3. Will the Minister make a statement on the use of fire-and-rehire practices by companies in receipt of Welsh Government funding? OQ56538

I want to be clear, as the First Minister was yesterday, that the Welsh Government condemns the use of fire and rehire as a negotiating tactic and employment practice. The threat of redundancy to impose inferior pay, terms and conditions on workers does not accord our fair work and social partnership values, and is inconsistent with the ethos of the economic contract. 

I think many of us in the Chamber will welcome that clarity. And, Minister, unfortunately, the repugnant use of fire and rehire is growing. Only a month ago, 140 MPs and Lords joined a campaign, led by the TUC and around 20 major unions in this country, including Unite, GMB, community, the FSB—most of the major unions—to stop employers raiding wages, cutting sick pay terms and conditions and undermining workers' rights at work. They called on the UK Government to use the Queen's Speech in May to stop this practice of fire and rehire, but those calls were ignored.

Now, employment law, of course, is not devolved to Wales, but we do have some powerful tools to hand, including the social partnership approach and ethical procurement, which turned the spotlight previously on companies who had used construction blacklists to absolutely beggar the lives of workers within the construction industry. So, Minister, what more can we do to stamp out the use of hire and fire in Wales, where companies are in receipt of public funds, and is there anything we could look at in the social partnership legislation going forward, too?

Yes, and I recognise the point the Member makes. I remember as a backbencher raising issues about the construction workers' blacklist and the direct impact that had on the lives of workers in Wales and beyond. So, we are going to look to use the levers, both practical that we have and influential, to try to move employers in Wales to a position where they understand the view of the Welsh Government and what that means for their engagement with us. So, the economic contract, it's very clear about committing to fair work principles, and if people want continuing support, they're going to need to take account of that. And this goes back to the point about, even though we don't have the legislative powers, we have practical levers that should help to move us forward. And I do look forward to making progress on procurement and social partnership, because that will involve us taking forward the fair work agenda, and Members will have the opportunity to scrutinise the approach in legislation about those fair work principles and what it will mean. So, I look forward to Members getting involved and engaging in that to make sure we have the best piece of legislation that should then make a practical difference about how the Welsh Government engages in financial, loan support and practical support for companies and businesses, and I believe that will really improve the world of work here in Wales.

Let me first of all congratulate you, Minister, on your appointment. I don't think I've had an opportunity to do that yet, so congratulations to you.

Of course, this item was raised yesterday in FMQs, and it is an important issue. We had some positive contributions from Mr Hedges and Mr Davies, my colleague here, and the First Minister obviously responded yesterday, but this was before further commitments and proposals made by UK Government in Parliament yesterday afternoon. And I'm sure you were encouraged to hear the UK Government's continued commitment to stamp out these unscrupulous practices. And, indeed, yesterday, the First Minister referred to the hope that the UK Government would take account of the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service's review and lead to legislative action, which the UK Government yesterday confirmed their commitment to the employment Bill, and also to the single enforcement body as well. I'm sure you'd welcome that action by the UK Government. So, in light of that, and in light of the statements yesterday by the UK Government, what further discussions will you be having with the UK Government to continue this good work in seeing this legislation over the line?

I think there is—. It's often the case that there are positive signals given, as in this case—and I welcome the Member to the Chamber and to questions; I look forward to working with him in this role, as indeed moving on from his time as the leader of Conwy County Borough Council. Look, I welcome the fact that if the single enforcement body is going to be effective, that will be a good thing. That would help not just in this area, but a range of others too. An employment Bill that helps to move things forward—that, again, would be a good thing, and depending on the measures, there could be support from the Welsh Government for those measures. The challenge though is that the ACAS report did set out that there were legislative options available, and today, the Prime Minister has confirmed again that whilst he believes that hire and fire can be an unscrupulous practice, there is no commitment at present to specific legislative proposals. And the danger is, in asking ACAS to review the guidance, that won't necessarily change what happens as a matter of practice. Because employment law, as Huw Irranca-Davies said, is not devolved, if it's not unlawful, then even matters of good practice don't necessarily stop those employers that even now have gone ahead making really difficult choices that are, in plain sight, all about driving down terms and conditions. So, there are some points that we can welcome and I'm happy to do so, there are other points where we still think the UK Government needs to go further, including legislation to outlaw unscrupulous hire-and-fire practices.