3. Statement by the First Minister: The Programme for Government

– in the Senedd at 3:06 pm on 15 June 2021.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 3:06, 15 June 2021

(Translated)

The next item is that statement by the First Minister on the programme for government. First Minister Mark Drakeford.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Llywydd. Today, less than six weeks after the election, this new Welsh Labour Government's programme for government has been published. This is an ambitious and radical plan that delivers on the manifesto promises that we made during the election. It will help us create a stronger, greener and fairer Wales. The programme for government is being published much earlier than in the past, and that's because of the challenges we face in Wales and the need to tackle them with urgency. These are challenges that are unprecedented that have been caused by the ongoing impact of the pandemic, leaving the European Union, and, of course, climate change. This Government is determined to get to work on these issues and to start achieving the commitments that we made to and for our country.

Llywydd, the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 provides a unique framework for Wales, and a number of those who are still here in this sixth Senedd helped to place it on the statute book. We are only temporary custodians of the wonderful country that we live in, and we all have a duty to make Wales a better and stronger place for our children. We publish today the well-being objectives that are required under the Act in order to reaffirm again the central part the Act plays in our thinking and our policies.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:08, 15 June 2021

Llywydd, this programme for government is built around those well-being objectives; a set of objectives intended to maximise our contribution to the well-being goals and deliver actions over this Government term that will leave a positive legacy for future generations. 

We start this sixth Senedd still in the midst of a public health emergency and still living with restrictions and measures to protect our public health. Cases may have fallen markedly, but the emergence and spread of the new delta variant is a sobering reminder that the pandemic has not gone away. It's a pandemic that has had an enormous impact on us all and on every part of our lives. It has laid bare the deepening inequalities in our society. Our brilliant vaccination programme offers us a different relationship with the virus, but we will be living with it and with the many consequences of it for some time to come.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:10, 15 June 2021

Our programme for government therefore is, first and foremost, about recovering from the pandemic, about ensuring our NHS can care for everyone who needs its help, especially all those who are struggling with mental health problems and with prolonged pain. It is also about supporting children and young people who have had their education disrupted over the last 15 months. No-one here, across this whole Chamber, wants a single child's future to be blighted because of the pandemic. And that is why there is a catch-up programme for education, and a young person's guarantee of an offer of training, education or work for everyone under 25 in this programme for government. And because this has been an economic emergency as well as a public health crisis, the programme for government also sets out our determination to go on supporting businesses to full recovery, and then to create that fairer economic future for Wales where no-one is left behind and no-one is held back.

And then, at the heart of this programme for government, Llywydd, and at the heart of this Government, is the urgent need to respond to that other great emergency of our time: the emergency of biodiversity loss and of climate change. Six weeks ago, a ministry for climate change was established, bringing together housing, transport, planning, energy and the environment—a clear signal that we will use all the powers we have to play our part in tackling the climate and nature emergencies.

This programme for government sets out the key areas where we will make the greatest difference in shaping Wales's future, and the actions we will take to deliver the change we have been trusted to deliver. The green industries of the future that will create new jobs and opportunities for people in every part of Wales. This Government will invest in these industries and build a new green economy constructed on the foundations of fair work, equality and sustainability. We will launch a new 10-year Wales infrastructure investment plan to support a zero-carbon economy, and deliver our transport and digital strategies to re-energise communities and make Wales a better, greener place to live and to work. That green transformation will include championing locally-generated renewable energy, introducing that clean air Act for Wales and designating the first new national park in Wales for 65 years. We will promote local green spaces, reduce waste and continue our work on a national forest that will reach across the whole of Wales. We will make sure that our farmers have a key role to play in our green future, and that the homes we build will be low-carbon homes. We will promote and support the Wales Trades Union Congress's plans for green representatives in all work places, extending our social partnership agenda to capture the vital contribution of workers and workplaces to tackling climate change.

And this Government will continue to challenge embedded power structures and push for fair pay. We will implement our race equality action plan, and address the systemic causes of racism, tackle the stigma of HIV and address the structures that disable too many of our fellow citizens. We will also continue to treasure the Welsh language and culture, as well as our dynamic and vibrant tourism, sports and arts industries. We will continue to work towards our goal of a million Welsh speakers by 2050, taking legislative action to do so, and support people to find affordable homes in the communities in which they have grown up.

Llywydd, this year has shown the full value of a distinctly Welsh tradition of volunteering and community organisation, and we will continue to ensure that local organisations and local democracy can thrive. Our plans permanently to embed the remote working practices we have learned over the past 15 months will allow us to make our communities even better places to live, but also to work.

This Government will also lead a forward-looking and inclusive conversation with the people of Wales about our constitutional future, including through an independent commission. At the same time, we will continue to strengthen our position on the world stage, using our global networks to work for a better Wales and for a better future for the world.

Across all of these areas, we will need to be radical, forward-thinking and determined to achieve the far-reaching change that is needed. That is why, Llywydd, the programme for government contains nearly 100 key and cross-cutting commitments that require the attention and the action of the whole Government. Around 150 more, equally important, commitments are identified to be taken forward by Ministers in their own portfolios. Every one of these commitments will help us deliver on the promises we made in our manifesto, making those practical changes that deliver change for people across our nation.

