation, a meeting with the Magor walkway station group last month and was very impressed by the work that they had done as a community movement to make the case for a unique station that didn't have car parking facilities, because it was within a mile of most of the population of Magor on the main line already. I was very keen for us to support that project, and, in fact, it is one of the packages of work that the Burns delivery unit is currently scoping out, along with, as you mentioned, Somerton and Llanwern. I think there is an exciting package of work for the people of Newport from the Burns commission to deliver what, frankly, a city the size of Newport should have had in the first place, which is a modern public transport network.

But this, I'm afraid, is a reflection of the sort of underinvestment we've had in railways for a number of years, which leaves the city of Newport without the basic infrastructure to allow people to make everyday journeys by public transport. That's what we've got to put right, and I think that's what we've got to demonstrate to the people of Newport—that we will take it seriously and will do so with pace and with urgency. The UK Government must play its part in that, and so far, they're not doing so.

Can I thank the Deputy Minister for his statement this afternoon? Also, can I acknowledge both Lee Waters's and Ken Skates's personal commitment to the cause of carbon-free transport? One cannot doubt that the aims outlined in this report are, indeed, laudable aims. We all want to see a greater use of public transport, more active travel and less use of cars, and where it is not possible to replace car transport, as many as possible should be electric. In fact, my colleague Caroline Jones has just shown her commitment by purchasing such a vehicle. It is comforting to see that there will be substantial financial backing towards achieving these ambitious goals. I particularly welcome the £70 million interest-free loan to Blaenau Gwent borough council to make improvements to the Ebbw Vale line, but can I ask whether this loan will be ring-fenced? 

As one can see, I wish to support these ambitions in their entirety. However, can I issue a note of warning? The transition from car to alternative forms of transport must be gradual. People must be encouraged to make the switch, not penalised for not doing so. There are many who will never be able to use public transport for work purposes, and many more outside urban areas who will not be able to switch to the bicycle to access their work. It is therefore essential that any punitive measures taken by the Government to help implement their ambitions must take these factors into consideration. Would the Minister, please, address this? 

We must remember that there are many in society who would relish the opportunity to switch to a brand-new electric car, but who are far too financially impoverished to be able to do so. We have to accept that there will be many old cars on our roads for some time to come, simply because many cannot afford better but will still have to use them for both leisure and work. Focusing on electric cars, we will have to have a substantial increase in charging facilities across not only Wales but the UK as a whole if we are to see an exponential take-up in their use. We also have to contend with the fact that the grid system in Wales will not—

The Member does need to wind up, please.

[Inaudible.]—use of electric vehicles. Has the Welsh Government sought help from the UK Government to implement these?

One final point. Reducing the speed limit in urban areas to 20 mph will not help reduce carbon emissions but, as the ministry of transport figures prove, will increase carbon emissions. Why does the Welsh Government ignore this paradox with a proposed implementation of those limits throughout Wales? Again, Llywydd, thank you.

You were doing so well there. Up until the last point, I was encouraged. Whenever I hear David Rowlands welcome laudable aims, I'm waiting for a big 'but', and we got the 'but' at the end with his campaign against our effort to try and save children's lives from being killed unnecessarily on the road. Certainly, the evidence that came out of our own review on 20 mph default urban speed limits did not support the view that they significantly increased emissions.

Just to go through some of the other points, the loan has been agreed with Blaenau Gwent council, it has been committed to the task at hand, and we're working closely with them. I do agree with his point on the gradual shift out of car use towards alternatives, and it is clearly not something that applies to every journey. We're not saying that people must never use cars again. Clearly, the car is the most practical option for some journeys, but, for most journeys—the research is quite clear on this—sustainable transport is a realistic option, providing the infrastructure is in place, the services are in place, and the information and the incentives are in place to encourage people to make that shift. There are bags of evidence and experience of where that can happen. Where there's a will, there's a way. There's no need for punitive language; this isn't a punitive choice. Done properly, this can enhance and improve people's lives and improve people's journeys, reduce people's stress and improve people's health—bus users walk more than car users. So, it is good for a whole range of public health targets that we have. He is right to say that it's not going to be suitable for all, but we don't need it to be done by everybody to achieve our targets. As I say, we're talking about a 5 per cent reduction in car mileage by 2030; this is not beyond what can be achieved, for sure.