Llywydd, let me end where I began. This programme for government reinforces the importance that this Government attaches to the well-being of future generations Act, its seven goals and its five ways of working. The well-being objectives and the well-being statement that accompanies them demonstrate our commitment to make the Act bite not simply on the processes of Government, but on the actions that we will pursue over this Senedd term. Where there are others in this Chamber who have an appetite to work constructively to pursue and, indeed, improve the proposals we have put forward, they will find this Government keen to engage positively with them. These actions, then, set out in the programme prioritise kindness and collaboration over division and competition. They are rooted in the preferences and choices made by people in Wales on 6 May, and it's in that spirit, Llywydd, that I commend the document to the Senedd.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 3:17, 15 June 2021

Thank you, First Minister, for your statement this afternoon and the document that was released this morning that we've had a chance now to read—all 17 pages of the programme for government that is available for Members and the public. Obviously, the public did vote for the Labour Party to be the Government here on 6 May, I accept that, and the questions—[Interruption.] I recognise that; I'm not disputing that, and the questions I put to you—[Interruption.] The questions I put to you today aren't out of churlishness, they are to try and seek more information on the commitments that you've made within your programme for government, in particular when it comes to health, for example, where the programme for government doesn't even mention the 12,000 extra members of the NHS staff that you're looking to recruit over this term that we know the NHS will require. Can you give us more information as to will they be in the early part of this Senedd term, or will it be over the whole part of the Assembly term that you will be looking to recruit these 12,000 additional hands to help our wonderful NHS, because we know the demands from the waiting lists are great? And also, can you give us information as to what programme the Government is putting in place to deal with those waiting times, because the programme for government does not touch on the specific plans about dealing with the near 600,000 people that are on a waiting list here in Wales.

When it comes to education, the programme for government talks about 1,800 tutors being put into the education system here in Wales. Can you give us an indication again of when those tutors are likely to be integrated into the educational establishments here in Wales? Because we know that the catch-up programme is desperately needed here in Wales, and, again, those extra hands within our education system are vital so that pupils who have missed out over the last 12 months can benefit from that catch-up programme that you referred to. Also, the programme for government talks about the reform of the school day and term. Is this just a specific part of the catch-up programme, or is it more of a fundamental change to the way education is delivered here in Wales? If it is more of a fundamental change, can you indicate how that change will be delivered and at what point in the Senedd term more proposals will be coming forward, so that we can scrutinise those proposals?

When it comes to the economy, the Labour manifesto talked about a stronger and better-paid workforce in Wales. It is vital for us to understand how the proposals within the programme for government will close the wage gap that exists between Welsh workers and other workers in the United Kingdom, which we know has grown over the first 21 years of devolution. So, can you explain to us how this programme for government will close that wage gap that now seeks to discriminate against Welsh workers as opposed to other workers in other parts of the United Kingdom? And can you indicate where you believe gross value added will be in 2026, at the end of this Senedd term? When you were an adviser to the Welsh Government and the then First Minister, the first Labour Government did put GVA targets there so that we, as an opposition, could scrutinise the progress of that particular Government. I note from this particular programme for government that targets are sorely missing, and it would be beneficial to understand, especially when it comes to the economy, how much ambition you have for the economy here in Wales.

House building is of critical importance if we're to close the gap in the aspirations of people wishing to have their own home and the reality of people having a roof over their heads. I welcome the point about 20,000 new social houses being part of the programme for government, but can you inform us: is that an additional 20,000 social homes that would be constructed on the instructions of the Welsh Government, or is it part of the overall planning process that sees section 106 obligations instruct builders to build those homes? Because we do know that, from completions here in Wales, the market is far short of being fulfilled at the moment. We need about 10,000 to 12,000 completions a year and, at the moment, only about 6,000 completions are happening here in Wales. There are, in fact, more empty homes in Wales than there are second homes. It is important we understand what policy the Government has to bring those empty homes back into beneficial use. And I note the programme for government doesn't talk at all about that particular aspect. 

When it comes to local government, the programme for government talks about council tax reform and, indeed, reforming the voting system. Are you in a position to enlighten us as to exactly what these reforms might look like this afternoon? Because they are fundamental to the make-up of local government here in Wales and, in particular, as we have local government elections here in Wales, I assume such reforms will be focused on the 2027 local government elections, rather than the 2022 local government elections. 

We fully support the clean air Act. We believe that that's a vital piece of legislation that needs to be put on the statute book, but I'll leave my comments on the legislative proposals to the statement that the First Minister has already alluded to, which will come later in the parliamentary term. 

When it comes to flooding, the programme for government talks about 45,000 homes being protected by additional measures. I'd be grateful to understand how the programme for government has identified only 45,000 homes needing that protection, when we know all parts of Wales suffer from chronic flooding episodes because of the very issue that the First Minister has rightly identified as being one of the greatest challenges we face—climate change. And so I'd like to understand why 45,000 homes and the areas that have been identified for that future flooding investment that will be made available.

I'd also like to just, in conclusion, understand the standing commission to consider the constitutional future, which the First Minister addressed in his opening remarks in his statement. Is that a sensible use of taxpayers' money, given that one of the remits that has been made available is to promote and support the work of the UK-wide constitutional commission being established by the UK Labour Party? It's perfectly right that the Welsh Labour Party, if it wishes to support such work, uses its own funds to do that, but is it right that taxpayers fund a specific party-political project that you identify in your terms of reference for such an independent constitutional committee that you've talked about in your statement? I appreciate for many people out there the focus will be on waiting times, the economy and education, but constitutional change does occupy a considerable amount of time and space within this Parliament, and I'd like to understand exactly why that is going to be informing UK Labour policy at taxpayers' expense. Thank you, Presiding Officer. 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:24, 15 June 2021

Llywydd, I thank the Member for those detailed questions. I'll do my best to answer as many of them as I can as quickly as I can. The 12,000 additional staff for the health service is, of course, a five-year commitment because these are new staff coming out of treatment—out of training, I beg your pardon. A nurse who began training two years ago will be available in the NHS this year; a nurse who began training in September of last year will not be trained for three years. So, this is a production line of doctors, nurses, physiotherapists, speech therapists, occupational therapists—all those many, many people that we rely on for the health service. Three years is the minimum length of time that it takes to train for any of those roles, and many of them are five and more years, and the investment that we make is an investment that doesn't see its payoff sometimes even into the Senedd term beyond the one that we are now beginning. So, those will be staff that will become available over the whole term, beginning immediately at the end of the current academic year. 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:25, 15 June 2021

The 1,800 tutors that the Member mentioned: 1,000 of them are already recruited by local authorities as a result of the funding that we provided earlier last year, when we provided further funding. Local authority colleagues have begun immediately to add to that recruitment, and, with the £19 million that my colleague Jeremy Miles announced just a couple of weeks ago, they will have the confidence of knowing that those staff will be paid for by the Welsh Government to do the job that we have asked them to do.

The reform of the school day and the school term is a fundamental change, in my view, not a matter just of responding to the pandemic. It's very much an issue on which I will hope to work with others in this Chamber, including the Member's own party, if there are ideas and possibilities that he'd like to contribute to that. He'll know that the pattern of the school year in Wales is still the pattern that was established at the end of the nineteenth century, and reflects an agricultural economy. Even when I was growing up in Carmarthen, the autumn half term, Llywydd, was known as potato week, and that's because I and others were sent out to collect potatoes on the farm during it. We need an approach to the school year and the school day that reflects the needs of a modern economy and contemporary Wales. We'll do that in partnership; there are a lot of people we will need to take with us on that journey, and, where there are Members in this Chamber and political parties who wish to make a contribution to it, then I'm very, very open to exploring that together to get a form of education that best suits today's needs.

The way to close the wage gap in Wales, Llywydd, is by improving productivity, and the Resolution Foundation, in a report that it published towards the end of the last term, said that Wales was the only part of the United Kingdom where there had been significant productivity gains in recent years. Now, we need to work from the help that that gives us. We need to work with our colleagues in private businesses, so that they put the investment in place that will allow those businesses to become more productive, because productivity is the key to a better-paid economy and it's central to our thinking about it. I'm a First Minister, not a soothsayer, Llywydd, and I'm not going to make guesses of what figures will look like five years from now.

On house building, the 20,000 social rented homes are the total number of rented homes at that social rented level that we expect to be created in this Senedd term, but it's certainly not the whole number of homes we expect to see built in Wales, which will be well more than that. And on empty homes, we will of course continue the successful work that began in the Valleys taskforce, with a significant amount of investment and hundreds of homes brought back into beneficial use as a result. I think we've learnt a formula there, and our ambition will be to extend that formula to other parts of our country.

The reform of council tax came up in questions earlier, Llywydd; it will not be easy to bring about, because any such reform, as I said, creates losers as well as winners, but the current form of council tax is too regressive, it's too unfair; it puts an unfair burden on the least well-off in our society to pay for the services from which we all benefit, and, using the work of the Institute for Fiscal Studies that was published towards the end of the last Senedd term, we will move forward with reform.

There'll be no changes to the voting system in local government next year, but the Act that this Senedd put on the statute book now allows local authorities to choose the electoral system that they think most reflects the needs and wishes of their own populations. And of course, there are parties in this Chamber who support different methods of election, and, where they're in charge, they'll now be able to make different choices if they wish to do so.

Forty-five thousand homes protected from flooding is the largest number that will ever have been protected during any Senedd term. So, it is not a small ambition, and I won't delay the discussion this afternoon, Llywydd, only to say that the rationale by which those homes have been identified, and the projects that are proposed, come through all local authorities and NRW colleagues, and are then endorsed and funded by the Welsh Government.

Finally, to the standing commission, its work will be available to all political parties and to all the different efforts that are made to fashion a future for the United Kingdom that allows the United Kingdom to go on succeeding. And whether that is the work of the select committees in the House of Lords and the House of Commons, who are currently involved in this work; whether it is work carried out in conversations with the UK Government, where we are still hopeful that we will conclude the inter-governmental review before many more weeks go by; or whether it is the work that Gordon Brown will be overseeing for the Labour Party, it is absolutely right that there is a commission here in Wales that brings together opinion from across Wales, within political parties and beyond, that fosters a proper debate here in Wales about our constitutional future, and makes sure that when other and wider debates are taking place, there is an authoritative source of advice that can be drawn on to make sure that the voice of Welsh people is properly heard in whatever forum that discussion may be being carried out.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 3:31, 15 June 2021

(Translated)

Thank you to the First Minister for today's statement. It's the privilege of any new Government to set the agenda, to set the tone and the ambition at the beginning of a new parliamentary term. And I noted that the First Minister took pride in the fact that it's only six weeks since the election. I happened to look at newspapers from 10 years ago, and it was six weeks that had passed then too. 