His point on electric cars being expensive is also a sound one. This is why we want to make sure that there is an affordable and realistic alternative through public transport. I think what we really want to see is for people not to need to have multiple cars per household. So, things like car clubs and car sharing, for example, instead of a second or third car in a household, are realistic things that that can bring people along the behaviour change spectrum with us in a way that doesn't feel like it's making their choices restrictive. In fact, it's giving them extra choices and freeing up money for them, because a car is the second most expensive capital purchase a householder will make next to a house, as I'm sure Caroline Jones has just discovered.

I think that this report is absolutely excellent. It's so coherent and fits so well with the NHS recovery plan and the 'town centre first'. So, I congratulate you on that. I just want to pick up on a couple of points, having listened carefully to what you've said with other earlier speakers. It isn't just in rural areas that people don't have a bus. There are parts, even, of my inner-city constituency that don't have any buses serving elderly people who can't walk a mile to get a bus. So, we've got quite a challenge that I presume can only be resolved once we've regulated the bus services, because otherwise, we're simply having people chasing the same cherry-picking routes. If we're thinking about building the buses we need in the future in Wales, which I completely support, would you be thinking in terms of different sizes of bus for less popular, less populated routes? And what would be the fuel that you were thinking of using for all these buses? Is it electric or is it hydrogen? It seems to me that, as part of our zero-carbon pledges, we need to be thinking now about this. And the second point I just wanted to ask you about, really, is how we are going to achieve the cultural shift required so that in an urban place like Cardiff, we have to assume that most pupils will be able to bicycle to school.

Can I first of all pay a very sincere tribute to Jenny Rathbone for the campaigning she's done on this agenda throughout her entire time as a Member of the Senedd? She has been ahead of the pack as a persistent advocate for the need to shift to sustainable transport, and so I am pleased that she is here to welcome this report as a realisation of many of the themes that she's been calling for successive Welsh Governments to take up. I'm pleased on her behalf that she's able to be here to be part of this joint endeavour.

On her points on the bus network, as I said, there are two things going on. One is that TfW are modelling what a comprehensive local bus network would look like, and we're going to be building that, hopefully, over the next Government—I hope we'll be building that into the franchises as it is designed, to make sure that there is a coverage for the whole area, so that it is a realistic alternative for most people. But in that mix is that concept of what a modern bus service looks like, and we are piloting, as Jenny Rathbone knows, our Fflecsi demand-responsive bus service. We're doing that in Newport and we're doing it in different settings across Wales, some rural, semi-rural and urban, to see how it responds in different settings. That is about having a non-scheduled bus, an on-demand bus, which can then either do direct door-to-door drops or can feed into a spine of a scheduled service. We've seen that through the Bwcabus project for some years in north Carmarthenshire and southern Cardigan. It's an updating of that concept with modern technology, and the early results of the pilots are very encouraging. In fact, it is proving too popular for the service we've got in place. So, I think the notion about what a bus service looks like will evolve quite quickly, and I think we are at the vanguard of developing some of those different models. In terms of what fuel they use, that is a good question. Clearly, we'd want to minimise the impact of fuel, so we are looking at electric buses, we are looking at smaller buses, and I believe biofuel is also part of the mix in some settings. She rightly points to hydrogen being a proven carrier of energy that is useful for battery storage, and that's part of the work that we are developing through our hydrogen plan.

And then her point on the cultural shift needed for cycling to school. If you look at the announcement we've made on active travel this year, the schools work is perhaps the most important and the most challenging, and getting education departments and transport departments to see this as a joint endeavour is a challenge for us. That's not traditionally something education has been interested in doing, and that needs to change. I must pay tribute to Cardiff Council. Under the leadership of Huw Thomas and Caro Wild, they've been doing excellent work over the last couple of years—really, the leading authority in Wales on this—putting—. Not only have they been successful in attracting Welsh Government funding, but putting significant funding of their own in, and putting hard measures—the infrastructure measures—alongside the soft measures, the behaviour change interventions, particularly in schools. And that, I think, is going to reap dividends, because you do need to have the hard and the soft together. That is one of the weaknesses and challenges of our approach as a Welsh Government. It is harder for us to find revenue funding than it is to find capital funding in this area, and we know that without both we're not going to be able to achieve what we want to achieve. So, we hope this year we will be able to dedicate about 10 per cent of the £75 million towards behaviour change work, but it needs to be more than that in future years to meet the challenge Jenny Rathbone has rightly set.