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 3:32, 15 June 2021

'Finally we get a hint of a programme from the First Minister',

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Those were the words of the Western Mail at that time. And the headline was,

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru

'Is that all you've got, First Minister?'

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

So, perhaps I'll ask something similar in a slightly different way. As a list of valid and praiseworthy ambitions, there's a great deal that I would agree with in this programme. There are many ideas that I recognise from Plaid Cymru's recent manifesto even, and the values, the fundamental values set out, are ones that I share: principles of collaboration and co-operation not competition; a nation based on fairness, where everyone achieves their potential; providing public services for the benefit of the public, not for profit, and so on; as well as creating a nation where the Welsh language is at its heart and at the heart of public life.

But the fundamental question I think I have here, in looking at this, is: what will be different in five years' time, even if the Government does manage to deliver against many of these pledges? We heard the First Minister referring to the programme as ambitious and radical. They are warm words, of course, but I fear that I remain unconvinced that it's this programme for government that will provide the new direction that Wales needs, the transformation that we need in order to create a more just and prosperous future. When it comes to the pandemic, Wales has shown the value of caution I think. But surely, when we're talking about the work of nation building, we have to move a little more quickly. We have to be smarter, yes, but we also have to work harder and to aim higher. 

I accept that much of this is setting out the framework. We will try and influence and try and strengthen that framework, and perhaps the First Minister could comment on something that isn't in the programme, on reforms to this Senedd, because it's within the activities of this Senedd that we will seek to influence that framework, but there is a question as to what the framework is for. There is an absence of targets in some fundamental areas. So, how can we measure success?

I've accused Labour Governments in the past of being too managerial in their approach, of being satisfied with administering Wales rather than offering a vision. So, how does this programme provide a gear change from managing Wales to transforming Wales? What hope is there in terms of transforming the lives of 67,000 people on waiting lists for social housing, the 70,000 people living in poverty who don't qualify for free school meals? So, where's the realisation of the scale of the crisis in terms of the impact of second homes on rural housing? Where are the statutory targets on safeguarding biodiversity? There are fundamental questions here, and we'll have opportunities in the next weeks and months, of course, to deal with those in some detail.

(Translated)

The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 3:35, 15 June 2021

Llywydd, this Parliament will—. Dirprwy Lywydd, this Parliament will understand what I mean when I, as a Plaid Cymru Member, say that I fear we are currently limiting our ambitions as a nation. We have different viewpoints on the potential offered by independence. In our vision of a Wales that can build its own relationships with other nations in these islands and beyond, we look towards ambitions that aren't limited by UK Government or Whitehall. We heard the First Minister say, 'We will use all the powers we have to tackle climate change.' I think it's an hour and a half ago he was saying how frustrated he was at the limitations being placed on our ability to tackle climate change by Whitehall rules on borrowing, for example. We can be more ambitious in that way.

If the Labour Government, like the Conservatives, are determined that it's by continuing, effectively, to give an ultimate veto to Westminster, to allow UK Government to set the parameters within which we can try to forge a new future for our nation, then it's up to this Government to show that a truly transformative programme for government can be put in place within that UK context. I'm afraid that that is not what I see in this programme for government, but, as I wish the First Minister well in embarking on the next five years, I guess it's up to his Government to prove me wrong.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:37, 15 June 2021

(Translated)

Thank you very much to Rhun ap Iorwerth for what he said at the outset of his speech, about the possibility to collaborate on a number of things that are in the programme where we have the same ideas, similar ideas, in the areas outlined in the Plaid Cymru manifesto. And I'm looking forward to collaborating where those possibilities arise. As Rhun ap Iorwerth said, Dirprwy Lywydd, Members will have to wait for some of the detail that he was requesting.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:38, 15 June 2021

Llywydd, it was nearly 18 months, I think, in the last Senedd term before the Government published its programme for government, and it was a deeply detailed document; it had all of those bells, whistles, targets, and so on, that he might have been looking for, and indeed we could have decided to do that this time. Because in order to produce a document of that sort, you need an extensive amount of time and effort. My own view is that it was better to put in front of the Senedd a programme for government that captured the essence of what we were committed to in the election, what we wish to achieve as a Government, particularly those things where a cross-Government effort is required to meet the urgency of the tasks that lie in front of us. And that is why, as Rhun ap Iorwerth very properly recognised, some of the detail will be provided by Ministers as the commitments in the manifesto are worked through and the practical actions that lie behind the programme for government can be fleshed out in the detail that he was asking for.

On the issue of independence, he's right, of course, that we do take a different view. I would not describe it as being limited by Westminster. I think the scope for independent action by this Senedd has never been more vividly illustrated than over the last 12 months. But I continue to believe that Wales's future is best secured by powerful devolution, entrenched devolution, devolution that cannot be stolen or turned back, but within a United Kingdom in which we voluntarily choose to pool our sovereignty for common purposes, which are better discharged by a population working together on those issues, and climate change would surely be one of those.

So, we probably won't need to rehearse the arguments that we set out at extensive length in front of the electorate only weeks ago, and where the electorate has delivered its verdict. We will go on defending this Senedd; we will go on making the case for extended devolution, where we think that is the right thing to do; we will certainly go on making the case for a different future for the United Kingdom; and the commission that we will set up, and the work that will be led by my colleague Mick Antoniw, will allow us to have the depth of understanding and the depth of support from the Welsh public that will give those ideas the credence that they deserve. 

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 3:41, 15 June 2021

Before I call other speakers, can I remind everyone that I fully appreciate the importance of the programme for government statement and that people want to ask questions about the future direction of the Government, but we have a limited time, and, therefore, I want to call everybody on the list? So, if you can keep yourselves to your minute and be succinct, I'd be very grateful. Rhianon Passmore.

Photo of Rhianon Passmore Rhianon Passmore Labour

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. First Minister, on behalf of the people of Islwyn, firstly, I wanted to briefly congratulate you on a stunning election victory in May, and for all that you have done personally in keeping Wales safe during the pandemic.

The unprecedented pandemic continues to rightly dominate all our minds and has changed all assumptions about how we will live, work and play in the years ahead, but simultaneously Wales continues to cope with 10 long years of underfunding and continued cuts to Welsh budgets, cuts to UK welfare support, cuts to trade and the Brexit downturn, all as we stare into the eye of the climate change storm. First Minister, the Climate Change Committee has warned that Governments must act swiftly and consciously in all public policy decision making. So, how, with this context, will Wales put climate change at the very heart of transforming our economy? And how will our Welsh Labour programme for government deliver a cleaner, greener and fairer country and a more equal society within those circumstances?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:42, 15 June 2021

Well, Llywydd, I thank Rhianon Passmore for that. I hope she'll recognise that climate change is at the heart of this Government, that we have created a ministry and a Minister to draw together all the different threads that the Welsh Government has to make the maximum contribution that we can to that agenda. We do need a UK Government that is equally committed to playing its part alongside us, and I look forward to the opportunities that there will be to discuss that and to work collaboratively and co-operatively with other Governments in the United Kingdom to make the difference that we all need to make, if we are to hand on the beautiful, but very fragile part of the globe that we are privileged to occupy in a state that would stand up to examination by those who come after us.

Photo of Peter Fox Peter Fox Conservative 3:43, 15 June 2021

Thank you, First Minister, for outlining your programme for government. You talked earlier about growing the Welsh economy and, indeed, there's a section there—I briefly had a chance to look at it—looking at the economy, and we welcome anything that drives the economy, especially in a bounce-back following this awful pandemic. But I'm sure you will agree with me that it's so important that Wales features on the world stage. I heard you saying about global networks earlier, but I don't see it in the programme as to how we're going to actually promote Wales on the world stage, because at the moment we're seeing GDP per capita at the lowest across the UK in Wales and we're seeing research and development investment at the lowest levels in Wales, hardly touching 1 per cent of R&D investment in the UK. And it's fundamentally important, because we have all of the ingredients in Wales to make us strong, yet we're not cementing them together in the right way, and we've lost many opportunities over many years through not doing things as fast as we should have done. Yet, Wales is home to globally recognised businesses and boasts huge economic credentials, including the compound semiconductor industry—

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 3:44, 15 June 2021

Can the Member come to a question now, please?

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour

Can you come to a question now?

Photo of Peter Fox Peter Fox Conservative

Right. Sorry, Deputy Presiding Officer. Well, the question is: First Minister, would you be focusing a lot harder on promoting Wales on an all-Wales and global scene so that we can actually reap the benefits of that opportunity and encourage inward investment? At the moment, we're not seen as a favourable place for investment because we haven't raised our profile enough on that global position and platform. I hope that we can do more in that regard going forward. Thank you, First Minister.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:45, 15 June 2021

I thank the Member for those important points. The international strategy doesn't feature in the programme for government, but that is because it is a piece of work that continues from the last Senedd term. I took the decision in forming the new Government that the international strategy would be the responsibility of the First Minister's office, for many of the reasons that Peter Fox has set out.

Just in the next couple of weeks, Llywydd, I will be meeting ambassadors from different parts of the world with very different trading relationships with Wales. The new ambassador from Poland will be visiting Wales in the next couple of weeks, and the new ambassador from Japan will be visiting Wales. There, I take a slightly different view from the Member, because in terms of inward investment, we have secured inward investment from Japan for more than 40 years, and it's not the sort of inward investment that is sometimes rightly criticised by others—investment that comes, takes the money and is gone as soon as the money runs out. Investment by Japanese companies in Wales is long-term investment, and we go on being successful in drawing that investment into Wales.

The programme for government does indeed look to a Wales that is a global player, that is a welcoming place, that is outward looking, where people from other parts of the world want to come and make their futures and to invest in the fantastic things that we have to offer, not simply in terms of facilities and infrastructure, but particularly the workforce we have to offer here in Wales, with the skills and the commitment that it offers to so many companies from different parts of the world.

Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 3:47, 15 June 2021

First Minister, it is a good, sound programme for government—[Interruption.] It is a good, sound programme for government on which there is a strong mandate to actually deliver this now, despite the criticism from the opposition benches a moment ago. I'm going to focus on just two areas that I'd like to, because we stand up and we ask you to go further, do it faster; we've got a five-year programme for government here. But the two areas I'd like to focus on are, one, buses and public transport, which I understand we might well have a debate next week on. It's how soon we can get to that point where we can actually get more local control of our bus services and related community transport services as well, so we can deliver that. And the second one is on the clean air Act. There's wide cross-party support now to actually move very fast on that, and to have good, measurable, ambitious targets within it. So, how soon could we see that as well? There are over 100 items in here, and as you say, there are more, actually, with individual Ministers as well that aren't even within this document. But on those two, I think you'd find good support—we just need to get on with it.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:48, 15 June 2021

Thanks to Huw Irranca-Davies for those questions, Llywydd. I chaired the meeting of the legislative programme board of the Welsh Government where we, with really heavy hearts, agreed that we could not take forward the bus reform Bill in the last year of the last Senedd term, and that was simply because of the circumstances we all know we were facing at the time, with so many people who we would have relied upon to work on those proposals with us—in local authorities, in the bus companies and so on—simply not able to come to the table to carry out that work. But we will be committed to reregulation of the bus service in Wales to make sure that it is run in the public interest in future. I look forward to having those discussions with the many sectors that have a direct interest in it before bringing proposals in front of the Senedd.

On the clean air Act, which we've discussed a number of times this afternoon, it's absolutely part of our commitment for five years, but I have to echo what the Member himself said—both the programme for government today and the legislative programme that I will bring in front of colleagues before the end of this term are a five-year commitment, and there will have to be a sense of how the programme is capable of being managed through the Senedd with all the many demands and ambitions that I know we have.

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 3:49, 15 June 2021

(Translated)

I would like to focus on one very important area, namely childcare and early years education—a sector that's crucially important for recovery post COVID. Children the length and breadth of Wales have missed an important formative part of their lives, and there is increasing evidence that this is where the educational focus should lie. But it’s disappointing to see an appalling lack of ambition in the programme for government. It makes no sense to keep childcare and early years education out of the education portfolio. Surely it should be at the heart of the work of the education Minister. Can you explain why your childcare policy doesn’t focus on the child? The positive impact of childcare is to create better access to the workplace for parents, and mothers particularly, but we do have to look at all of the other benefits for the child, and then it will become quite apparent that we need a long-term plan to expand this crucial provision. COVID has demonstrated that quite clearly.

 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:51, 15 June 2021

(Translated)

Llywydd, of course I agree with what Siân Gwenllian said at the end about the impact that COVID has had. This Government is very eager to do everything that we can to help children to get over the pandemic. That’s why we’ve spoken this afternoon about the investments that we’ve already announced during this term to help our schools and to help other people in this area to press ahead with the important work that they’re doing. Everything that we do in the childcare area relies on more than one Minister and, of course, we share or divide responsibilities among the members of the Government. We have to do that. Julie Morgan is responsible for a number of things that are relevant to the points made by Siân Gwenllian. She is pressing ahead with the work that she was doing in the last term—very important work—and she’s going to do it with the new Minister for education and other Ministers in the Government. At the end of the day, there are choices to be made in terms of who is responsible for things on paper, but the purpose of the programme for government is to show people how this Government is going to work on very important subjects where there is more than one Minister, and how the whole Government can contribute to the important issues that Siân Gwenllian has referred to this afternoon.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 3:53, 15 June 2021

(Translated)

First Minister, I welcome this afternoon’s statement and I welcome the radical vision that runs through it. It is one thing to present a lengthy, dry document, but there is something different about presenting a document that describes a radical journey for Wales. I welcome the document that we’ve had sight of today. I welcome not just the vision contained with it, but the radical principles that underpin it too. I do think that it’s a powerful programme as a result of that.

I have two questions. I welcome the fact that you’ve made a clear statement that you’re going to support the Tech Valleys programme in my constituency, but in terms of the Valleys more broadly, is there anything contained within the document that will act as a framework that can deliver policy across the Valleys? Because what we’ve failed to do in the past is not a failure of vision or a commitment to work in the Valleys, but the ability to deliver. I know that there is a suggestion in various sections of the document that there are democratic and accountable bodies that you want to create and I’m eager to understand more about that.

My final question—and I can see the Deputy Presiding Officer, even without my glasses—is: how will we know when you have delivered against that vision? Because the question that Rhun ap Iorwerth asked was a very important one. We don’t want a civil service document here; we need a political document, and I agree with you on that. But we also need a document that enables us as a Senedd to create accountability and to ensure that we understand and the people of Blaenau Gwent know when you have reached your objectives and when you have delivered against your ambitions.

 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:55, 15 June 2021

(Translated)

I thank Alun Davies for what he said about the document. If we're going to be radical, in my opinion it was important to bring this document before the Senedd as soon as possible. When we do it that way, as I explained to Rhun ap Iorwerth, it's not possible to include everything—every way of working and delivery and targets and so forth—within the same document. But, Ministers will appear before the Senedd and they will provide more details and they will be accountable, as Alun Davies said, to the Senedd and to people outwith the Senedd throughout Wales. We're still discussing, Deputy Presiding Officer, within the Government, the best way of pressing ahead with issues in the Valleys and to press ahead with the work that Alun Davies did in the previous term. There are a number of Ministers within the Government who represent the Valleys, and that will be a help to us. We're still discussing the best ways of proceeding with that.