Minister, thank you for your statement and for your thoughts on how we can promote better and more sustainable public transport in the future. By the way, you mentioned electric bikes earlier in your statement and it reminded me of a bike ride that we both went on down the Wye Valley some years back, when you were working with Sustrans. I remember us talking then about the potential in the future for modernising the cycling infrastructure, so I'm pleased that you carried on with that passion into Government.

Two areas, if I may: can I also welcome the Burns review and the Minister's commitment to reducing carbon emissions? You've mentioned Newport extensively, and it's been raised, really, by many Members, and you've said that it needs a modern transport infrastructure and it's waited too long for that. I'd certainly agree with that, and the people of Newport would agree with that. But also rural areas need infrastructure as well. My constituency is just north of Newport, but it's particularly poorly served by, certainly, bus services; train services—we've only got one, the main line to Hereford. After 6.00 p.m., it's very difficult to get back from Newport station, if you want to commute from Newport station to my constituency. I've raised this with the economy Minister, with Ken Skates, many times, so I'll raise it with you as well: how are we getting on with developing the metro network and potentially developing a hub at the Celtic Manor so that we can improve links from Newport into deeper rural areas in my constituency and beyond after 6.00 p.m., so that if people do want to commute by public transport they can?

And secondly, electric cars: yes, you're right that cars are appropriate for some journeys. In rural areas, they're particularly important. I know what you mean about not wanting to have multi-car households, and it would be desirable just to have one car per household, but, in rural areas, that's often very difficult, particularly with some of the larger families. So, what are you doing to improve the electric car infrastructure in rural areas? Only a couple of years ago, a new electric charging station that was planned—a planning application went in for one in Monmouth, and that was turned down, I think on the basis of a conflict with technical advice note 15 at the time. I think that the planning system needs to recognise that we do need this electric car charging infrastructure, but it needs to make sure that there aren't obstacles put in the way developing that, so that, both in terms of public transport and the electric car system infrastructure moving forward, we can get on with the job of providing a greener, more sustainable, more durable and cleaner transport infrastructure.

Thank you very much, and that contribution just underlines I think how much we will miss the reasoned and reasonable tone of Nick Ramsay's contributions from the Conservative benches, and I wish him well.

Just to address his points: the rural challenge is a very real one, but it is an absolutely achievable one. So, as I've said, we've commissioned a piece of work, which we'll happily publish, on what a package of rural measures looks like, because it'll be different from urban measures, for sure, but it's still achievable, and, if you look at what is currently happening in rural Germany, in rural Switzerland, where, absolutely, there is a bus network where every village has a service every hour, that is what we should be aiming towards. Clearly, we're some way off that, but, if we're going to achieve this strategy over the lifetime of this plan, then we have to be aiming for that, and that is going to require a shift of resources towards public transport to achieve the modal shift target. So, there is a set of measures that we can do, and, again, active travel and electric bikes form part of that, as does the Fflecsi demand-responsive bus service. So, there is a range of realistic and proven measures that can work in a rural setting to achieve these targets there too.

In terms of the work on the metro, that is continuing apace, and TfW remain—. Clearly, COVID has had some impact on that, but it is still broadly on track. I'm not sure what the status of the Celtic Manor interchange is, but I will happily send him a note on that. Then, in terms of electric, we have just published our electric charging plan, which does aim for access for all cars in Wales to charging infrastructure by 2025, which is a significant challenge, given where we're starting from. It is, again, the role of the UK Government to provide this infrastructure. The Welsh Government, as we do on many of these things, looks to see where we can provide gap interventions, but it is for the—. This is a non-devolved area. There is funding going through the ultra-low emission vehicles scheme at the moment, but we face a significant challenge. So, for example, just to give you a sense of the challenge, by 2030 we need an increase in our rapid charging infrastructure by a factor of 10 to 20. That's in nine years' time. So, we really do have to pull our finger out on getting the infrastructure in place to give people the confidence to make the shift to electric cars. As I say, our strategy sets out how we intend to do that, and we hope the UK Government will add value further.

Thank you, Deputy Minister.