Photo of Janet Finch-Saunders Janet Finch-Saunders Conservative 3:56, 15 June 2021

I would like, in welcoming this programme for government, to thank and congratulate the electors of Aberconwy for returning me to this place with the largest majority I've held.

On a more serious note, you explained that you would make sure, First Minister, that our farmers have a key role to play in our green future. However, the programme for government doesn't really address the issues that are facing them. The programme states, and I quote, that you will

'Forbid the culling of badgers to control the spread of TB in cattle.'

That isn't a strong enough statement. The Welsh Government has been issuing a tiny number of licences to mark, trap and take badgers to prevent the spread of disease on farms that have a TB chronic breakdown in a herd. For example, in 2020, you only issued seven licences. Compare that with the startling fact that over 10,000 cattle, in the prime of their productive lives, continue to be culled every year in Wales due to TB. The comprehensive approach adopted in England has seen an average reduction in the incidence of TB of at least 40 per cent in areas that have completed at least four years of badger culling. Just across the border in Gloucestershire, there has been a 66 per cent decline in new TB breakdowns. So, the prohibition on culling badgers is not supported by the evidence—

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 3:58, 15 June 2021

Can the Member ask the question now, please?

Photo of Janet Finch-Saunders Janet Finch-Saunders Conservative

Yes, of course. That will result in infected badgers struggling—. Yesterday, I met with farmers and other colleagues in this place, and they're really upset, because Aberconwy now has gone from a low to an intermediary state. So, First Minister, when are you, and when are your Ministers, and when is the Wales vet going to acknowledge that we have a real problem with bovine TB and we have to address it and address it dramatically? Work with the farmers, stop working against them, and let's bring this to a satisfactory end. Thank you.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

Llywydd, it's a brave Member of the Conservative Party who decides to raise the interests of farmers on the floor of the Senedd this afternoon, when their Government has just signed a trade deal with Australia that will damage farmers in Wales without any doubt at all. I saw the document that the UK Government had published on the Australia trade deal. It dealt with the fate of farmers in a single sentence. It deals with the export of swimwear to Australia at equal length. I think that just tells you something about where the priorities of—[Interruption]. And our programme for government will have to deal with the impact of your Government's choices on the fate of farmers here in Wales.

If I've learnt anything about TB, Dirprwy Lywydd, it's that there is no point in just trying to trade statistics about it, because for every statistic that you will quote, there will be a counter-statistic that can be—[Interruption.] And the science behind it is disputed as well, as she knows. This is for sure: the reason why low area statuses have moved up is because of the importation of TB by farmers buying infected cattle and bringing them into the area. That is the single greatest reason why low-incidence areas have moved up that very sad hierarchy. The culling of badgers will not happen in Wales—just be clear about that. That was in the Labour Party manifesto; it was endorsed by the electorate. It will not happen. And if we want a serious debate, it is better for farmers to recognise that and to talk with us about the things that we can do, rather than complaining about things that are not going to happen. Inoculation is a far better long-term solution to it. That is why we have employed Professor Glyn Hewinson, one of the world's leading figures in this field, here in Wales—brought to Wales in order to assist us with this agenda—and the ideas that he and other colleagues in Aberystwyth are working on to provide a vaccine against the awful disease that is TB in cattle, an awful disease that is distressing—deeply distressing—for those farmers who have to deal with it. But the way of dealing with it is through the new methods that we are working on here in Wales, and not by harking after things that are simply not going to be part of our response here.

Photo of Vikki Howells Vikki Howells Labour 4:01, 15 June 2021

Thank you, First Minister. Three short questions. Firstly, I welcome the commitment to proceed with a basic income pilot. Are you able to provide any more detail on this, in particular around geographical criteria? I know that Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council has expressed a willingness to work with Welsh Government on a pilot, so I'd be grateful if that could be considered. Secondly, I welcome the commitment to take action around coal tips, however, as many of the levers aren't devolved, what work is being undertaken to ensure that interventions are both substantive and lead to a real solution of the issue? Finally, will the Welsh Government continue to progress plans for a vacant land tax this Senedd term? 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 4:02, 15 June 2021

Llywydd, I thank Vikki Howells for those very specific questions. I'm grateful to those local authorities that have come forward offering to assist us with a basic income pilot, offering to do it in their own areas. As the Member knows, we are working on ideas to involve looked-after children, young people leaving the care of public authorities, as the way in which we could mount a basic income pilot here in Wales, and I'm grateful to Rhondda Cynon Taf council and other local authority leaders who have come forward to offer to assist us with it.

I hope Members here will have had a chance to see the Law Commission's report published last week on coal tip safety. It's a sobering document. It touches on many of the things we've talked about this afternoon about the impact of climate change and rainfall in Valleys communities and the fact that standards of construction of coal tips, which were safe enough in their day, may well not be safe enough to go on protecting those communities from the impact of weather events, intensive rainfall and so on. It's a very, very good read, if anybody has a chance to look at it. It does rely on working with the UK Government, and let me say, I'm grateful for the fact that I've been able to co-chair, with the Secretary of State for Wales, the group that we have got together to work on coal tip safety. It was through that group that the possibility of Law Commission work was raised and then funded by my colleague, Lesley Griffiths when she was responsible for that area.

I wish I had as much positive stuff to say on the vacant land tax. The process we have attempted to run is the process set out in the Government of Wales Act 2017, passed by a Conservative Government. It's that Act that lays out how we can draw down the authority to create a vacant land tax here in Wales. We chose a vacant land tax, Dirprwy Lywydd, as you will remember, to test that machinery, with a relatively uncontentious and very specific piece of legislation. Since the election in December 2019, we have faced, I think, a blanket refusal by the UK Government to operate the machinery that they themselves set down. We'd had reasonable co-operation under the Theresa May Government and we were making I thought very good progress in getting an agreement with the Treasury and others on it. It's been a blank wall since December 2019, and that's deeply disappointing and I think it's preventing us from being able to take forward an idea that other parts of the United Kingdom would have been able to learn from, using that living laboratory that devolution provides, in which we can all try different things and then learn from one another.

Photo of Heledd Fychan Heledd Fychan Plaid Cymru 4:05, 15 June 2021

(Translated)

I'm very pleased to see the intention of safeguarding coal tips through the introduction of legislation; I've also read the Law Commission consultation paper, which was quite horrifying, if truth be told. But, as we know, it takes time to bring forward legislation, and there's real concern in many communities that we could see further landslides, as we saw in Tylorstown in February 2020, unless there is further, urgent action taken.

One community that's extremely concerned is Ynyshir, where there are plans to build wind turbines on top of old tips, which would create further risks of flooding. So, what assurances can you give to communities such as Ynyshir that the Government will learn the lessons necessary and take urgent action to secure the safety of current coal tips before the legislation is in place?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 4:06, 15 June 2021

(Translated)

Dirprwy Lywydd, I agree with the Member. Of course, we will have to take the time to work on the report by the commission and the number of other things that we want to do, and the Act will be on the list of things that we want to do during this term, when I have an opportunity to make a statement on the legislative programme before the end of the term.

Today, I'm trying to focus on the programme for government. I don't have a specific answer on the specific points that the Member has raised in her question, but there will be an opportunity for us to consider the points that she has raised as part of the work that we've set out in the programme.

Photo of Jenny Rathbone Jenny Rathbone Labour 4:07, 15 June 2021

I thank you for this programme to ensure that the world we leave our children is one that will not be a nightmare and will be worth inheriting. So, as we endeavour to tread more lightly on our production, consumption and waste of the resources of this world, I wondered whether you could tell us what the Government's plans are to ensure that private house builders are building the zero-carbon homes that we will need in future so we don't have to retrofit them.

I wonder whether you could tell us how well-being hubs, whether they're in practical reality, like the Maelfa well-being hub in Llanedeyrn, which will bring the important reform of primary care, general practitioners' services, pharmacy, social care and mental health all together—how will that be done virtually where well-being hubs have not physically been created yet?

Lastly, I wondered whether you could say a little bit more about the blue revolution. I know that David Melding would've reminded us about the wonders of the Welsh coast, but in light of the warnings that our oceans are in the worst state since humans started exploiting them—the words of Sylvia Earle, the first female chief scientist of the United States oceanography administration—I just wondered how we can do a bit more than the very welcome idea of supporting restoration of sea grass and salt marsh habitats.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 4:08, 15 June 2021

Llywydd, thank you very much to Jenny Rathbone. Of course, our ambition for zero-carbon homes extends beyond the public sector homes that will be built during this Senedd term. One of the reasons for putting housing alongside planning and alongside energy in the portfolio of the new Minister is to allow her to have all of the levers she needs, including further reform, as I believe we will need to see, in building-standards work to make sure that we are not creating houses today that we will then have to retrofit in the future.

There are Cardiff Members here who envy the Maelfa development and wish that we had similar things in our own parts of the city, but our twenty-first century surgeries programme in the programme for government is a programme to create those well-being hubs in more parts of Wales. In the meantime, in the virtual way that Jenny Rathbone referred to, we’ll be working through the 64 primary care clusters we have in Wales, and who, I think, have done so much to support and to energise the primary care response that we’ve seen during the pandemic.

And finally, in relation to the marine environment, Dirprwy Lywydd, I should report that there was a meeting of the British Irish Council last week where I was able to put on the record the new programme of work that we have agreed with the Republic of Ireland—a five-year programme of work—much of it focused on that shared marine environment that is the Irish sea. We’re committed to working with the Republic on an agenda that brings researchers from our universities together and third sector organisations together to make sure that we use that fantastic environment for the renewable energy that we will need for the future. But we do it in a way that fully respects the unique environment and the diversity of that marine environment where its occupants know nothing about, Llywydd, whether they are swimming in Welsh waters, or Irish waters, or waters in between.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 4:11, 15 June 2021

Diolch, Prif Weinidog, and can I thank Members for their contributions this afternoon? Looking at the timescales, we’ve managed to get everybody speaking. But if you want to see a good example of how to ask questions in the timescales, look at Vikki Howells and Heledd Fychan who both got their questions well in within a minute. Okay.